How would Ronaldo and Neymar do at Barca?

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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:26 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Se7en wrote:this thread is a joke so far

CR has better if not equal passing with Gomez and Gomez seems to thrive with a possession based team, why wouldnt CR work in barca?

none cares about your passing if you score 50 goals nick, it's not passes that wins you games, it's your goals that matter

so scoring the sixth goal of a 6-0 drubbing of zaragoza means that you are a great tactical fit at barca? dat football logic

:facepalm:

:facepalm:
:facepalm:
:facepalm:

Ok. Let's take a look at one of ronaldo's games that is quite average by his standards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wsKu-2L7no

If you think the first minute is not good build up/link up play, then you were dropped as a baby honestly.

He takes 2-3 touches on the ball max and releases it quickly

3:33.. yeah.. gomez on the wing Rolling Eyes

Abra lol you know nothing about barca's overall play. Don't even start :brickwall:

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Post by Harmonica Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:19 pm

OLpower wrote:Ronaldo would do absolutely great in Barcelona, and in all clubs he would play. He is at this level of talent, above everyone else not named Messi. In fact, he would maybe even outscore Messi with all the Barcelona sitters he would receive.
In Barca Cronaldo would get less shots, less tap-ins and less penalties than in Madrid, yet he would score more? Laughing

In Barca Messi helps to build more than half of his own goals, in Madrid Cronaldo gets 4/5 of his goals served to him.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:24 pm



Now, if you take a look at this video, you can clearly see
A)quaresma can defend and tackle better than maldini
B)can dribble like cruyff on drugs
C)can make passes like alonso
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Post by The Sanchez Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:33 pm

OLpower wrote:Ronaldo has succeed at Manchester and Real Madrid, while being good with portugal as well. Messi has only ever be good with Barcelona.

In my opinion, speaking about adaptation to another system, Messi is a bigger question mark.

Ronaldo has done better than Messi on the international stage? I don't know what you have been watching...

The Ostracised One wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Cristiano would never work for us, this is silly.

The problem is Madrid/Cristiano fans think thats some kind of knock on him, like it makes him a lesser player than he is...which is false, it didnt for Ibra either.

But being great doesnt mean you always fit, he clearly does not.

First of all he shoots 11 time a game or something absurd, for us you can cut that in half. Either he doesnt and we suck or he does and he has nothing like the effect he has now. And thats what he does well.

Going into what he doesnt do well, I could write for 10 minutes.

Again, doesnt make him less of a player, but he would struggle horribly for us, or the entire team would.

/Thread

This. :coffee:

We haven't even talked about Neymar yet... :facepalm:
This thread :facepalm: rofl :coffee:
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Post by Onyx Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:16 am

Again, why does it matter how he plays currently?

He'd have to play differently at Barca.

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Post by The Sanchez Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:19 am

Yohan Modric wrote:Again, why does it matter how he plays currently?

He'd have to play differently at Barca.

It would be hard and take a long time for him to adapt to our system plus he would work twice as hard at Barca... He would regularly have to track back, challenge for balls etc. Also, the fact that he likes to be star for everyone to work through him would also disadvantage him playing alongside Messi.
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Post by Onyx Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:29 am

The Sanchez wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Again, why does it matter how he plays currently?

He'd have to play differently at Barca.

It would be hard and take a long time for him to adapt to our system plus he would work twice as hard at Barca... He would regularly have to track back, challenge for balls etc. Also, the fact that he likes to be star for everyone to work through him would also disadvantage him playing alongside Messi.

So would it only take Ronaldo long to adapt to the system or every new player?

And he does track back nowadays.

Ronaldo's not going to be copy and pasted from Real Madrid to Barca, with all his current instructions from Mourinho.

He'll get new ones at Barca. I'm sure Ronaldo would understand not everything would go through him at Barca.

Besides, it doesn't really go through him at Real Madrid anyway. It's just it seems that way because he's the top scorer etc. I mean Mourinho might have built it around him, I'm not entirely sure.

Also players can change.

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Post by jibers Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:39 am

Right lets just follow the thread. The question is how will Ronaldo and Neymar both fare at THIS curent Barcelona?

Well lets get one thing straight, Messi likes to play centrally, He does not like people playing in his space and text Pep specifically that if he did not play in the middle, he did not want to play. The team plays for Messi. Messi is the man who finishes off most moves in Barcelona and before a superstar like Villa joined, he was told that he would have to play for Messi. So there, you can only have one, amd so that automatically indvalidates Ronaldo.

