*Best in the World series* - Who are the top 5 DM's in the World?

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Post by Onyx Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 1:50

The return of the 'best in the world' series.

Who are the top 5 DM's in the World?

By DM I mean someone like Busquets, Javi Martinez, Javi Garcia, Mikel, Capoue, Lucas etc. Not B2B's like Vidal, Khedira etc.


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Post by RealGunner Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 1:51

Busquets. Easily.
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Post by Onyx Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 1:53

RealGunner wrote:Busquets. Easily.

Since it probably is going to be Busquets easily, how about top 3 or top 5?

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Post by Milantildeath Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 2:39

Does Pirlo qualify for this? It surely should be Pirlo
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Post by RealGunner Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 2:43

Busquets, DDR(although he is better as a CM for me ), Lars Bender, Lucas, Gonalons/Nainggolan
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Post by Onyx Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 2:46

Milantildeath wrote:Does Pirlo qualify for this? It surely should be Pirlo

Nah Pirlo's more of a deep lying playmaker.

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Post by peerless Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 2:58

1] Sergio Busquets
2] Luiz Gustavo
3] Sven Bender
4] Lucas Leiva
5] Milan Badelj
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Post by Milantildeath Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 3:13

De Jong before he was injured?
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Post by worms Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 3:47

1.Busquets
2.Javi Martinez
3.Cambiasso
4.Toulalon
5.Swen Bender


I won't count Mascerano as he hardly ever plays DM anymore.(Only for Argentina,he doesn't play DM for Barca at all.)

De Rossi is more of a CM to me and he doesn't play there much anymore.

Prime Cambiasso would have been first,though that doesn't mean he was better than Busquets is now.Just different types of players with different strengths.Busquets is more suited to Barca/Spains system of having 70% possession and pressuring high up the pitch with the rest of the midfield.But for a more orthodox team Cambiasso would be better in DM as his defensive positioning and covering are much superior than that of Busquets.As seen as most teams are not like Barcelona and Spain I would pick Prime Cambiasso as number 1.He is a little bitter slower now and some thought he was well pass his best last season but this season he has been very good.
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Post by S Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 5:15

1.Busquets
2.Javi Martinez
3.Sven Bender
4.Lucas Leiva
5.Luiz Gustavo/Jeremy Toulalan/Sandro/Radja Nainggolan
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Post by RealGunner Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 12:44

Sven Vs Lars hmm
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Post by Valkyrja Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 13:00

De Rossi
Busquets
Javi Martinez
Lucas Leiva
Gustavo
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Post by alexjanosik Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 14:32

worms wrote:1.Busquets
2.Javi Martinez
3.Cambiasso
4.Toulalon
5.Swen Bender


I won't count Mascerano as he hardly ever plays DM anymore.(Only for Argentina,he doesn't play DM for Barca at all.)

De Rossi is more of a CM to me and he doesn't play there much anymore.

Prime Cambiasso would have been first,though that doesn't mean he was better than Busquets is now.Just different types of players with different strengths.Busquets is more suited to Barca/Spains system of having 70% possession and pressuring high up the pitch with the rest of the midfield.But for a more orthodox team Cambiasso would be better in DM as his defensive positioning and covering are much superior than that of Busquets.As seen as most teams are not like Barcelona and Spain I would pick Prime Cambiasso as number 1.He is a little bitter slower now and some thought he was well pass his best last season but this season he has been very good.

Dont agree.Cambiasso's defensive positioning and covering is not better than Busquets,let alone much better.Busquets is better at those things.
I dont consider just sitting in front of the defense excellent positioning for a DM.Busquets is tactically perfect and his positioning and covering is flawless.

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Post by Valkyrja Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 15:44

Busquets' tackling is below average.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 15:52

RealGunner wrote:Sven Vs Lars hmm

Lars could be argued to be more b2b.
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Post by Onyx Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 16:11

Doesn't Lars Bender play as a RCM for Leverkusen? In a 4-3-2-1?

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Post by worms Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 17:14

alexjanosik wrote:
worms wrote:1.Busquets
2.Javi Martinez
3.Cambiasso
4.Toulalon
5.Swen Bender


I won't count Mascerano as he hardly ever plays DM anymore.(Only for Argentina,he doesn't play DM for Barca at all.)

De Rossi is more of a CM to me and he doesn't play there much anymore.

Prime Cambiasso would have been first,though that doesn't mean he was better than Busquets is now.Just different types of players with different strengths.Busquets is more suited to Barca/Spains system of having 70% possession and pressuring high up the pitch with the rest of the midfield.But for a more orthodox team Cambiasso would be better in DM as his defensive positioning and covering are much superior than that of Busquets.As seen as most teams are not like Barcelona and Spain I would pick Prime Cambiasso as number 1.He is a little bitter slower now and some thought he was well pass his best last season but this season he has been very good.

