David Moyes is a Football Genius

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Post by Helmer Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:30 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:I'm sure they can. There's about 500 million people on this planet with the last name Silva, and I'm sure every single one would be a better choice than Moyes.
The United thing has broken Moyes. He will no doubt West Ham get relegated.

Firenze wrote:Don't understand it. West Ham have an alright team, willing to spend every summer..pretty big name. Why sign this scrub? they can do better.

because that is what we all think of Moyes :coffee:

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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:36 am

Class act. I was colossally wrong.
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Post by Firenze Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:49 am

meh, if he has them playing well next season I'll believe the hype.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:56 am

He is doing what he used to do best at Everton. He always had a great eye for shrewd buys and he actually knows how he wants to play and what players he needs in his system.

Great to see him reclaiming his reputation
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Post by RealGunner Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:29 pm

He is doing an incredible job
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Post by Nishankly Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:29 pm

WHAT A MANAGER, UNPLAYABLE
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Post by Firenze Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:44 pm

bring him home
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Post by El Gunner Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:48 pm

that's the spirit, Firenze!
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:13 pm

Why would he take such a downgrade though ?
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Post by CBarca Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:29 pm

Doing an incredible job at West Ham. Been something else to watch their improvement since he came in. They're a very good team
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Post by RealGunner Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:31 pm

he really is
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Post by Nishankly Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:38 pm

First PL manager to win against Sevilla in the EL?
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Post by Lucifer Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:26 am

U know hindsight is 20/20 but United should have been more patient with this guy imo

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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:03 am

Lucifer wrote:U know hindsight is 20/20 but United should have been more patient with this guy imo

Nope. They merely should have hired better managers after him.
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Post by Thimmy Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:47 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Lucifer wrote:U know hindsight is 20/20 but United should have been more patient with this guy imo

Nope. They merely should have hired better managers after him.


There's no way to objectively confirm who's right, but I also do think they should've been more patient with him, and contrary to your belief, I firmly believe that Arsenal will greatly benefit from being patient with Arteta.

I think it's absurd that all managers are held up to the same standard, regardless of whether or not someone has the immeasurably greater benefit of taking over a ready-made team or the freedom to compose one that's close to what they would like to work with.

It's talent and cohesiveness that lead to consistency and general performance in football, and I don't think I'll ever understand how a lot of people seem to think that's something that simply trickles down from their manager, regardless of circumstance.

It makes much more sense to me that the most successful clubs will be the ones that afford their manager the time and resources to build a cohesive team that's close to their ideal, rather than arbitrarily switching managers during times when the team will be scrutinized for not being close to that ideal.
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Post by danyjr Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:19 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Lucifer wrote:U know hindsight is 20/20 but United should have been more patient with this guy imo

Nope. They merely should have hired better managers after him.
Let's be honest, every manager since SAF got more time and money to spend than Moyes. So it is fair to say United could have been more patient with the guy. His signings were Fellaini and Mata, there latter allegedly being forced to him.

But jury is still out there if he is a big team coach. One thing to coach underdogs, another to coach superstars.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:59 pm

Moyes is a very good coach, but he isn't made for a top club and neither is his football. He was failing horribly at Man United and was sacked rightly. Let's not forget back then Man United were still the league champions and had expectations which have since been lowered.

If in hindsight it seems like of all post-SAF managers he's the one who would have deserved more time, that's only because the appointments after him were such trainwrecks as was the general work of the board, while he was just an appointment that didn't work out and maybe could never work out, seeing the shoes he had to fill.

Appointing Van Gaal was a bad joke, getting Mourinho to follow him was the worst possible idea, and Solksjaer was the interim manager who just stayed on because somehow the club forgot to appoint the proper new manager.

