B.NEWS : Lisandro Lopez on the verge of Juve move

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Post by DeviAngel Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:29 pm

Still ongoing quest for Juventus attacking right decision, and the matter became serious after a few setbacks Turin team lately ... First Juventus failed to overcome home Sampdoria (1-2) with one less player, and last weekend drew 1-1 in Parma. The actual attackers were in crisis, and after a failed idea with many other attackers, Juventus footballer turned Lyon Lisandro Lopez, 29-year-old Argentinean. Llorente with Juventus went furthest with the negotiations, but the Torino team you do not like players can Atheltic obtained only in the summer. Juventus striker wants immediately, and the French press announced that Juventus has sent an offer of 8 million euros in damages and that all parties agree that it is the job completed. Lopez from Porto to Lyon came 2009th year, and in the current half-season he scored six league goals. Otherwise, Lysander has recently tried to bring Fiorentina. football-magazin.com
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Post by Juventude Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:35 pm

Ugh. I'm not a fan of this deal. This probably also means at least a 3 year contract with it since it doesn't sound like a loan deal. We don't need to be tied down with another aging striker's contract.
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Post by DeviAngel Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:37 pm

Juventude wrote:Ugh. I'm not a fan of this deal. This probably also means at least a 3 year contract with it since it doesn't sound like a loan deal. We don't need to be tied down with another aging striker's contract.

Tbh he is great player not world class but a great player 29 ... Iaquinta leaves and Quagli and Matri to I think this summer so replacing them with a st a class better why not ... we need him now
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Post by Juventude Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:42 pm

DeviAngel wrote:
Juventude wrote:Ugh. I'm not a fan of this deal. This probably also means at least a 3 year contract with it since it doesn't sound like a loan deal. We don't need to be tied down with another aging striker's contract.

Tbh he is great player not world class but a great player 29 ... Iaquinta leaves and Quagli and Matri to I think this summer so replacing them with a st a class better why not ... we need him now

He turns 30 in March. I would have been fine with players that are about 27. We need to get younger. To fix a short term depth problem, we're making a long term commitment to an aging player. It's like throwing money at a bad problem in my opinion. I have nothing against Lopez. It's just the situation in general.
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:45 pm

why pay abt 7m for him when we can offer that for Llorente instead and take him now?

Marotta :facepalm:
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Post by DeviAngel Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:45 pm

Juventude wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:
Juventude wrote:Ugh. I'm not a fan of this deal. This probably also means at least a 3 year contract with it since it doesn't sound like a loan deal. We don't need to be tied down with another aging striker's contract.

Tbh he is great player not world class but a great player 29 ... Iaquinta leaves and Quagli and Matri to I think this summer so replacing them with a st a class better why not ... we need him now

He turns 30 in March. I would have been fine with players that are about 27. We need to get younger. To fix a short term depth problem, we're making a long term commitment to an aging player. It's like throwing money at a bad problem in my opinion. I have nothing against Lopez. It's just the situation in general.

True I get what you are saying but desperate times call for desperate measures :/
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Post by Luca Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:53 pm

Juventude wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:
Juventude wrote:Ugh. I'm not a fan of this deal. This probably also means at least a 3 year contract with it since it doesn't sound like a loan deal. We don't need to be tied down with another aging striker's contract.

Tbh he is great player not world class but a great player 29 ... Iaquinta leaves and Quagli and Matri to I think this summer so replacing them with a st a class better why not ... we need him now

He turns 30 in March. I would have been fine with players that are about 27. We need to get younger. To fix a short term depth problem, we're making a long term commitment to an aging player. It's like throwing money at a bad problem in my opinion. I have nothing against Lopez. It's just the situation in general.

I disagree, Lisandro is at an age and maturity to instantly be inserted into the lineup and potentially make a great impact.
Young strikers? Immobile, Boakye and Gabbiadini- take your pick.

Pirlo is Juventus at the moment and he is 33 years old
I don't see any problem with signing a 29 year old striker if he can get the job done.

Lisandro Lopez
Good career, could be an interesting pick up, Champions League experience.

I would be delighted with the move at the moment for the sole reason it represents a little bit of ambition and although he is a risk it could yield high rewards.

As for Llorente, it has to occur to some that Bilbao's president just really doesn't want to sell. When egos enter football there are no winners.

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Post by dronte Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:59 pm

Thinking of all the money spent on mediocre strikers in the last few years.. we could have easily signed 1 or 2 big guns. And still, there is no solution for our striker woes, and Lopez will hardly fix it either, but probably he is still better than our current strikers (except Vucinic)

Not a long term solution, again.