Tactically, Ronaldo would just not fit in. I mean he would score goals, but nowhere near this level. He would get into Messi's space. Contrary to popular belief, Ronaldo is not a winger and stopped being a winger between 2006 and 2007. He isn't a pure inside forward either like Pedro and Villa were. He is essentially a striker that starts off wide, but a lot of his goals and movement is through the middle. A wingers job is to provide crosses from the byline (ala Garteh Bale last few season, not this season though, at least not as much). Ronaldo doesn't really run down the line and cross as his primary objective. He makes runs in behind the defebce and most of the time, especially last season he exploited the space behind defence line left due to Madrid hitting them quickly on the break.

Now Barcelona wngers are required to A) Provide the width B) Make runs that open up space for Messi C) Press constantly high up and track the full back regularly. Now A) and B) are both for Messi. Now, this is a man that is 'sad at Real Madrid' because he didn't get enough support. He feels the fans don't like him at Madrid. So when he goes to Barcelona, what support will he get? He is the current face of Real Madrid and would be hated beyond belief, Barcelona players don't like him and can anyone here with a brain tell me that Ronaldo is willing to play for Messi? Anyone that says yes to the last question, kindly go to America, buy a gun, and point it at your head because you will offer humanity nothing...

Based on the evidence I have seen, Ronaldo will not track back constantly. The only time he did this in Madrid is after the terrible Barcelona games, and he asked the players what he should do so that the fans would stop booing him, he proceeded to track back for a few games, the fans cheered for him, then all that stopped. I will give you a history lesson. In the 2008 champions league final, Ronaldo did well in th first half when he bamboozled Essien. Guess what happened after that. Essien readjusted and had Ronaldo in his back pocket the whole game. Not only that, but Essien started surging forward and added more bodies to Chelseas midfield, guess what, Ronaldo never tracked him. That led to Lampards equaliser and the same problem happened throughout the game and we were lucky Drogba got sent off because CHelsea really were the better team over 180 minutes.

This is why Ronaldo was deployed as a centre forward for a lot of our games. So that this nonsense didnt happen regularly. I mean another game was the Porto game. First leg Ronaldo played wide, Ally Cisskho raped us, second leg Rooney played wide and tracked him back...

Same thing with the Bayern game where you could see Lahms overlap led top Gomez's winner in the first leg. Same thing happened in the Dortmund game, where again Ronaldo didnt track back, in most Classicos Alves as dominated the flanks, what was Ronaldo doing? I mean is it a coincidence that Mou's only victory against a full strength Barcelona came when Ronaldo played up front in the Copa del Ray final? Now ask yourself, is it a a tactical instruction? Will Ronaldo suddenly change his attitude that has been going on for almost 7 years for Barcelona? Again, using deductive reasoning, I don't think so.

Now people are saying Sanchez is a flop, Well I don't think he is, more to do with Barcelona's system and what is required of them. Sanchez played well for Udinese because he had a lot of space to exploit due to Udinese being a counter attacking team. At Barcelona, he is coming up against a wall everytime. Barcelona have to use combination moves to score goals most of the time as teams don't usually play that high a line and try to keep their back lines in position. Ronaldo needs space, even more so than Sanchez to operate. I mean Ronaldo was dribbling well in the EPL because of the space between the lines and how easy EPL defenders commited themselves. Its no surpirse that in pretty much all our big games, he flopped. I will pick Arsenal, Clichy had him in his back pocket in both games because he matched Ronaldo for Pace. Chelsea were always compact and so Ronaldo rarely found space do damage them. Liverpool away Ronaldo did absolutely nothing because under Rafa they were compact. Return leg he scored a header from a corner but was anonymous.

Son for Ronaldo to be at his absolute best, he needs space and room to run, things which they rarely get in Barcelona. So yes, I do not think he would score anywere near his current goal tally. In fact I reckon he would score just about 20. Ronaldo has the highest shot rate in Europe for the last 3 seasons, and he has the highest shots in EUROs History, so he will carry on shooting from stupid situations, something that is completely against Barcelonas patient play, so will he change something he has been doing for almost 7 years? Again, through deductive reasoning, I doubt it. How would the Barcelona players react? probably hate him more if that is possible. Now if he played in the 08/09 Barcelona he would have suited them much better because teams treated Barcelolna as equals and attacked them so Barcelona had a lot of space behind the defence. Now they really don't which is what makes them exceptional. We saw what happened when this started happening, Henry wasn't the same player as he had less space to operate. Now we can even see this at Madrid. Ronaldo is struggling now because a lot of teams are now sitting very deep. In fact Madrid players have complained that Mourinho doesnt have a solution when oppositions do this to Madrid and they have no options and look lacklustre against a team that sits deep. Now look at goal Ronaldo socred against Refchester Shitty, that was classic Ronaldo, give him space and he will rape your team. No space, no game.

