Utds value soars past $3b

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Post by free_cat Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:55 am

cyberman wrote:OF course value matters when we've got shares on the freaking market.
Basic economics 101
Player values doesn't matter a squat freecat, it's only valuable to the buyer. What's the point in messi being worth 150m if nobody buys him? What if he runs down his contract and is on a free?
Not realistic to say the least

Player values wins you trophies. Football is about entertaining and winning, not about having pricey assets.

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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:09 am

free_cat wrote:
Certainly that's not the case. Perhaps they apply some updating criteria, but seeing the valuations Barça is given (around 1.00 milion, with the squad being valued at around 500 or more milion) I can assure you that it is not an exhaustive market value analysis.

Of course it's not an exhaustive market analysis, but let's not pretend that you didn't say that they used 1950s prices, which you did. Very Happy
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Post by Lex Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:11 am

Giant institution in high valuation shocker
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Post by free_cat Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:27 am

VivaStPauli wrote:
free_cat wrote:
Certainly that's not the case. Perhaps they apply some updating criteria, but seeing the valuations Barça is given (around 1.00 milion, with the squad being valued at around 500 or more milion) I can assure you that it is not an exhaustive market value analysis.

Of course it's not an exhaustive market analysis, but let's not pretend that you didn't say that they used 1950s prices, which you did. Very Happy

If Barça was a German club, you would know that Barça owns a huge piece of land in the midle of Barcelona with 2 football stadiums, 2 sports pavilion, a football pitch, La Masia, parking spaces, the most visited museum in Barcelona, a building with offices, and the second nike store in revenue in the world. We also have a sports city outside the city and several other pieces of land in an around Barcelona. Our players alone are valued at around 500 milion € and our brand is Top 3, as mentioned. Considering all these, it's impossible that clubs like Arsenal or Madrid double our value, and Manchester triples it.

They are obviously making a big mistake asessing the club's value and I'm pretty sure it's in the real state department. Considering that in Barça's books, the real state is valued at 1950s prices + works I'm pretty sure they are using that figure as base value and this is what makes them be very far off in their valuation.
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Post by Swanhends Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:43 am

free_cat wrote:They are obviously making a big mistake asessing the club's value and I'm pretty sure it's in the real state department. Considering that in Barça's books, the real state is valued at 1950s prices + works I'm pretty sure they are using that figure as base value and this is what makes them be very far off in their valuation.

They aren't making any mistake, they're following the rules of accounting

If you want to argue that accounting doesn't properly value a business, thats a different argument (though valid)

but current accounting doesn't assign a value to employees or brand (excl. goodwill), while land is carried at cost

everyones playing by the same rules here

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Post by free_cat Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:54 am

Swanhends wrote:
free_cat wrote:They are obviously making a big mistake asessing the club's value and I'm pretty sure it's in the real state department. Considering that in Barça's books, the real state is valued at 1950s prices + works I'm pretty sure they are using that figure as base value and this is what makes them be very far off in their valuation.

They aren't making any mistake, they're following the rules of accounting

If you want to argue that accounting doesn't properly value a business, thats a different argument (though valid)

but current accounting doesn't assign a value to employees or brand (excl. goodwill), while land is carried at cost

everyones playing by the same rules here


You are right saying that accounting rules are that real state value is the purchase value.

However, you don't use that accounting value when you are making a valuation of a business or a club. That's basic stuff.
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Post by Swanhends Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:58 am

free_cat wrote:you don't use that accounting value when you are making a valuation of a business or a club. That's basic stuff.

If you don't use accounting, then what do you use?

The main ways to value a company are accounting standards or market cap

Only other option is to claim all valuations are subjective (which negates any attempt at objective valuation)

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Post by free_cat Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:06 am

Swanhends wrote:
free_cat wrote:you don't use that accounting value when you are making a valuation of a business or a club. That's basic stuff.

If you don't use accounting, then what do you use?

The main ways to value a company are accounting standards or market cap

Only other option is to claim all valuations are subjective (which negates any attempt at objective valuation)


When you are valuing the assets of a company, in this case real state, you value them at market price.
You search for transfers of similar assets in huge data bases and value the asset at a similar price.


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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:37 am

free_cat wrote:
They are obviously making a big mistake asessing the club's value and I'm pretty sure it's in the real state department. Considering that in Barça's books, the real state is valued at 1950s prices + works I'm pretty sure they are using that figure as base value and this is what makes them be very far off in their valuation.

Yeah, sure, because it obviously can't be true that ManU has a higher value than Barca Rolling Eyes

Grow up.

You can say what you want about Forbes, even they will know to use the same ways of calculating the values of all clubs they compare. And they will have accounted for the price fluctuation in real estate.

And what's that dig at German clubs? If Barca was a German club, it wouldn't have any debt, get far less TV-money, and the players would have to pay proper taxes, so I don't get the comparison. Also the country the club is in wouldn't be broke, just to annoy you. :coffee:
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Post by Bellabong Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:59 am

What is this interest in shares you keep going on about Cyber?

Only 3-5,000 shares are being traded per day, which is miniscule and proof of lack of interest and value. They've been sitting under way under IPO value for several months and only recently broke even with the tiny amount of trading. In comparison, 22 million Apple shares are traded per day on average.
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Post by free_cat Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:21 am

VivaStPauli wrote:
free_cat wrote:
They are obviously making a big mistake asessing the club's value and I'm pretty sure it's in the real state department. Considering that in Barça's books, the real state is valued at 1950s prices + works I'm pretty sure they are using that figure as base value and this is what makes them be very far off in their valuation.

Yeah, sure, because it obviously can't be true that ManU has a higher value than Barca Rolling Eyes

Grow up.

You can say what you want about Forbes, even they will know to use the same ways of calculating the values of all clubs they compare. And they will have accounted for the price fluctuation in real estate.

