Doping in Football

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Post by The Franchise Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:14 pm

http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

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Post by Eivindo Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:59 pm

Surag wrote:
@Eivindo wrote:we are obviously doped, or we wouldnt be tearing it up like we have in recent years hmm

dont think we have players showing anything out of the ordinary when it comes to running, only fulllbacks are insane, but thats for most top teams (ofc isnt evidence enough, but that would be some lousy dope)

Read the article which Franchise posted and look at that document carefully.It clearly shows 40 GH units supplied to this entity named 'Milan' dated back in the year 2005.

And where was Milan during that period ?They were one of the most dominant teams in the CL and you also went on to win it eventually in 2007.

If Rsoc is the codeword for Real Sociedad ,i think people would naturally assume the 'Milan' codeword in the document referring to AC Milan.

let the spanish read us the names then, oh i forgot, it will strip the nation of its recent glory in football :coffee:
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Post by S Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:16 pm

From that article:

I worked with Spanish first and second division clubs. Sometimes directly with the footballers themselves, sometimes by sharing my knowledge with the teams doctors. I had an offer from an Italian club but I turned it down.

Fuentes refused to reveal which clubs he had supplied with doping:

I can’t tell which clubs, I have received death threats. I was told that if I told certain things, my family and myself could have serious problems. There are sports against which you cannot go against, because they have access to very powerful legal means to defend themselves. And it could also cost the current chief of the sport his post.

Le Monde in 2006 claimed to have obtained two sheets of paper from Dr Fuentes’ Canary Islands residence. According to the French publication, the documents reveal that Real Madrid and FC Barcelona were making use of Fuentes’s services. They show, for example, that the main objective of FC Barcelona was the Champions League in May, which it won, as well as having the players peak for the World Cup. The training programs include circles and ‘IG’ symbols that correspond to preparation or rest periods. These are the same symbols that we’ve recently seen used by Dr Fuentes in his plans for Real Sociedad

Very interesting hmm

Spoiler:
Barcelona deny link to banned doctor Luis García del Moral who worked with Lance Armstrong and US Postal

Doping in Football - Page 3 FRgfxS7

hmm

All in all it was a fantastic read i have to say.Great article.
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Post by Ion Creanga Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:56 pm

Spain is dopping??? how shocking, i thought it must have been a coincidence that they dominated football, basketball, handbal, cycling, tennis all of a sudden...
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Post by Prometheus Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:51 am

damn, missed this thread entirely so far! huge huge follower of cycling so have been following the puerto case closely!

1 major thing il say is that having watched doping scandals and positive-testing cyclists for years now, when looking for doping look for immediate improvements in recovery and stamina! if a team is consistently running out of steam for the last 20 mins of each game one season comes back the next one and can go full pelt to the 90th minute then thats when you start suspecting them of doping!

in the case of ronaldo at barca, he wasnt doping then cos his physic and stamina were the exact same as when he was playing for Ajax, but when he moved to Inter its almost certain that he was put on a course of steroids going by how quickly and dramatically he bulked up!

in the case of Barca and Spain NT doping atm, its possible but unlikely seeing as the way they play also explains their ability to seemingly constantly press! if you're only pressing for a few seconds each time and then relaxing on the ball then you have loads of recovery! same goes for why theres rarely explosive sprinting counter attacks from spanish players or at Barca! why waste the energy when the normal pass and move works just as well!

ever watch a messi camera(camera focussed on messi for an entire game) and you'll see this in evidence! messi steals recovery periods in every game! it means that when it comes to him having to make a run or press, he's nearly fully charged!

anyway, at the end of the day i honestly believe that match fixing and corruption will always be a bigger threat to football then doping, its not an out-and-out physical battle like cycling is! regardless of how fit you are, if you've got poor technique and skills you'll always be exposed by a more talented but less fit player
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Post by Prometheus Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:54 am

also, one last thing to remember about barca is that for 4 years their manager was Pep, who fought tooth and nail to prove that he was innocent of doping when he was banned when playing for brescia and he was proved right!

do you seriously think a guy like that would honestly go to the extreme lenghts of effort and time that he did to prove to the world that he hadnt doped would then sanction a full doping program at his club? doesnt seem likely given everything we know about him as a person...
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Post by rwo power Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:18 pm

@Prometheus wrote:do you seriously think a guy like that would honestly go to the extreme lenghts of effort and time that he did to prove to the world that he hadnt doped would then sanction a full doping program at his club? doesnt seem likely given everything we know about him as a person...
IIRC, this is right what Lance Armstrong did, only that he finally did cave in under the amount of evidence heaped upon him.
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Post by Prometheus Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:34 pm

completely different cases! for years there was accusations of doping and of intimidation laid at armstrongs door! anyone watching cycling or who knew what to look for, knew that he was doping! its just that the UCI is so corrupt that it refused to acknowledge the evidence and let him become almost untouchable!

in fact, if it hadnt been for the way that Armstrong treated Floyd Landis after he had served his doping ban, then the whole doping case would never have been exposed!

all Armstrong had to do was help Landis find a new team to cycle for, which wouldve taken about 10mins and 1-2 phone calls, but instead he chose to cut him off and treat him like sh!t!