Again, Messi will take free kicks, Messi will take penalties, which would take away a bulk of Ronaldos goals. So yes, from all this, I can conclude Ronaldo would not be a good fit in Barcelona, his strengths will be rarely utilised. His traits would have to change, his mentalityu would have to change and he would have to be in service to the false ostraciser, Messi. Look at my sig, starting anti clockwise what are all those guys doing bar Nerman? Bench. Ronaldo would get frustrated like Villa, even worse and would become sad at Barcelona.

Neymar would be a better fit, but not by much. Neymar is best when he plays on the left and so he would have no problems in his position. He is good in tight spaces and could provide that extra Fantasisti Barcelona are lacking when they face teams like Inter and Chelsea. My problem is that how would Neymar adapt after being allowed to free role in Santos? Ganso could probably answer this better than me. Hois coach thinks he would fit Barcelona better than Madrid. I think its the oposite. From what I've seen it will be more
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:53 am

Didnt we have this dumb "debate" already?

New year but no new material?
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Post by rwo power Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:53 am

The Ostracised One wrote:Now Barcelona wngers are required to A) Provide the width B) Make runs that open up space for Messi C) Press constantly high up and track the full back regularly.
For something totally different... From that profile, I think Thomas Müller might really nicely fit in there.
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Post by Abramovich Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:55 am

Think this thread shows that Madrid fans or maybe it's Ronaldo fan boys are the worst on the forum I mean that system quote from seven is almost as bad as the striker pace one from gig.

It really does feel like sciccas spirit lives on with these guys Laughing.
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Post by Onyx Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:00 am

The Ostracised One wrote:Right lets just follow the thread. The question is how will Ronaldo and Neymar both fare at THIS curent Barcelona?

Well lets get one thing straight, Messi likes to play centrally, He does not like people playing in his space and text Pep specifically that if he did not play in the middle, he did not want to play. The team plays for Messi. Messi is the man who finishes off most moves in Barcelona and before a superstar like Villa joined, he was told that he would have to play for Messi. So there, you can only have one, amd so that automatically indvalidates Ronaldo.

Tactically, Ronaldo would just not fit in. I mean he would score goals, but nowhere near this level. He would get into Messi's space. Contrary to popular belief, Ronaldo is not a winger and stopped being a winger between 2006 and 2007. He isn't a pure inside forward either like Pedro and Villa were. He is essentially a striker that starts off wide, but a lot of his goals and movement is through the middle. A wingers job is to provide crosses from the byline (ala Garteh Bale last few season, not this season though, at least not as much). Ronaldo doesn't really run down the line and cross as his primary objective. He makes runs in behind the defebce and most of the time, especially last season he exploited the space behind defence line left due to Madrid hitting them quickly on the break.

Now Barcelona wngers are required to A) Provide the width B) Make runs that open up space for Messi C) Press constantly high up and track the full back regularly. Now A) and B) are both for Messi. Now, this is a man that is 'sad at Real Madrid' because he didn't get enough support. He feels the fans don't like him at Madrid. So when he goes to Barcelona, what support will he get? He is the current face of Real Madrid and would be hated beyond belief, Barcelona players don't like him and can anyone here with a brain tell me that Ronaldo is willing to play for Messi? Anyone that says yes to the last question, kindly go to America, buy a gun, and point it at your head because you will offer humanity nothing...

Based on the evidence I have seen, Ronaldo will not track back constantly. The only time he did this in Madrid is after the terrible Barcelona games, and he asked the players what he should do so that the fans would stop booing him, he proceeded to track back for a few games, the fans cheered for him, then all that stopped. I will give you a history lesson. In the 2008 champions league final, Ronaldo did well in th first half when he bamboozled Essien. Guess what happened after that. Essien readjusted and had Ronaldo in his back pocket the whole game. Not only that, but Essien started surging forward and added more bodies to Chelseas midfield, guess what, Ronaldo never tracked him. That led to Lampards equaliser and the same problem happened throughout the game and we were lucky Drogba got sent off because CHelsea really were the better team over 180 minutes.

This is why Ronaldo was deployed as a centre forward for a lot of our games. So that this nonsense didnt happen regularly. I mean another game was the Porto game. First leg Ronaldo played wide, Ally Cisskho raped us, second leg Rooney played wide and tracked him back...