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Post by DeviAngel Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:01 pm



He is very loyal something I love and respect
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Post by Luca Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:02 pm

dronte wrote:Thinking of all the money spent on mediocre strikers in the last few years.. we could have easily signed 1 or 2 big guns. And still, there is no solution for our striker woes, and Lopez will hardly fix it either, but probably he is still better than our current strikers (except Vucinic)

Not a long term solution, again.

In any case, Juventus wouldn't find that long term solution in January unless some sort of gross overpay happened

However, I 100% agree with you that the club has missed too many opportunities and are now suffering for it

Makes you realize what a Godsend that Del Piero was, spending that many years at the club playing at such a high level, that constant impact

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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:04 pm

Luca wrote:
dronte wrote:Thinking of all the money spent on mediocre strikers in the last few years.. we could have easily signed 1 or 2 big guns. And still, there is no solution for our striker woes, and Lopez will hardly fix it either, but probably he is still better than our current strikers (except Vucinic)

Not a long term solution, again.

In any case, Juventus wouldn't find that long term solution in January unless some sort of gross overpay happened

However, I 100% agree with you that the club has missed too many opportunities and are now suffering for it

Makes you realize what a Godsend that Del Piero was, spending that many years at the club playing at such a high level, that constant impact

how did u drop to 25% Luca?
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Post by Luca Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:10 pm

elmystique wrote:
Luca wrote:
dronte wrote:Thinking of all the money spent on mediocre strikers in the last few years.. we could have easily signed 1 or 2 big guns. And still, there is no solution for our striker woes, and Lopez will hardly fix it either, but probably he is still better than our current strikers (except Vucinic)

Not a long term solution, again.

In any case, Juventus wouldn't find that long term solution in January unless some sort of gross overpay happened

However, I 100% agree with you that the club has missed too many opportunities and are now suffering for it

Makes you realize what a Godsend that Del Piero was, spending that many years at the club playing at such a high level, that constant impact

how did u drop to 25% Luca?

transgressions in the general section

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Post by thegutterpoet Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:08 am

Luca wrote:
Juventude wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:

Tbh he is great player not world class but a great player 29 ... Iaquinta leaves and Quagli and Matri to I think this summer so replacing them with a st a class better why not ... we need him now

He turns 30 in March. I would have been fine with players that are about 27. We need to get younger. To fix a short term depth problem, we're making a long term commitment to an aging player. It's like throwing money at a bad problem in my opinion. I have nothing against Lopez. It's just the situation in general.

I disagree, Lisandro is at an age and maturity to instantly be inserted into the lineup and potentially make a great impact.
Young strikers? Immobile, Boakye and Gabbiadini- take your pick.

Pirlo is Juventus at the moment and he is 33 years old
I don't see any problem with signing a 29 year old striker if he can get the job done.

Lisandro Lopez
Good career, could be an interesting pick up, Champions League experience.

I would be delighted with the move at the moment for the sole reason it represents a little bit of ambition and although he is a risk it could yield high rewards.

As for Llorente, it has to occur to some that Bilbao's president just really doesn't want to sell. When egos enter football there are no winners.

Well put, Luca...

Although its got far less to do with Ego than an agreement between the BoD and President to stick to a certain policy. They purchase almost exclusively basque players, set the buy-out clauses and stick to them. if they let a player leave without the buy-out clause met, before the end of their contract when they didn't wish him to leave, it would set a precedent for other players and the integrity of the buy-out clauses they insert into contracts would be eroded.

Bilbao are in a position in which the 4m we have offered is not needed. It would be nice, of course, but so would of the 20-25m they potentially could have gained last summer for Llorente...

I respect their policy and integrity. Its mighty rare these days to see principles take centre stage over $$$$$.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if we actually got him, towards the end of the transfer window. He has hardly played this season, is often booed by the fans, despised by the manager, and bringing far too much negative attention and energy to the club for the owners not to be at least considering their options. The situation is turninhg nastier by the week it seems, so for all concerned, it may be best to break with tradition and do whats right for the Club, its fans, and lastly the player. Time will tell...
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Post by Luca Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:11 am

I meant more the fact that they are clinging to keep a player who obviously doesn't want to be there anymore.

That's what I meant by ego, but I do respect that they are in the financial position where they don't need to sell their best players

And it's also refreshing to see a club rally push for a contract to be respected

But from a business point of view, cash in while you can and progress from there without him with the team

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Post by thegutterpoet Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:24 am

Luca wrote:I meant more the fact that they are clinging to keep a player who obviously doesn't want to be there anymore.

