Paul Pogba !!

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:33 am

cyberman wrote:
Cleverley is having a better season than Pogba, cleverley is exactly what we need while Pogba isn't.
Daelhi in the reserves is better than Pogba, he will have taken that mercenaries spot anyway.
Our reserve is owning serie a.. Our reserve. Yet our midfielders aren't good enough?
This is like barca losing cesc.. No biggie. We just signed Germany's best am to replace old Pogba.. Woe is us.

Have you been drinking? You've definitely been drinking.

All that hate because Fergie was a fool and didn't play Pogba when he had a midfield injury crisis. Yeah Pogba should keep playing infront of 50 people in a park for United reserves' reserve team instead of growing with a club who actually know how to use him.

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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:34 am

Yeah, juves record of developing youngsters pisses over air Alex..

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:35 am

Please tell me where I said we develop youngsters better than United in general and not Pogba as an individual. Don't read what's not there and use it in an argument.
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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:35 am

Out of curiosity, where would Pogba fit in our team right now?

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:36 am

Wherever he wants with your "Midfield"
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Post by Future Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:37 am

Goal of the year so far for me. SAF lost

Pogba is already quality and he's 19
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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:39 am

You said grow with a club who knows how to use him.
Youre implying that utd don't know how to develop his talent.
History says otherwise
Btw Carrick and cleverley have been outstanding this year, carrick pushing for our poty.
That's why.. You know.. Pogba couldn't actually get in our team.
Only in football would a reserve from us walk in your side and pus still have the cheek to question our quality

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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:42 am

cyberman wrote:Cleverly is at his best in tight spaces and he's been outstanding for us this year. It's amazing how when a player leaves utd he becomes this great Titan while he's at utd.. Nothing.
Our underage teams have better technical players than any other in recent history.. Maybe more than 92. Better than piqué, Rossi, Morrison etc.
Daelhi for example is the first ever player guaranteed a professional contract, he's the underage player the whole world wanted and we got him. From top to bottom were implementing a more possession type game, hence choosing cleverly over Pogba, signing kagawa and so forth. and don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, us utd fans have been watching Pogba for years, he needs players like tunnicliffe to do his running, he's too lazy to have a midfield built around him. Morrison outshone him, he's the bigger talent but he thinks he's tupac so he's going nowhere.
I hope Pogba does well, he'll knock in 7 or 8 long range shots ala lampard and you'll all salivate over him. But against the bigger team who close down hell struggle.

You say that Pogba will struggle vs bigger teams yet he has shown nothing but excellent composure and ability in tight spaces in a league which deprives you of space. Unlike Cleverley who has shown excellent vision, passing range, understanding of the game yet hasn't shown the ability to work under pressure in tight situations and vs bigger teams. Off the record Carrick has been far superior and has been United's best player after RvP.

Fact is Cleverley can't be compared to Pogba since Cleverley is 23 while Pogs is 19 and has shown far more then just long range shooting. His development under Conte and Pirlo of Juventus has improved his raw ability to a very mature player.

Nobody is hating on United as my personal opinion is that Ferguson was right to let him go out of his impatient attitude. Yet lets not fool ourselves into thinking that he didn't have a secure future at United if his attitude was what Ferguson desired as his potential is undoubted.

As for the United talents, I believe you in hyping their abilities yet until they don't prove it a relevant league like Pogba has so far, their technique and talent doesn't mean anything.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:44 am

No United didn't know how to develop Pogba considering at times they even used Phil Jones as CDM ahead of him. If you knew how to use Pogba he wouldn't have spent all that time inbetween a bench and a field playing against people with half his ability.

He was only a reserve at your club because Fergie wasted him. Correct me if i'm wrong but even scholes (Who I admire as a player) was hyping up Pogba to the press.

If Pogba didn't leave (Thanks to Fergie mishandling his talent) then you would not be so much anti-Pogba.
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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:46 am

Development under conte? He's been these five
Minutes and is playing thenexactmway since first showing up. Serie A is so slow these days, it suits Pogba but that tight space point was credible 5 years ago.
Cleverley does all his best work in tight spaces, I've seen every freaking game, it's his main attribute. Look at him v the mighty Italy away a few
Months ago.
You're so far wide of the mark there

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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:47 am

Of course you'd play jones as a dm in front of Pogba FFs. Pogba is as much a dm as i am.
Don't get cocky yet, you haven't actually developed him yet. He's still of utd stock

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:49 am

You mean that match where over 30 Pirlo made more passes than most of the England team combined? Cleverly misses 100% sitters and has yet to impress me in a big game. Unlike the younger Pogba who has excelled against the likes of Milan and Napoli.
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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:00 am

Milan lol.
No the friendly in Italy btw.
Cleverly kept yaya toure quiet in the etihad etc, he's excelled int h big games.
We're sitting top with record points than any utd side in history, our wingers suck this year, our defence is injury hit this year playing in front of a young keeper.
Everything comes through our midfield now, they're he players supplying the front two, and I read this? Tight spaces? Any YouTube video prices that wrong as basic as it sounds
Cleverley sits deep and helps dictates play, he doesn't get into the box and it's not in our nature to shoot from 30 yards. Don't believe me? When's the last time Rooney had a wild shot? Compare that to 2 years ago, he'll compare it to last year.
The punt of pass and move goals we've scored this year far exceeds any other year. Why? He short passing range in tight spaces that Rvp, kagawa, cleverly, Carrick and Rooney bring. I can't think of the last time we've scored from a cross by our wingers.
The fact I'm arguing this is depressing. Our injury hit defence is the problem, not midfield. How many goals do we have to score? How many places do we have to go and swamp the oppositions midfield? Arsenal.. Done. EPL champs.. Done. Cl winners... Done.
Our problem is lazing off when we go 2 ahead, we try and protect the defence too much and it backfires. That comes with experience and when it does itll become more apparent.
Until then I'll sit here and read tired clichés about midfielders, rafael is too rash, Evans is a joke, Rooney who and smile.
The bernabeu is coming..

