Re: Messi really surpass Ronaldo(Brazil) and Zidane?

by CBarca Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:02 pm

sportsczy wrote:
CBarca wrote:You guys rate Zidane with Maradona, Cruyff and all?

Come on. He's one of my favorite players ever despite playing for Madrid and I love the guy, but no...he is not up there. That would imply he is also on the same level as Messi, and he's clearly not.

that's the thing... he clearly is lol. you guys are comparing apples with oranges however. It's like comparing beckenbauer to messi or pele. The roles are so different that it's uncomparable. Zidane was the best CM that ever played the game. Messi is one of the best forward to ever play the game and could become the best.

these best ever lists are all bs imo. you need to pick an area of the pitch and list the best ever players by area.

No actually Messi, Maradona and Cruyff and those in that bracket are miles ahead of Zidane and I can't take you seriously if you think otherwise.

All due respect to Zidane, like I said I love the guy and I support the rivals of the team he played for, but he's just not as good as the top, top players in history.

by sportsczy Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:03 pm

do you agree or disagree that Zidane played a creative CM role and Figo was the creator for Madrid out of the midfield before Zidane joined? Because that's exactly what happened. Zidane just pushed Figo aside like a bad cold when he joined because he was a better creator/player and by a big margin. They created out of different areas in the midfield... but both were tasked with creating from the midfield area.

my contention is you can't compare drastically different pitch areas. if players' pitch areas overlap, even if not completely, then fair enough. But to compare keepers with defenders, defenders v midfielders, midfielders v forwards, etc.... it's assinine.

by Be/\/ceCALI Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:03 pm

The elegance and control Zidane had over the ball with both feet was really something to behold. Zidane was a master of football- whether you like him or not.

Just watch France v Brazil in '06 WC - the Brazilians could not take the ball from him. Zidane played a level above everyone in that game, at 34 years old. He carried that team on his back - sure, Henry scored the nice volleyed tap-in to win it, from Zidane's pass, but please re-watch that game and you will see the magician known as Zizou in action. 34 years old, playing against Brazil (top class opposition)

Why does R9 say that Zidane's the best player he's ever seen? Described him as "magic".. Yes, they were friends and played together, but surely R9 meant what he said. Zidane is one of the best players of all time, there's no question about it. The way he manipulated the movements of the ball, and how he read the game, dictated the tempo, was a step ahead of the opposition and teammates in his mind.. it was the closest thing to watching a perfect, complete player.

Zidane was unique - for me the best player of all time. Zidane is the player I miss watching the most, and football is just not the same. We would be lucky to see a player close to Zizou again..

by sportsczy Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:06 pm

and let me be honest.... i'm certainly not going to take the opinions of Barca fans very seriously when it comes to current and former Madrid players. Mole has admitted he's a barca fan after Newcastle too. I'll pay more attention to neutrals. That's just me though.

by The Franchise Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:58 pm

Equally, we arent going to listen to a Madrid fan talk about Zidane's standing in history for the exact same reason.

Honestly, no Barca fan can stand the sight of Figo..if Zidane was that much better, I would say so, believe it or not. But while he was better, he wasnt head and shoulders better like your claiming.

For Madrid, yeah he was obviously better. But Figo for Barca was indiviudally better than he was for Madrid, he was quicker, faster and more agile. The final year at Barca, he was amazing, better than Zidane was that same year at Juve.

Is he better than Zidane overall, obviously not. But to go from being better than Figo to comparable to Pele and co is quite a leap in my book.

by CBarca Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:02 pm

And a leap Zidane, for all his elegance and brilliance, falls short at.

by Arquitecto Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:35 pm

Whoever speaks that Zidane is as one of the all time best in his trade quite obviously hasnt seen Platini who in my opinion was twice as good as Zizou.

That's all I will say as it's late and I couldn't be bothered to make a constructive Post.

by DuringTheWar Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:40 pm

Zidane isn't pele/maradona level but it doesn't mean he is not an all time great. In 50 years there have been about 10 - maybe less - players that had both the talent and the achievements to match zidane. Some have one or the other more than zidane, but not many have both, so he deserves to be considered an all time great imo.

I agree a bit as well about comparing different positions, if two players offer completely different things to a team it's not always as simple to say one is better than the other. If you compare with messi, zidane offered better playmaking, and better first touch, messi offers better dribbling and goal threat, you aren't going to get a unanimous agreement to who's better, some people prefer different attributes to you.

case in point

www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-zidane-was-the-best-I-ever-played-against-

by Be/\/ceCALI Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:50 pm

I've seen Platini play and imo he's nowhere near "twice as good" as Zizou, and imo he's not superior to Zidane ability-wise or based on accomplishments.

Also I agree with DAM about comparing positions.. Messi, Pele, Maradona, Cruyff were much better goalscorers than Zidane, and were all much quicker in accelerating and dribbling at high-speeds. These were never Zidane's strengths..

Zidane was the most two-footed player i've ever seen, with the best first touch, control, and composure in the game. If you hadn't known before, you can never tell which foot Zizou preferred because he was equally adept at using both left and right to maximum effect. Maybe Zidane wasn't as much of an individual threat on goal like Messi for example, or a goal-machine and speed demon like Pele, but Zidane was so good overall that his play lifted the team around him to a higher level. Zidane is more suitable for comparison to Ronaldinho playing at his very best.

I've never seen a player be in such control of a game as i've seen with Zidane. Not even Messi.

by chinomaster182 Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:10 pm

Anyways getting back to the topic at hand, i think Messi has now objectively won his place in the Pele, Maradona bracket.