Guardiola on the other hand, was tested positive for nandrolene and banned before his B-sample was opened but went on to insist he was inncocent, force them to open his B-sample and proved to them that not only was he way way way way under the natural limits of nandrolene produced by the human body, but that their doping test were in fact defective for this test and theyve since upgraded them!

to put it into context, Linford Christie tested postitive for nandrolene when he was 39(?) and he was 1000 times over the limit, and 10000 times higher than guardiolas!



armstrong has unfortunately turned everybody into a cynic when it comes to athletes and doping but the main damage he did was through the way he forced others to dope as well or forced them out of the sport!
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Post by rwo power Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:09 pm

@Prometheus wrote:armstrong has unfortunately turned everybody into a cynic when it comes to athletes and doping but the main damage he did was through the way he forced others to dope as well or forced them out of the sport!
That's unfortunately indeed true. BTW, I find it ludicrous that it seems that Jan Ullrich obviously will get away pretty much unscathed, even though there are tons of suspicions about him as well.
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Post by Prometheus Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:48 pm

well ullrich did get banned for drug use and everyone knows he was doped when he won the tour de france! just a shame that he gets to hang onto the medal and jersey really! problem is that you cant look back at any top 5 finishers for the last 20 years and say 100% that theyre clean! tbh i have serious questions over the performance of the Sky team last year and the way key riders were able to stay on form day in, day out for 3 weeks without a single bad day! is horribly reminiscint of the US Postal team performances!!
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Post by rwo power Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:09 am

My pet peeve about Jan Ullrich is that he never admitted anything. And IIRC there was some payment of a substantial sum as settlement and in exchange there should be no further investigations - that's what really upsets me.
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Post by Prometheus Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:20 am

well this is what theyre trying to rectify with the proposed clean slate idea! anyone can admit to having doped up to 2006 without facing a ban! not sure how it would work with regards to the records of race winners but at least it would create an atmosphere of a fresh, clear start! as it is theres still that law of omerta existing even with the riders who've long retired and thats not going to be easily changed! they've been brought up in and lived in a world of silence at all times about doping! any cyclist in the peloton at the moment could give you a list of all the people doping atm but they wont! just not how its done and thats what has to be changed!
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Post by S Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:29 pm

http://www.goal.com/en/news/745/fifa/2013/03/20/3841533/on-trial-sports-doctor-fuentes-willing-to-name-clients
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Post by harhar11 Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:02 pm

Eufemiano Fuentes: Real Madrid owes me money

Doping in Football - Page 3 TCp90

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Doping in Football - Page 3 Empty Juventus used drugs in CL final '96 ?

Post by delaurentishotz Wed May 22, 2013 8:47 am

http://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid=188267

It is in Dutch.

In the '90s Juventus was succesful because atleast 90 players were drugged.
Clubdoctor Riccardo Agricola got suspended in 2004.

Giuseppe d’Onofrio Allessandro Donati 2 dopingscientists confirm that Juve used drugs.
After searching the Juventus offices in 98 they found documents that the chances are very high Juve players got drugged with Epo.


Officially no Juve player has ever been found guilty of using drugs.
And there is no evidence to support Juve have used drugs in the CL final.
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Post by Clockwork Orange Wed May 22, 2013 8:57 am

Yes. They did use drugs. In fact our management called for their champions League medal in 1996 to be rescinded. Does this actually surprise you? Throughout their history Juventus have been cheating and going through scandal after scandal. Not only that, 2 of the club doctors were actually jailed.

It is a shameful institution and the cries for their 30th title should continue to fall in deaf ears.
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Post by nasir6371 Wed May 22, 2013 9:16 am

probably not the only team to do so in CL football during that time, but nonetheless, Juve Cheated Rolling Eyes


Spoiler:
Can't spell Integrity without Inter :wub:
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Post by Kaladin Wed May 22, 2013 9:22 am

You cant spell disinteresting without Inter too
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Post by Toffer Harley Wed May 22, 2013 9:37 am

there is no drug against lars ricken
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Post by Casciavit Wed May 22, 2013 10:12 am

Juve are cheaters, they should rot in Serie C1(Lega Pro) and get all their trophies rescinded.