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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:01 am

Fcking iPod, spell check can suck it

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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:01 am

cyberman wrote:Development under conte? He's been these five
Minutes and is playing thenexactmway since first showing up. Serie A is so slow these days, it suits Pogba but that tight space point was credible 5 years ago.
Cleverley does all his best work in tight spaces, I've seen every freaking game, it's his main attribute. Look at him v the mighty Italy away a few
Months ago.
You're so far wide of the mark there

Yes development under Conte who he personally works with I'm training. Pogba has played 13 games now and has shown tremendous improvement. Before he left his position to early, dribbled into dangerous spaces, showed a rather raw understand of the game yet over the space of the season he has shown undeniable improvement tactically and technically. Far cry from his early season where he did little for one to praise him.

As for Serie A being slow thats quite the stereotype as even provincial sides don't play at the supposed slow pace that's labeled these days. Even then, a slower game doesn't necessarily mean easy to work in as a teams collective understand, tactical movement and cohesion makes up for fast paced games. Theres a reason why players new to the Serie a comment on how it's difficult go adapt to tactically and allows you less space compared to La Liga and PL.

Cleverly vs that B team of Italia? Look, he is an open space player who thrives in all the options presented to him as some are more adept in tight spaces yet fall in open spaces. I personally just think Cleverley needs to work better in close and pressured environments better and improve his weaker foot. I'm sure he will as the man is only 23 and has years ahead of him under Ferguson



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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:03 am

Too early or settling into another team, culture and country.
I'm seeing the exact Pogba I saw in the reserves last year

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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:07 am

Italy didn't treat it like a friendly. De Rossi smashed Tom in the first 2 minutes, they were trying their best to bully him.
Cleverley ran deep, robbed de Rossi and turned 2 players at once.. His battle v ails here his year was the best battle I've seen all season. Wiltshire was so frustrated that he got himself sent off..

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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:11 am

cyberman wrote:Too early or settling into another team, culture and country.
I'm seeing the exact Pogba I saw in the reserves last year

Can't agree there Cyber but we will have to assess this situation end of season.

As for Madrid since you mention it, I don't agree with the common conception that United do not have a midfield, that they are RvP reliant (although his importance is undeniable), that Evans is shit (rate him higher then even Vidic). I don't rate Jones or Rafael as highly but do for Smalling who is mature beyond his years and I predict United will triumph over Madrid. My players of the season have been Carrick, Evans and RVp

Not much to gloat about considering Madrid this year are a shadow of what they were last year though.
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Post by Swanhends Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:14 am

cyberman wrote:From top to bottom were implementing a more possession type game, hence choosing cleverly over Pogba,

scratch
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Post by cyberman Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:15 am

See? If we go out and beat Madrid then it's nothing, if we're beat then it a sure sign of every cliche going.
Kagawa and cleverley have really impressed when playing together, their first 60 mins v Liverpool were a joy to watch.
Key element here being cleverley, no coincidence that this is carricks best season since having another English midfielder deep lying along side him

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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:20 am

cyberman wrote:See? If we go out and beat Madrid then it's nothing, if we're beat then it a sure sign of every cliche going.
Kagawa and cleverley have really impressed when playing together, their first 60 mins v Liverpool were a joy to watch.
Key element here being cleverley, no coincidence that this is carricks best season since having another English midfielder deep lying along side him

Tsk Cyber all I meant was just expect a less difficult ride compared to if you were to face them last year. Beating them would be a massive accomplishment nonetheless

Key element won't be Cleverley or Carrick as it will be Wayne Rooney playing in his new Baggio Deep lying Forward/#10 role who will be vital in pressing Madrid's midfield down the middle given the match will be attacked down the flanks. He will be the player to watch.
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Post by vizkosity Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:41 am

still too early....
he might end up like quaresma...who knows
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Post by norton Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:51 am

vizkosity wrote:still too early....
he might end up like quaresma...who knows

Naw, the kid has already surpassed Quaresma at his best. Plus, watch his mechanics when he shoots, this guy was well coached as a child.

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Post by SchinnerC Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:58 am

No point arguing, he's clearly pissed. We should've never let him go. His 'attitude' is mainly out of the frustration of not being trusted enough to play in the first team. Good for him though, he's now playing for another top club who are playing football that allow midfielders to shine. He'll turning out to be a WC player.
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Post by vizkosity Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:09 am

norton wrote:
vizkosity wrote:still too early....
he might end up like quaresma...who knows

Naw, the kid has already surpassed Quaresma at his best. Plus, watch his mechanics when he shoots, this guy was well coached as a child.

all it takes is a few unfortunate moments
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Post by AnJl Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:12 am

cyberman wrote:Of course you'd play jones as a dm in front of Pogba FFs. Pogba is as much a dm as i am.
Don't get cocky yet, you haven't actually developed him yet. He's still of utd stock

I love how you are on one hand classifying him as an average talent and how you already have better players than him in your team, then on the other hand you keep saying he is United stock even though you clearly know a players development doesnt end at 18.
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