That's what I meant by ego, but I do respect that they are in the financial position where they don't need to sell their best players

And it's also refreshing to see a club rally push for a contract to be respected

But from a business point of view, cash in while you can and progress from there without him with the team

My regrets for misinterpreting your earlier lines...as I see elsewhere and here, that you are exactly the kind of well informed, astute juventino whom I seek to engage with. Thumbs up
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Post by Juventude Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:46 pm

Luca wrote:
Juventude wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:

Tbh he is great player not world class but a great player 29 ... Iaquinta leaves and Quagli and Matri to I think this summer so replacing them with a st a class better why not ... we need him now

He turns 30 in March. I would have been fine with players that are about 27. We need to get younger. To fix a short term depth problem, we're making a long term commitment to an aging player. It's like throwing money at a bad problem in my opinion. I have nothing against Lopez. It's just the situation in general.

I disagree, Lisandro is at an age and maturity to instantly be inserted into the lineup and potentially make a great impact.
Young strikers? Immobile, Boakye and Gabbiadini- take your pick.

Pirlo is Juventus at the moment and he is 33 years old
I don't see any problem with signing a 29 year old striker if he can get the job done.

Lisandro Lopez
Good career, could be an interesting pick up, Champions League experience.

I would be delighted with the move at the moment for the sole reason it represents a little bit of ambition and although he is a risk it could yield high rewards.

As for Llorente, it has to occur to some that Bilbao's president just really doesn't want to sell. When egos enter football there are no winners.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, Luca. This strikes me as a rash decision that is ill-advised. When Juve can't cough up the extra 5-7 million this summer to sign a player like Jovetic, we'll see how happy people are with an aging striker whose skills are clearly declining.

I'm really lost when it comes to what we're gaining with Lopez besides some more depth at the striker position. He is not a great improvement over any of our strikers. Most of his critical numbers are down from the past few years. He has one assist on the season and three assists total in the last three seasons. To me, he's aging, his numbers are down, and he is inexperienced in Serie A. That type of player doesn't excite me. He really doesn't excite me to potentially be on our squad for three years if we purchase him.

We will have to wait and see if the move happens. I certainly hope it doesn't unless it's a loan.
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Post by Luca Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:57 pm

When the alternative is finishing the season with an impotent attack of 4.5 players while playing three competitions, I see the risk well-warranted.

If Juventus can make it one round further in the Champions League then that 5-7 million is replaced.
If they win the scudetto, the money is replaced with interest.
If they win the Coppa Italia, the money is replaced.

The team needs a change up front. Lisandro Lopez's name may have dropped off a bit from a couple seasons ago but to be honest, I've always been a fan of his. I think he's a very talented player that can make an impact.

Time will tell.

The thing I do know is that Juventus needs to improve its attack and in January it's impossible to economically sign a player like Jovetic, who is needed cannot be bought at this time. I'll take what I can get at the moment, this is the current mentality

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Post by Juventude Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:14 pm

Luca wrote:When the alternative is finishing the season with an impotent attack of 4.5 players while playing three competitions, I see the risk well-warranted.

If Juventus can make it one round further in the Champions League then that 5-7 million is replaced.
If they win the scudetto, the money is replaced with interest.
If they win the Coppa Italia, the money is replaced.

The team needs a change up front. Lisandro Lopez's name may have dropped off a bit from a couple seasons ago but to be honest, I've always been a fan of his. I think he's a very talented player that can make an impact.

Time will tell.

The thing I do know is that Juventus needs to improve its attack and in January it's impossible to economically sign a player like Jovetic, who is needed cannot be bought at this time. I'll take what I can get at the moment, this is the current mentality

I just don't see him improving the attack that much to be honest. All of these nice comments about him are great and everything, but his recent numbers are not all that different from our current strikers that have actually played in Serie A. So, in my opinion, to think that a declining player is just going to come into Serie A and Juventus's system and make a big impact, is not realistic.

His numbers are not that different from Boriello and it took a long time for him to have even a small impact for Juve last season and he is a career Serie A player. If the choice is 8 million for Lopez or no one and we save 8 million and more on salary, I choose no one. I think we're safer finishing with the four strikers we have if our only option is Lopez for 8 million.

Also, I guarantee we could resolve one of our loans or co-ownerships deals for less money and bring back a player that is younger and we won't regret his contract in two years. Hell, I'd rather bring Boriello back for cheaper than this move and I never thought I'd say those words.

I hope Marotta learned some lesson about having all of our young strikers out on loans or co-ownership deals. We should always have at least one young striker in our rotation. It doesn't have to be the best young striker, but keep at least one within the club.