It is a supposed top club who didn't think of appointing a top manager in a whole decade and then wonder why they're not doing that greatly.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:09 pm

Moyes is very much like a Scottish Emery i think.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:16 pm

Hans wrote:Moyes is a very good coach, but he isn't made for a top club and neither is his football. He was failing horribly at Man United and was sacked rightly. Let's not forget back then Man United were still the league champions and had expectations which have since been lowered.
he inherited an aging, past their prime squad... only De Gea out of all those players went on to have a fruitful and sustainable career
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Post by Casciavit Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:28 pm

We gon act like Moyes didn’t have United playing some of the most dreadful football we’ve seen? He had them breaking cross records every other game. Laughing
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Post by Thimmy Sat Mar 19, 2022 3:54 am

All of them did. Even Ole. And that was the one thing I was excited about when Ole was appointed after having been forced to watch Van Gaal and Mourinho's brands of football. Even Mourinho played relatively entertaining football when he had more offensive-minded players at his disposal at Real Madrid than what he's traditionally had at other clubs.

It may be a controversial opinion, but the counter-attacking brand of football we played under him was generally more entertaining to watch than how we played under Zidane, which was another attempt at breaking crossing records.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:05 am

El Gunner wrote:
Hans wrote:Moyes is a very good coach, but he isn't made for a top club and neither is his football. He was failing horribly at Man United and was sacked rightly. Let's not forget back then Man United were still the league champions and had expectations which have since been lowered.
he inherited an aging, past their prime squad... only De Gea out of all those players went on to have a fruitful and sustainable career

Yeah it was a tough gig, no doubt.
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Post by Casciavit Sat Mar 19, 2022 3:01 pm

Thimmy wrote:All of them did. Even Ole. And that was the one thing I was excited about when Ole was appointed after having been forced to watch Van Gaal and Mourinho's brands of football. Even Mourinho played relatively entertaining football when he had more offensive-minded players at his disposal at Real Madrid than what he's traditionally had at other clubs.

It may be a controversial opinion, but the counter-attacking brand of football we played under him was generally more entertaining to watch than how we played under Zidane, which was another attempt at breaking crossing records.


I agree they all played shitty.

I just have vivid memories of Moyes' United more. Seeing them play a 4-4-2 where they tried getting the ball to Valencia who would cross it to Fellaini in the box gave me PTSD. Laughing

I'm not even against crossing. My favorite type of play involves overloading one side with short passing, then a long ball to the opposite wing, where your winger has a 1v1, and then after getting past their man they cross the ball into the players in the box.

https://streamff.com/v/dc1d24

https://streamable.com/qh6h

Something like this. Although getting these situations to happen is easier said than done. I just rarely remember his United doing any of that and it was just mindless crossing into the first defender.

Even if Zidane's was like that at least you had Ronaldo and Benzema attacking the box with Marcelo, Carvajal, Modric, and Kroos whipping crosses in. United had Young and Valencia whipping crosses in with Fellaini and Welbeck challenging them in the box LMFAO.
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Post by Casciavit Sat Mar 19, 2022 3:31 pm

Also, I don't think Ole was a poor tactician. His pre-game tactical adjustments based on the opposition were quite interesting. Playing Pogba on LW in big games was something Fergie would've done too. He has a winning H2H record against Pep doesn't he?

He knew how to coach the team to sit back and counter. However, nowadays as a top team, you need to be able to coach how to dominate smaller teams. I just don't think he could do that. Now there are other top coaches who weren't good at doing that, but they compensated with it by player quality.

Based on United's signings I assume that's where his mindset was. Sign a fast, experienced CB in Varane to help defend against counters so you can play a higher line which lets you put sustained pressure on the opposition. Sign another dribbling attacker to destabilize parked buses as their movement will pull defenders out of their position. And then sign the GOAT goalscorer to profit off the many crossing situations you get against teams who park the bus.

The issue came with the dynamics between players.
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Post by Thimmy Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:25 am

I get the impression that he didn't have that level of influence over transfers. The only time I recall him directly mentioning transfer targets, was when he named Dybala among the players he was interested in, in a Norwegian interview. I don't know if they even attempted to sign Dybala.

They got Wan Bissaka and Daniel James that season. The club's plan seemed to be to move away from making the same high-profile, transfer errors that they'd made in the past, but I really can't tell if their general team building has changed at all since Ferguson left. That's why I recognize that as the club's primary issue. Maybe it will change when they finally get a sporting director in their current manager. I wouldn't bet money on it Laughing
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Post by Robespierre Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:06 pm

He is really
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