On a serious note:

Are we supposed to act surprised? Most teams in the past 'doped' their players before an important fixture and probably still do. As much as I would have liked to take a decent dig at Juve, they weren't the only team to have 'doped' their players. People should be ready too accept the fact that their favorite player or team probably have used performance enhancing drugs.

Also Clockwork your Ajax isn't much better, they have used performance enhancing drugs as well Laughing Especially in the 60's and 70's Laughing
If you don't believe me Clockwork here it is:

Defender Barry Hulshoff, who won the European Cup with Ajax in 1971, 1972 and 1973, confessed that that he and his teammates at Ajax occasionaly received pills from Docter Rolink.

I can remember well, a season or five ago, just before the away game against Real Madrid, we received a white pill, and also something in a capsule. We called it Hagelslag [chocolate sprinkles] I have no idea what it was. You felt very strong and never were out of oxygen. The bad thing was that you lost all saliva in your mouth.

Delaurentishotz your Inter isn't any better as well, especially in your golden years in the 60's. Ferruccio the brother of Herrera spoke about the doping practice Herrera used at Inter, in his autobiography.

Herrera provided pills that were to be placed under our tongues. He used to experiment on us bench players only to later give them to the first team players. My brother Sandro suggested to me that if I had no intention of taking them, I should just run to the toilet and spit them out. Eventually Herrera found out and decided to dilute them in coffee. From that day on “Il Caffè Herrera” became a habit at Inter.

Milan have probably 'doped' their players as well, I won't try to deny it.

If you want some more recent examples:

In the early 2000's
Their was one doping case, where several players were caught having used the anabolic steroid nandrolone. World class players at the time to have used it include: Jaap Stam, Edgar Davids, Frank de Boer, and Josep Guardiola. But of course, they blamed it on ‘contaminated supplements’.
Guardiola’s doctor at his then club Brescia, Ramon Segura, worked as head doctor for FC Barcelona during Pep’s reign at the club.
hmm

And Dr Fuentes may have well played a major role in Spain's success, outside of the pitch.

What I'm trying to get at is most teams have given their players performance enhancing drugs. Especially before an important fixture. Whether it's was the Germans, Italians, French, Brazilians, Argentinians, English or any other country. They have probably all used some sort of performance enhancing drugs.

As big as a shame it is, it is what it is. I don't like nor do I support it. But like I said earlier in this post, people would be fooling themselves if they think their club has not ever 'doped' their players before. Or whether they think the players of their club have never used a performance enhancing drug. Whether it was back then or now, it probably still does happen.

Also all these examples have come from: http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

It's a great read, suggest you guys look at it. For those who haven't.

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Post by Eivindo Wed May 22, 2013 11:53 am

Not that there is a great logic in what Im going to say: In some big games, u see a certain side having players running with an intensity you have seldom seen before, makes you question is this team even mortal, or can it even be beaten? Like when I saw Inter winning the CL, Barca steamrolling, and now Bayern. Its like the intensity is on another planet. Now, u can probably find statistics showing they actually didnt run as much, but when you see it live, I mean with Robben and Ribery working as LBs and RBs its quite impressive. They have the energy of doing this week in and week out against all Bundesliga teams too, or just against Barca?

One would think that stamina is something all teams in this world could be pretty similar at right, but some teams just look like slacking as opposed to other big teams when they meet, and it comes out as some sort of a shock when you see the difference. Ofc tactics, motivation etc are a major factor aswell, which will make it silly to question a team in the first place.

Just a few thoughts touching upon the matter Smile

Seriously though, we all know the drug testing in football is laughable, and only recently in Spain they decided to destroy evidence that might lead to their pride being taken, something Italians should have done back in 05, except in Italy everybody hates eachother so much that it goes before any national pride. (though it wasnt about drugs in that case)
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Post by rwo power Wed May 22, 2013 11:55 am

By the way, you might want to take a look at the discussion in the Clean Debate section, too: http://www.goallegacy.net/t27837-doping-in-football

I might merge this thread with it as it fits nicely there and it is a topic best discussed in a calm way without jeers and trolling.
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Post by Eivindo Wed May 22, 2013 12:22 pm

@harhar11 wrote:Eufemiano Fuentes: Real Madrid owes me money

Doping in Football - Page 3 TCp90

What about Barca, or they alrdy got what they payed for? tongue
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Post by Grooverider Wed May 22, 2013 3:31 pm

Juve cant manage to go a season without trying to bend the rules Evil or Very Mad
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed May 22, 2013 3:44 pm

Mmmm I love the taste of dat hate

Nomnomnomnom.


But seriously, most teams Doped and Ajax were terrible for doping.
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Post by RealGunner Wed May 22, 2013 3:51 pm

Zeman was banging about this back in 98 lol
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