Same thing with the Bayern game where you could see Lahms overlap led top Gomez's winner in the first leg. Same thing happened in the Dortmund game, where again Ronaldo didnt track back, in most Classicos Alves as dominated the flanks, what was Ronaldo doing? I mean is it a coincidence that Mou's only victory against a full strength Barcelona came when Ronaldo played up front in the Copa del Ray final? Now ask yourself, is it a a tactical instruction? Will Ronaldo suddenly change his attitude that has been going on for almost 7 years for Barcelona? Again, using deductive reasoning, I don't think so.

Now people are saying Sanchez is a flop, Well I don't think he is, more to do with Barcelona's system and what is required of them. Sanchez played well for Udinese because he had a lot of space to exploit due to Udinese being a counter attacking team. At Barcelona, he is coming up against a wall everytime. Barcelona have to use combination moves to score goals most of the time as teams don't usually play that high a line and try to keep their back lines in position. Ronaldo needs space, even more so than Sanchez to operate. I mean Ronaldo was dribbling well in the EPL because of the space between the lines and how easy EPL defenders commited themselves. Its no surpirse that in pretty much all our big games, he flopped. I will pick Arsenal, Clichy had him in his back pocket in both games because he matched Ronaldo for Pace. Chelsea were always compact and so Ronaldo rarely found space do damage them. Liverpool away Ronaldo did absolutely nothing because under Rafa they were compact. Return leg he scored a header from a corner but was anonymous.

Son for Ronaldo to be at his absolute best, he needs space and room to run, things which they rarely get in Barcelona. So yes, I do not think he would score anywere near his current goal tally. In fact I reckon he would score just about 20. Ronaldo has the highest shot rate in Europe for the last 3 seasons, and he has the highest shots in EUROs History, so he will carry on shooting from stupid situations, something that is completely against Barcelonas patient play, so will he change something he has been doing for almost 7 years? Again, through deductive reasoning, I doubt it. How would the Barcelona players react? probably hate him more if that is possible. Now if he played in the 08/09 Barcelona he would have suited them much better because teams treated Barcelolna as equals and attacked them so Barcelona had a lot of space behind the defence. Now they really don't which is what makes them exceptional. We saw what happened when this started happening, Henry wasn't the same player as he had less space to operate. Now we can even see this at Madrid. Ronaldo is struggling now because a lot of teams are now sitting very deep. In fact Madrid players have complained that Mourinho doesnt have a solution when oppositions do this to Madrid and they have no options and look lacklustre against a team that sits deep. Now look at goal Ronaldo socred against Refchester Shitty, that was classic Ronaldo, give him space and he will rape your team. No space, no game.

Again, Messi will take free kicks, Messi will take penalties, which would take away a bulk of Ronaldos goals. So yes, from all this, I can conclude Ronaldo would not be a good fit in Barcelona, his strengths will be rarely utilised. His traits would have to change, his mentalityu would have to change and he would have to be in service to the false ostraciser, Messi. Look at my sig, starting anti clockwise what are all those guys doing bar Nerman? Bench. Ronaldo would get frustrated like Villa, even worse and would become sad at Barcelona.

Neymar would be a better fit, but not by much. Neymar is best when he plays on the left and so he would have no problems in his position. He is good in tight spaces and could provide that extra Fantasisti Barcelona are lacking when they face teams like Inter and Chelsea. My problem is that how would Neymar adapt after being allowed to free role in Santos? Ganso could probably answer this better than me. Hois coach thinks he would fit Barcelona better than Madrid. I think its the oposite. From what I've seen it will be more

Villa was a CF before, so that's why he 'had to' play for Messi. By that it meant he had to move out wide. Ronaldo is already a LW. So there's no problem there.

A winger isn't just someone who runs down the wing and crosses it in. There's different sorts of wingers. Ronaldo is an inside forward winger, Silva is a playmaker winger and then there's basic crossing wingers. Ronaldo isn't a striker just because he scores goals.

This isn't really about moving to Barca, it's more about whether he'd tactically fit in. Originally my argument kinda was whether he'd tactically fit in. Not whether the fans would love him etc etc. But then I started discussing all that.

Ronaldo does track back and he's capable of doing so. He has to and I'm sure he'd understand it's part of Barca's system. Besides, how do we know it isn't Mourinho instructing Ronaldo to stay up or track back?

Barca don't rely on their wingers to produce the magic. Their job is mainly to score goals. So I'm not sure about all this space stuff.

My point is he'd work in the inside forward role, because he pretty much is an inside forward. He doesn't really rely on dribbling or creativity etc. He's a goalscorer nowadays from the wing.