Dont agree.Cambiasso's defensive positioning and covering is not better than Busquets,let alone much better.Busquets is better at those things.
I dont consider just sitting in front of the defense excellent positioning for a DM.Busquets is tactically perfect and his positioning and covering is flawless.

His positioning is practically perfect for Barcelona but he would be far from perfect if he was a DM in a more orthodox team.

Cambiasso has one of the best positioning ability and intelligence in the history of DMs.Go watch his performance against Barca at the Nou Camp in 2010.Busquets could never defend that well,his ability to know when to cover or when to pressure is nowhere near Cambiassos.

Remember Rooneys goal in the CL Final? Do you think Cambiasso would have foolishly dived in like that and left his defense exposed?

Do you think I am the only person who has this opinion of Busquets?

Read this,it gives a more detailed explanation of my opinion on Busquets.Busquets is one of my favorite players and for me he is a top 10 player in the world,he is unique,one of a kind but I will happily admit he wouldn't be perfect as a orthodox DM.Maybe he could improve his ability at this with practice in a orthodox system but that is merely speculation and he may never play in this kind of system.

http://santapelota.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/busquets-as-an-advanced-midfielder/

Relevant quotes from this article:

"Twice during the first half of the 2011 Champions League Final at Wembley, Sergio Busquets’ mistimed anticipation gifted Manchester United two chances. In the first instance, he abandoned his zone to challenge Giggs who was advancing through the centre. The Welshman then had space to dissect the Barça defensive line some 30 yards further ahead and send Chicharito through 1 v1 with Valdes. His second lapse was duly penalized and was perfectly illustrative of Busquets’ limitations position-wise. Rooney moved into the space that Busquets might otherwise have been occupying had he not committed himself to a tardy and erstwhile challenge of the England forward. In a moment that required making a call, of deciding whether to stay or go, and seeing through that decision with resolve, Busquets dithered, something that a more conventional mediocentro is loathe to do, and Rooney advanced before exchanging a one-two with Giggs and netting the equaliser."

"It may seem glib, pedantic even, to sift through Busquets’ impressive playing credentials and highlight these shortcomings, and this writer is not one to dismiss the unique qualities which the man from Badia brings to the position."

"In any other club, he would likely play either as an auxiliary to the deepest midfielder dividing the horizontal and vertical plains with his fellow pivot (as per his partnership with Xabi Alonso in the 2010 World Cup), or as slightly more advanced midfielder occupying the band where Xavi or Iniesta typically play, an interior."




"it is hard to imagine Busquets prospering in the holding role in any context outside of Barça.

Assuring that he always stays in the vicinity of possession-hogs such as Xavi and Iniesta, Busquets can anticipate to recover the ball without worrying about guarding the defence behind him; this is because he quickly offloads those robbed balls to the possession kings and Barcelona can extinguish the transition, a phase which their opponents invariably prefer to exploit (whereas Barça feel more comfortable re-establishing a static offensive phase), such that the blaugrana need not worry about positional order along the back line."



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Post by Valkyrja Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 20:45

In the future Busquets will probably play Xavi's role.
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Post by Onyx Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 20:59

I'm not sure Busquets would be effective as Xavi further up the pitch. He'll continue as a DM imo.

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Post by alexjanosik Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 5:32

worms wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
worms wrote:1.Busquets
2.Javi Martinez
3.Cambiasso
4.Toulalon
5.Swen Bender


I won't count Mascerano as he hardly ever plays DM anymore.(Only for Argentina,he doesn't play DM for Barca at all.)

De Rossi is more of a CM to me and he doesn't play there much anymore.

Prime Cambiasso would have been first,though that doesn't mean he was better than Busquets is now.Just different types of players with different strengths.Busquets is more suited to Barca/Spains system of having 70% possession and pressuring high up the pitch with the rest of the midfield.But for a more orthodox team Cambiasso would be better in DM as his defensive positioning and covering are much superior than that of Busquets.As seen as most teams are not like Barcelona and Spain I would pick Prime Cambiasso as number 1.He is a little bitter slower now and some thought he was well pass his best last season but this season he has been very good.

Dont agree.Cambiasso's defensive positioning and covering is not better than Busquets,let alone much better.Busquets is better at those things.
I dont consider just sitting in front of the defense excellent positioning for a DM.Busquets is tactically perfect and his positioning and covering is flawless.

His positioning is practically perfect for Barcelona but he would be far from perfect if he was a DM in a more orthodox team.

Cambiasso has one of the best positioning ability and intelligence in the history of DMs.Go watch his performance against Barca at the Nou Camp in 2010.Busquets could never defend that well,his ability to know when to cover or when to pressure is nowhere near Cambiassos.

Remember Rooneys goal in the CL Final? Do you think Cambiasso would have foolishly dived in like that and left his defense exposed?