We should just recall Martinez from loan. There you go, problem solved. Wink
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Post by Luca Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:26 pm

Holding a .50 (goal/game) ratio with two separate teams with over 100 appearances for each sounds like a massive improvement to me.

Having the lowest goal tally of 17 in all competitions for your past 5 seasons seems like an improvement to me as well.

Now, I'm not one for using stats as I absolutely detest relying on them to make a point.

But none of our strikers come close to comparing to that.
We don't have a consistent scorer like that.
Lisandro, at the very least, has shown that he is capable of being that player, with two separate clubs (both of which are massive clubs too), in two separate leagues.

Were talking about a proven player, he may not have the flashy name of Llorente or a Suarez but if he can potentially get the job done I'm all for it.

To be honest, this seems like it could a fantastic acquisition for the team.

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Post by Juventude Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:00 pm

Luca wrote:Holding a .50 (goal/game) ratio with two separate teams with over 100 appearances for each sounds like a massive improvement to me.

Having the lowest goal tally of 17 in all competitions for your past 5 seasons seems like an improvement to me as well.

Now, I'm not one for using stats as I absolutely detest relying on them to make a point.

But none of our strikers come close to comparing to that.
We don't have a consistent scorer like that.
Lisandro, at the very least, has shown that he is capable of being that player, with two separate clubs (both of which are massive clubs too), in two separate leagues.

Were talking about a proven player, he may not have the flashy name of Llorente or a Suarez but if he can potentially get the job done I'm all for it.

To be honest, this seems like it could a fantastic acquisition for the team.

If we're going to talk stats, I'm more interested in the drop in his numbers this season while still appearing in 15 of 20 matches. Plus, let's also talk about the quality of the defenses in Serie A vs. Ligue 1. Zlatan is averaging over a goal a game. That's just ridiculous. Granted, Zlatan has a good supporting cast around him, but Lyon has a pretty good group of players too. Also, Matri had a damn good goal scoring rate when he joined Juve and he was younger and on the rise. Now, look at him.

I'm not saying Lopez is a bad player. My problem is the money he will cost us now, his age, his declining skills, the contract he will sign that will probably keep him in Torino until he's 32-33, and the aging group of strikers that we already have on the squad. I have nothing against Lopez, it's the transfer when taken as a whole vs. the small benefit that I have a problem with.
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Post by DreadAndrea Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:11 pm

So so very well spoken luca + 100 for your view on this matter .

I dont get how this move could not be right in any way it is so very right every angel of it. first of all the age of lopez is not and can never be a problem as he is in his prime this half season and the next 3 to come it is unfounded BS that a player is in his prime when 26-29 as soo many seem to claim all the time its just not true. with this said of course he is not a future sales object for Juve to make money from but i could not care less we need a mature striker capable of handling the pressure of Juve and the extra pressure of coming as a sort of saviour.

Conte has his ways wich could very well bring lots of glory to Juve in the future but the fact is that he is very very defensive minded coach and to suit his tactics he need 2 world class strikers to complete his tactics. Im not sure lopez is up there as the world class saviour we need but without a shadow of a doubt is lopez a huge improvement of Juves current crappy strike force.


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Post by Luca Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:14 pm

Juventude wrote:
Luca wrote:Holding a .50 (goal/game) ratio with two separate teams with over 100 appearances for each sounds like a massive improvement to me.

Having the lowest goal tally of 17 in all competitions for your past 5 seasons seems like an improvement to me as well.

Now, I'm not one for using stats as I absolutely detest relying on them to make a point.

But none of our strikers come close to comparing to that.
We don't have a consistent scorer like that.
Lisandro, at the very least, has shown that he is capable of being that player, with two separate clubs (both of which are massive clubs too), in two separate leagues.

Were talking about a proven player, he may not have the flashy name of Llorente or a Suarez but if he can potentially get the job done I'm all for it.

To be honest, this seems like it could a fantastic acquisition for the team.

If we're going to talk stats, I'm more interested in the drop in his numbers this season while still appearing in 15 of 20 matches. Plus, let's also talk about the quality of the defenses in Serie A vs. Ligue 1. Zlatan is averaging over a goal a game. That's just ridiculous. Granted, Zlatan has a good supporting cast around him, but Lyon has a pretty good group of players too. Also, Matri had a damn good goal scoring rate when he joined Juve and he was younger and on the rise. Now, look at him.

I'm not saying Lopez is a bad player. My problem is the money he will cost us now, his age, his declining skills, the contract he will sign that will probably keep him in Torino until he's 32-33, and the aging group of strikers that we already have on the squad. I have nothing against Lopez, it's the transfer when taken as a whole vs. the small benefit that I have a problem with.