If he ever wins the World cup i want to see what everyone excuses will be.

by 7amood11 Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:22 pm

chinomaster182 wrote:Anyways getting back to the topic at hand, i think Messi has now objectively won his place in the Pele, Maradona bracket.

If he ever wins the World cup i want to see what everyone excuses will be.

Yes. No neutral can argue against Messi NOT being in that bracket.

by The Sanchez Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:42 pm

I think Messi was already greater than these two players before he won this award and since when did winning awards means your the greatest player?

by Beautiful Football Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:42 pm

Be/\/ceCALI wrote:I've seen Platini play and imo he's nowhere near "twice as good" as Zizou, and imo he's not superior to Zidane ability-wise or based on accomplishments.

Also I agree with DAM about comparing positions.. Messi, Pele, Maradona, Cruyff were much better goalscorers than Zidane, and were all much quicker in accelerating and dribbling at high-speeds. These were never Zidane's strengths..

Zidane was the most two-footed player i've ever seen, with the best first touch, control, and composure in the game. If you hadn't known before, you can never tell which foot Zizou preferred because he was equally adept at using both left and right to maximum effect. Maybe Zidane wasn't as much of an individual threat on goal like Messi for example, or a goal-machine and speed demon like Pele, but Zidane was so good overall that his play lifted the team around him to a higher level. Zidane is more suitable for comparison to Ronaldinho playing at his very best.

I've never seen a player be in such control of a game as i've seen with Zidane. Not even Messi.

Mate there is no way Zidane was better than platini any juv fans will confirm you. Platini individually best
french player of all time.before 1986 he considered better than maradona and it says all i have to know.

by Donuts Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:53 pm

It's only normal for people today to say Zidane is one of the best in the world of all time because look at the ages, most of these posters were 9-13 when Zidane was at his prime.
Everything seems better when you are younger.

by Alex10 Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:51 pm

Messi's second undeserved Ballon D'or after 2010. He didn't win anything important this year.

by Valkyrja Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:16 am

Donuts wrote:It's only normal for people today to say Zidane is one of the best in the world of all time because look at the ages, most of these posters were 9-13 when Zidane was at his prime.
Everything seems better when you are younger.

you were 13 when zidane retired

by Donuts Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:40 am

likeastar wrote:
Donuts wrote:It's only normal for people today to say Zidane is one of the best in the world of all time because look at the ages, most of these posters were 9-13 when Zidane was at his prime.
Everything seems better when you are younger.

you were 13 when zidane retired

captain obvious my age has irrelevance and I am not making fun of anyone for having bias just stating why people have it which is everything seems better when its older, people like to reminisce on older memories and tend to believe that is the best no matter who comes up or what, music for example your parents most likely hate todays music and claim back then was better.

by Collblanc Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:47 am

Alex10 wrote:Messi's second undeserved Ballon D'or after 2010. He didn't win anything important this year.

Individual award, not team-wise.

by The Franchise Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:50 am

chinomaster182 wrote:Anyways getting back to the topic at hand, i think Messi has now objectively won his place in the Pele, Maradona bracket.

If he ever wins the World cup i want to see what everyone excuses will be.

Now?

Because of this 4th Ballon D'or?

by Casciavit Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:58 am

Donuts wrote:
likeastar wrote:
Donuts wrote:It's only normal for people today to say Zidane is one of the best in the world of all time because look at the ages, most of these posters were 9-13 when Zidane was at his prime.
Everything seems better when you are younger.

you were 13 when zidane retired
captain obvious my age has irrelevance and I am not making fun of anyone for having bias just stating why people have it which is everything seems better when its older, people like to reminisce on older memories and tend to believe that is the best no matter who comes up or what, music for example your parents most likely hate todays music and claim back then was better.

+1

by CrazyBoy Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:59 am

Zidane was great, amazing player, possibly the greatest of his era as he outperformed all of his rivals (three Rs) when he face Brazil, Portugal(Figo), but I disagree with everyone who thinks he was better/at level than/with Platini, Zico or Maradona(just bringing AMs since Sportsczy thinks we cannot compare forwards with midfielders:D). These guys could contol the game like Zizou did, Platini was a better conductor of the game than Zizou, plus they scored and assisted much more than Ziou could dream, and at regular basis.

As for the thread Messi for me is already a better than either of these, with or without this joke of an award. Dont care if wins WC or not.

by Casciavit Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:12 am

Messi is in the bracket of Pele and Maradona, if not better, and has definitely surpassed Ronaldo and Zidane.

Zidane top 3 of all time? He's in the class of Michael Laudrup or around that. I think Laudrup is better personally though. But not by much.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:17 am

Di Stefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, Messi.

this is it for me, the 5 greatest, the rest comes behind.

by Ganso Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:03 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:Di Stefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, Messi.

this is it for me, the 5 greatest, the rest comes behind.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:09 am

What Nick said also no one denied Zidane wasn't an all time great he obviously is but better than the names Nick said? No.

All Free and other Barca fans have said is that he's closer to Figo than he is to Pele, Di Stefano etc etc and i don't see anything wrong with that personally.

He's obviously still better than Figo and the likes but my problem comes when discussing Zidane is the people that think he's up there with Pele.

He simply isn't and now i have made that clear i don't wish to discuss it ever again Laughing

by RealGunner Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:54 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:What Nick said also no one denied Zidane wasn't an all time great he obviously is but better than the names Nick said? No.

All Free and other Barca fans have said is that he's closer to Figo than he is to Pele, Di Stefano etc etc and i don't see anything wrong with that personally.

Free said he isn't better than Shevchenko

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