Do you think I am the only person who has this opinion of Busquets?

Read this,it gives a more detailed explanation of my opinion on Busquets.Busquets is one of my favorite players and for me he is a top 10 player in the world,he is unique,one of a kind but I will happily admit he wouldn't be perfect as a orthodox DM.Maybe he could improve his ability at this with practice in a orthodox system but that is merely speculation and he may never play in this kind of system.

http://santapelota.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/busquets-as-an-advanced-midfielder/

Relevant quotes from this article:

"Twice during the first half of the 2011 Champions League Final at Wembley, Sergio Busquets’ mistimed anticipation gifted Manchester United two chances. In the first instance, he abandoned his zone to challenge Giggs who was advancing through the centre. The Welshman then had space to dissect the Barça defensive line some 30 yards further ahead and send Chicharito through 1 v1 with Valdes. His second lapse was duly penalized and was perfectly illustrative of Busquets’ limitations position-wise. Rooney moved into the space that Busquets might otherwise have been occupying had he not committed himself to a tardy and erstwhile challenge of the England forward. In a moment that required making a call, of deciding whether to stay or go, and seeing through that decision with resolve, Busquets dithered, something that a more conventional mediocentro is loathe to do, and Rooney advanced before exchanging a one-two with Giggs and netting the equaliser."

"It may seem glib, pedantic even, to sift through Busquets’ impressive playing credentials and highlight these shortcomings, and this writer is not one to dismiss the unique qualities which the man from Badia brings to the position."

"In any other club, he would likely play either as an auxiliary to the deepest midfielder dividing the horizontal and vertical plains with his fellow pivot (as per his partnership with Xabi Alonso in the 2010 World Cup), or as slightly more advanced midfielder occupying the band where Xavi or Iniesta typically play, an interior."




"it is hard to imagine Busquets prospering in the holding role in any context outside of Barça.

Assuring that he always stays in the vicinity of possession-hogs such as Xavi and Iniesta, Busquets can anticipate to recover the ball without worrying about guarding the defence behind him; this is because he quickly offloads those robbed balls to the possession kings and Barcelona can extinguish the transition, a phase which their opponents invariably prefer to exploit (whereas Barça feel more comfortable re-establishing a static offensive phase), such that the blaugrana need not worry about positional order along the back line."




Again as I mentioned I dont consider just sitting in front of the defense great positioning for a DM.We look to win the ball back as quickly as possible and thats why Busquets is so crucial for us.He does a perfect job of winning the ball back for us early.If you want to see how useless just sitting in front of the defense is for us,just watch Song early on in the season.
He was just standing in front of the defense and looking to drop back and was atrocious.Now he has learned and is much better.
You see,we play at times with 7,8 players in front of the ball.When the opposition breaks,we can quickly get outnumbered on the counter.And it would be pretty useless for Busquets then to just sit in front of the defense as there would be far too much space in the center and in the wings.Thats why its imperative that Busquets try and win the ball back early.And he does that almost perfectly through his brilliant anticipation and positioning.
You mention the Rooney goal in the final.Dont think Busquets was at fault but I might have to see again.Anyway I am sure he tried to win the ball early.You also fail to mention that Busquets had an imperious game and owned Rooney numerous times and barely allowed United a sniff.This with Masch in defense.
The point I am trying to get at is that it is easy for Cambiasso to just sit in front of the defense and never budge with Inter's park the bus style.He has plenty of help with others covering the flanks and all.Because of their style of play Inter dont get outnumbered at the back and Cambiasso can just play in the center and you call that great positioning.I dont think so.He just plays in a system where he has a lot of help from other midfielders in defense and he can afford to stay in the center.
Busquets doesnt have that luxury.We play an uber attacking game and if Busquets doesnt win the ball back early,it can be deadly for us.You call that poor positioning,I call that great awareness and being tactically perfect.
Put Cambiasso in Busquets position and he would be clueless and would flop.Put Busquets in Cambiasso's place and he would do a better job.He would have all the help in defense and wouldnt have to worry about getting outnumbered on the counter.He could just sit in front of the defense and cover the zone.And you would call it great positioning.
You mentioning Inter vs us at the Camp Nou is a clasic example of what I am talking about.Dont think Cambiasso proved anything about his superior positioning that day.Inter parked the bus.He had plenty of help from the midfield.He didnt have to worry about the flanks because he knew they were covered by other Inter forwards.The Inter forwards were auxiliary defenders that day.
Many other teams have done that against us.Chelsea a few times,Celtic recently and Rubin Kazan.Parking the bus and allowing no space in between the lines.
Does that also mean Essien,Mikel,Lampard,Ballack,Wanyama and the Rubin Kazan midfielders had great positioning among the best in history.No it doesnt.It just means that when you park the bus its easier for the DM to just protect his zone and sit in front.Doesnt show his superior positioning.
Busquets trying to win the ball early due to our system doesnt mean he is inferior to Cambiasso positionally.He is not.He is better positionally than Cambiasso.Put Busquets in Inter and he would do a better job than Cambiasso.