Matri, at the start of his Juventus career (his best stretch), was also a .50 ratio player and everyone was extremely satisfied with his play during that time.

Same goes for Quagliarella, who is our closest .50 (goal/game ratio) striker at the moment.

Anyways, Lopez has consistently done what he does for 5 seasons and that isn't a small achievement, he has more than solid numbers.

I agree with your problems although,
I don't see his age as a problem
It's arguable that his skills are declining, it's even more arguable to say he wouldn't be successful with this Juventus team if given the opportunity
We do have an aging group of strikers but we also have a core group of very young strikers, midfielders, defense and a goalkeeper- the squad should take care of itself soon

As for the transfer vs. small benefit
We really cannot measure the benefit of signing Lopez
If he came in and had half a season like Matri or Quagliarella did when joining Juventus would you complain?

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Post by Juventude Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:35 pm

Luca wrote:
Juventude wrote:
Luca wrote:Holding a .50 (goal/game) ratio with two separate teams with over 100 appearances for each sounds like a massive improvement to me.

Having the lowest goal tally of 17 in all competitions for your past 5 seasons seems like an improvement to me as well.

Now, I'm not one for using stats as I absolutely detest relying on them to make a point.

But none of our strikers come close to comparing to that.
We don't have a consistent scorer like that.
Lisandro, at the very least, has shown that he is capable of being that player, with two separate clubs (both of which are massive clubs too), in two separate leagues.

Were talking about a proven player, he may not have the flashy name of Llorente or a Suarez but if he can potentially get the job done I'm all for it.

To be honest, this seems like it could a fantastic acquisition for the team.

If we're going to talk stats, I'm more interested in the drop in his numbers this season while still appearing in 15 of 20 matches. Plus, let's also talk about the quality of the defenses in Serie A vs. Ligue 1. Zlatan is averaging over a goal a game. That's just ridiculous. Granted, Zlatan has a good supporting cast around him, but Lyon has a pretty good group of players too. Also, Matri had a damn good goal scoring rate when he joined Juve and he was younger and on the rise. Now, look at him.

I'm not saying Lopez is a bad player. My problem is the money he will cost us now, his age, his declining skills, the contract he will sign that will probably keep him in Torino until he's 32-33, and the aging group of strikers that we already have on the squad. I have nothing against Lopez, it's the transfer when taken as a whole vs. the small benefit that I have a problem with.

Matri, at the start of his Juventus career (his best stretch), was also a .50 ratio player and everyone was extremely satisfied with his play during that time.

Same goes for Quagliarella, who is our closest .50 (goal/game ratio) striker at the moment.

Anyways, Lopez has consistently done what he does for 5 seasons and that isn't a small achievement, he has more than solid numbers.

I agree with your problems although,
I don't see his age as a problem
It's arguable that his skills are declining, it's even more arguable to say he wouldn't be successful with this Juventus team if given the opportunity
We do have an aging group of strikers but we also have a core group of very young strikers, midfielders, defense and a goalkeeper- the squad should take care of itself soon

As for the transfer vs. small benefit
We really cannot measure the benefit of signing Lopez
If he came in and had half a season like Matri or Quagliarella did when joining Juventus would you complain?

It's a good question and my answer is I don't know. Now, I complain about Matri because he has sunk under Conte. My problem with Lopez isn't his ability to have success in the short term. He may very well be successful at Juve until June. My problem is whether 6-8 million is worth a half season's success. To me, it is not. It's especially not worth it for all of the other reasons I already stated.

Like I said before, to me, Juve is throwing money at a bad problem that won't be solved by purchasing Lopez. I'd rather see that money put aside for the summer in order to purchase a quality striker.

As I said earlier in this thread, I hope that Marotta cuts down his loans and co-ownership deals of our strikers and keeps at least one young striker on the squad and available.
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Post by Luca Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:25 pm

Very good point, but lets remember that 6-8 million for Lopez half of what was paid for Matri, and at least that is towards a proven player.

The thing with Lopez is, I believe he could be good enough to be a rotational player (which will always be needed), when a top striker comes.

It would leave us with:

Mr. X
Vucinic
Giovinco
Lopez
1 of Quagliarella/Matri (maybe neither, I would prefer Quagliarella but neither is suited to this role, Quagliarella has proved time and time again that when he plays a consistent stretch of games he scores, Matri has proven time and time again that he doesn't fit the system Conte advocates)

In any case, I like that attack going forward but it would still rest on a real quality striker coming in the summer

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