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Post by Lupi Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:06 am

smoking it might take a long time for CR7 to adapt into the system of Barcelona
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:12 am

MT please stop.

Winger.

Look at the name for godness sake.

WING-er.

Someone who plays on the wing, does what he specializes in..on the WING.

There is no such a thing called inside winger, playmaker winger and all this other crap.

I really would like to educate you further but im afraid it would fall on deaf ears.
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Post by the xcx Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:16 am

Only in GL Laughing.
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Post by FalcaoPunch Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:17 am

Franchise has a good point.

There's only winger. Everything else you mentioned really falls on the type of player/how they play that is on the wings.


Last edited by FalcaoPunch on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:17 am

rwo power wrote:
The Ostracised One wrote:Now Barcelona wngers are required to A) Provide the width B) Make runs that open up space for Messi C) Press constantly high up and track the full back regularly.
For something totally different... From that profile, I think Thomas Müller might really nicely fit in there.

I agree actually but we all know Bayern would never sell him to anyone for any sort of money.
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:18 am

Good post jibs. I'll reply to it soon, don't have enough time atm
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Post by the xcx Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:20 am

Cant belive some people are giving a lecture about how football works when its differs from people end to end. There is no "one way".
Its easy to spectate and look for faults.
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Post by FalcaoPunch Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:22 am

Well I guess the Ronaldo situation as been discussed long enough.


Let's elaborate a bit more on Neymar. Which with every day that passes seems very likely he will play there soon.
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Post by jibers Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:23 am

The Franchise wrote:MT please stop.

Winger.

Look at the name for godness sake.

WING-er.

Someone who plays on the wing, does what he specializes in..on the WING.

There is no such a thing called inside winger, playmaker winger and all this other crap.

I really would like to educate you further but im afraid it would fall on deaf ears.

Don't bother. I don't care what anyone says this guy is cluless. I'm sorry. There are opinions, then there is MT.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:29 am

The xcx wrote:Cant belive some people are giving a lecture about how football works when its differs from people end to end. There is no "one way".
Its easy to spectate and look for faults.

Its not like you to hide behind "people"

Yes. I am giving lectures, because people need it.

There is no "one way" and there are many different opinions. But there is also this thing called logic, you might want to look into it.

How can someone be a winger and not actually do what they do on the wing.


Last edited by The Franchise on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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How would Ronaldo and Neymar do at Barca? - Page 3 Empty Re: How would Ronaldo and Neymar do at Barca?

Post by Abramovich Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:33 am

Well some people need to understand that real life football isn't a game like Fifa, footballers are not robots, even in football manager for example you can tell them to do something. It doesn't mean they will and this point truly fails to commute to some dumb people.

On with Neymar fitting I think he's brilliant on the left, i don't believe he has quite the ego or primmadonna of Ronaldo but that is yet to be proper seen as I don't watch him as often as Ronaldo. Hs ability with the ball in terms of being able to beat a man with skill moves and dribbles, imo would be a new x factor or something in terms of doing it from the wing and breaking down teams that park the bus. Him being able to beat a man in tight spaces can also disrupt a defensive shape when/if additional defenders come to close him down and his passing and vision seems good to me.
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How would Ronaldo and Neymar do at Barca? - Page 3 Empty Re: How would Ronaldo and Neymar do at Barca?

Post by rwo power Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:50 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
rwo power wrote:
The Ostracised One wrote:Now Barcelona wngers are required to A) Provide the width B) Make runs that open up space for Messi C) Press constantly high up and track the full back regularly.
For something totally different... From that profile, I think Thomas Müller might really nicely fit in there.
I agree actually but we all know Bayern would never sell him to anyone for any sort of money.
Sure. I was just looking at it from the tactical fit. And mind you, with Messi's number of assists and Müller's number of assists, they would probably manage to amount to even greater loads of goals, especially as they both know perfectly when to assist and when to take a shot. Pity one will likely never see that in action (or maybe if they'd play together in some charity world XI thingy one day).
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How would Ronaldo and Neymar do at Barca? - Page 3 Empty Re: How would Ronaldo and Neymar do at Barca?

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:55 am

Yeah tactically he fits them as much as anyone i can think of, mind you hes a very intelligent footballer i think he can fit most systems and set ups you ask of him.

While we are on the subject of German players, Gotze would probably fit them to a tee also.
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Post by rwo power Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:05 am

Hm. Not so sure about Götze as he might occupy similar spaces as Messi and thus they could get into each others way. If you look at the German NT, Özil and Götze together never really worked out either so far.
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