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Post by worms Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 6:52

"Chelsea a few times,Celtic recently and Rubin Kazan.Parking the bus and allowing no space in between the lines.
Does that also mean Essien,Mikel,Lampard,Ballack,Wanyama and the Rubin Kazan midfielders had great positioning among the best in history."

No because Inter defended much better than them teams and Cambiasso defended much better than those players you listed.You should read that paragraph again and you might see how retarded your so called logic is.That was just an example of one game,Cambiasso is one of the best DM in history.

And why are you telling me Busquets would be better than Cambiasso at Barca and that he is a brilliant player?I have already said the same thing myself.

"Put Busquets in Inter and he would do a better job than Cambiasso."

Even now not defensively.

Prime Cambiasso would be better for Inter at DM than Busquets would be full stop.And I stand by my point that in the same situation Cambiasso wouldn't have foolishly dived in like that against Rooney leaving acres of space in front of the defense for Rooney to run into.


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Post by The Sanchez Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 6:58

likeastar wrote:Busquets' tackling is below average.

You don't watch much of Busquests then because its because of this element, he is classified as the best DM.

likeastar wrote:In the future Busquets will probably play Xavi's role.

Does it matter? ATM, Busquests is playing as a DM and is the best in the world in this position.
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Post by Lupi Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 7:17

:bow: DDr tackles are world class , one of the few players that can pull of a hard tackle without committing any fault. I don't really see DDR as a CM hence to the fact that he wasn't really successful in Cm position in this season

I don't really watch La Liga to form an opinion about busquets
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Post by alexjanosik Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 7:41

worms wrote:"Chelsea a few times,Celtic recently and Rubin Kazan.Parking the bus and allowing no space in between the lines.
Does that also mean Essien,Mikel,Lampard,Ballack,Wanyama and the Rubin Kazan midfielders had great positioning among the best in history."

No because Inter defended much better than them teams and Cambiasso defended much better than those players you listed.You should read that paragraph again and you might see how retarded your so called logic is.That was just an example of one game,Cambiasso is one of the best DM in history.

And why are you telling me Busquets would be better than Cambiasso at Barca and that he is a brilliant player?I have already said the same thing myself.

"Put Busquets in Inter and he would do a better job than Cambiasso."

Even now not defensively.

Prime Cambiasso would be better for Inter at DM than Busquets would be full stop.And I stand by my point that in the same situation Cambiasso wouldn't have foolishly dived in like that against Rooney leaving acres of space in front of the defense for Rooney to run into.

Inter didnt defend much better than those teams.Watch the Chelsea matches from 09 again.We barely had any chances on goal.The Iniesta goal that put us through was the first shot on goal in that match.That shows how well Chelsea restricted us by parking the bus.
Same with Rubin Kazan.We barely created any chances.Against Celtic this season too.We could barely create.So you are very wrong when you say that Inter defended much better.These teams defended just as well by parking the bus if not better.Also wrong when you say that Cambiasso defended much better than those players.fact is when a team parks the bus,its a team effort.So for you to claim that it was a Cambiasso masterclass is completely and utterly wrong.
BTW nice that you call my logic retarded instead of actually trying to counter it.
Do you agree or not that the way we play forces Busquets to try and win the ball early.And that it would be a complete and utter disaster if he just sat in front of the defense or what you call great positioning.
Do you agree or not that Cambiasso would flop for us?Do you agree or not that due to the way Inter play,Cambiasso can just sit in his zone and not worry about getting outnumbered on the counter or worry about fullbacks who bomb up 90% of the match(Alves and Alba?Do you agree or not that this forces Busquets to try and win the ball early?
Do you agree or not that if Busquets played in Inter,he too would have to worry only about his zone and thus would be great positionally in your view?
And once more with the Rooney goal.Dont think he was at fault.As already explained Busquets tries to close attacks before they happen.999 times of 1000 he succeeds.One time he supposedly fails(according to you),we have people like you claiming that it was because he is not great positionally.

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Post by McAgger Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 8:16

Epoto wrote: :bow: DDr tackles are world class , one of the few players that can pull of a hard tackle without committing any fault. I don't really see DDR as a CM hence to the fact that he wasn't really successful in Cm position in this season

I don't really watch La Liga to form an opinion about busquets

Leiva is the same. He terrorizes the best player on the other team with a hard tackle at the beginning of the match and for the rest of the match the player is afraid to play near Lucas. Razz

Pre-Injury it was undoubtedly Lucas, but now it's probably Bisquit
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