And what's that dig at German clubs? If Barca was a German club, it wouldn't have any debt, get far less TV-money, and the players would have to pay proper taxes, so I don't get the comparison. Also the country the club is in wouldn't be broke, just to annoy you. :coffee:

I wonder if you read what I post or just because I owned your ridiculous germancentrism so many time you just post random crap after my posts?

Off course United, Arsenal or Madrid can have a value higher than Barcelona, but definitely not 2 or 3 times higher like these lists show. So they are making a mistake. Grow up, he says. rofl

The german thing, was not a ditch at German clubs but at you, that have no idea whatsover of anything outside your precious germany. You don't know the huge value Barça assets have.
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:25 am

Apparently not, though, since United is 2 or 3 times higher in value than Barca. :coffee:
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Post by Highburied Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:31 am

worms wrote:
highburied wrote:
worms wrote:

LOL,typical SKY propaganda.

Have you been in England?

I live in England,I was born in England,My Parents are English,My ancestors are English,I am English.

Beat that. Wink

I was hoping you r speaking as a biased latino fan but no i cant really beat this, its ur opinion that latins are deeper in football.
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Post by TalkingReckless Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:04 am

not any different then the valuation of facebook being 60b+. is facebook really worth 60b+? no...
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Post by B-Mac Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:10 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Making money and winning trophies Proud

Also looool at the passion comment, especially in a United thread.


well that was an intelligent post :coffee:

let me go generalize your whole fan base now for being idiots like you brb
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Post by RealGunner Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:31 am

worms wrote:Who cares about so called "value".

The only valuable things when judging clubs are trophies,players,history,transfer budget and fans.

Barcelona beats United on all of this criteria.Maybe United has more fans in Asia because of how they have marketed over there but Barca has much more real fans in South America,a place were there is football culture and a place which is an important place in football history.

Not seen a more stupid most than this since JNC was here
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Post by RealGunner Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:31 am

worms wrote:
highburied wrote:
worms wrote:
highburied wrote:

No country and culture in the world beats England in terms of passion for football.

Out of subject: you are annoying! Wink


LOL,typical SKY propaganda.

Have you been in England?

I live in England,I was born in England,My Parents are English,My ancestors are English,I am English.

Beat that. Wink

Then why do you support a foreign club ?
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Post by worms Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:35 am

RealGunner wrote:
worms wrote:
highburied wrote:

Have you been in England?

I live in England,I was born in England,My Parents are English,My ancestors are English,I am English.

Beat that. Wink

Then why do you support a foreign club ?

Because Barcelona play the best football and have the best players.Plus we have a great history.

I support an English club too don't forget.

Why do you support Arsenal when there is barely any English players?How does your team represent your English heritage and culture? I am assuming you are English.

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Post by RealGunner Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:37 am

worms wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
worms wrote:
highburied wrote:

Have you been in England?

I live in England,I was born in England,My Parents are English,My ancestors are English,I am English.

Beat that. Wink

Then why do you support a foreign club ?

Because Barcelona play the best football and have the best players.Plus it has a great history.

I support an English club too.

Why do you support Arsenal when there is barely any English players?How does your team represent your English heritage and culture? I am assuming you are English.


It's my local club. I don't support Madrid as a side dish because they are winning trophies or play good football just because my team is struggling.

When pep goes to bayern and they play football as good as barcelona ( or try to ) then i assume you will support Barca, bayern and Liverpool ?

That's basically = glory hunting.

Support your local club
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Post by Vlad the Impaler Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:38 am

This topic turned into a joke. :coffee:
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Post by worms Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:46 am

Why should I support my local club when there is hardly any local players in the team and I can't get a ticket to go the game because they prefer to make money of foreigners and people from down south?

I don't know how you can call Arsenal your local team when there is only 3 British players in your whole squad.

When Carragher retires we will only have 1 local player in our squad.Hardly my local team any more.

Instead I will support Barcelona the most,they play great football while actually having a team with lots of Spaniards and Catalans in it.Great history too.

No I won't support Bayern,don't like German football really and they will never be as good as this Barca team.
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Post by RealGunner Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:49 am

worms wrote:Why should I support my local club when there is hardly any local players in the team and I can't get a ticket to go the game because they prefer to make money of foreigners and people from down south?

I don't know how you can call Arsenal your local team when there is only 3 British players in your whole squad.

When Carragher retires we will only have 1 local player in our squad.Hardly my local team any more.

Instead I will support Barcelona,they play great football while actually having a team with lots of Spaniards and Catalans in it.Great history too.

No I won't support Bayern,don't like German football really and they will never be as good as this Barca team.

Local means around where you are from lol. I won't go any further because it's none of my business and whoever you support is yours. But saying England lacks passion about football is definitely wrong.

oh and we have 6 British players :coffee:
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:53 am

He didn't say England lacks passion though, he just said they're not number 1, which is entirely accurate.
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Post by worms Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:05 am

Sure you have 6 and I didn't say England lacks passion.
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Post by Vlad the Impaler Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:11 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:He didn't say England lacks passion though, he just said they're not number 1, which is entirely accurate.

And how do you know this?

I am a fan of an English club (despite the fact that I have latin blood) but it isn't fair from me to say that we are the most passionate fans in the world.It isn't fair from anyone; nobody can claim that his country has the most passionate fans.Each one is subjective.

There is no clear evidence to prove something.It is a waste of time to compare the passion put by fans for their clubs.

I almost have a heart-attack every week because of my feelings for Man United, but I bet you also live with passion all the games of your fav clubs.This is the thing we...football fans, have in common...passion, this unites us.
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Post by Be/\/ceCALI Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:34 am

thread quickly heading in the same direction as white_star's "glory hunters" thread
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