Some basic football questions from a noob:)

+17
CBarca
RedOranje
FennecFox7
REWB
mr-r34
chinomaster182
Lex
justdoit_
barca 2011
rwo power
Ganso
sportsczy
Jay29
RealGunner
Die Borussen
Onyx
scotladd
21 posters

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by scotladd Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:54 pm

I won't go into the whole story of my noobness (posted it in the introduction thread) to avoid redundancy, but suffice to say I am pretty new to the sport, as you will see from the questions below. I appreciate you taking the time to read them and respond if you choose:)

1) I was told MLS has a pretty restrictive salary cap which prohibits American teams from aquiring top tier talent. How true is this, and if so, why do they have a salary cap?

2) I see all the leagues across the world, why exactly is it that there isn't one big league? One where Barcelona and Liverpool would play each other every year? Or Real Madrid would travel to the US an play the Galaxy? I understand the Champion's Cup accomplishes this for the top teams, but if you dont qualify you don't play obviously.

3) I hear about different "levels" of leagues (MLS, La Liga etc.) is the competition really THAT different? If so why is there such a competitive gap between "professional" leagues?

4) In American sports, we have "developmental" leagues (minor league baseball, basketball developmental leagues etc.) are there such things in football? Leagues and teams that exist solely for the talent development of more senior leagues?

5) Why is it that America just does not contribute top tier talent to professional football? I know there are a handful of players who did make the transition internationally, but why is it so disproportionate?

6) What are the most competitive leagues in the world, and in what order? I gravitate toward Barclays, but to be honest that is probably just because that is what is marketed to me here in the States, is La Liga or Bundesliga better? Are there leagues that are on the same level as the few I mentioned?

Again, thanks for whatever you have time to read an answer. For those who will ask, I have done alot of research myself, but sometimes google only returns results that are pretty jaded and biased. Wikipedia is informational when it comes to history, but some of my questions need a little more info than what I can find.
scotladd
scotladd
Prospect
Prospect

Club Supported : Lyon
Posts : 54
Join date : 2012-12-30
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by Onyx Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:02 pm

1. So teams can be at a similar level I guess?

2. A country has an individual league. Liverpool are from England so play in the EPL, Barcelona are from Spain so are in La Liga.

3. Players want to play for the bigger clubs. Plus they get better wages etc.

4. Yeh, clubs have youth teams.

5. I guess it's because MLS isn't all that popular.

6. EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and Ligue 1 are the most popular leagues.


Onyx
Forum Legend
Forum Legend

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 40110
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by Die Borussen Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:18 pm

one big league would certainly affect the player's conditions as the travelling would occur weekly and depending on the distance for the physical consequences

i wouldn't say la liga is more competitive than arguably many leagues out there due to the presence of real madrid and barcelona but it surely is a level ahead in terms of quality, epl would be a better example as the gap* isnt as big

id say the most competitive ones right now are serie a, ligue 1 and EPL

Die Borussen
Banned (Permanent)

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 3442
Join date : 2012-01-17

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by RealGunner Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:24 pm

1) I was told MLS has a pretty restrictive salary cap which prohibits American teams from aquiring top tier talent. How true is this, and if so, why do they have a salary cap?

MLS does indeed have a salary cap. The reason for that is because it makes the league fair in terms of players because it makes each club spend the same amount and no one has an advantage over the other.

2) I see all the leagues across the world, why exactly is it that there isn't one big league? One where Barcelona and Liverpool would play each other every year? Or Real Madrid would travel to the US an play the Galaxy? I understand the Champion's Cup accomplishes this for the top teams, but if you dont qualify you don't play obviously.

Every country has it's own football league system, where the rules are unique and differs from each other. Also having a one massive league can not work because there are A LOT of leagues and it's not possible for everyone to play each other. There is a European League called the Champions league where the top teams play each other. It is a good way to do that because it makes each league competitive and all the teams try to finish in the top 2-3-4 to qualify for the CL.

3) I hear about different "levels" of leagues (MLS, La Liga etc.) is the competition really THAT different? If so why is there such a competitive gap between "professional" leagues?

The competition is different in each league. It's different styles, different traditions. That's what makes each league unique. The competition gap between the leagues is different because of the clubs and their quality in each league. Some leagues have 1 or 2 big clubs while other leagues have many. Quality in one league can be very high while in other league it can be low etc

4) In American sports, we have "developmental" leagues (minor league baseball, basketball developmental leagues etc.) are there such things in football? Leagues and teams that exist solely for the talent development of more senior leagues?

Yea every league has a youth system. There are youth competitions as well.

5) Why is it that America just does not contribute top tier talent to professional football? I know there are a handful of players who did make the transition internationally, but why is it so disproportionate?

MLS was not always the top league in the past. I guess it wasn't focused upon much as it is now. You can see more players are now coming out of the MLS than they were in the past. For example Bradley, Geoff Cameron, Tim Howard, Brek shea even. Also it can be that players prefer to stay in the MLS rather than moving. In any case With the development getting better now, i think we will see more proportionate contribution.

6) What are the most competitive leagues in the world, and in what order? I gravitate toward Barclays, but to be honest that is probably just because that is what is marketed to me here in the States, is La Liga or Bundesliga better? Are there leagues that are on the same level as the few I mentioned?

It depends on you which league you prefer to watch. You are a Liverpool fan so i guess EPL will attract you more as you will watch more and more teams. But if you could also get attracted to clubs like Barcelona in the spanish league who plays eccentric football. It just depends on you.

The top leagues in no order are the EPL, La liga, Serie A, Bundesliga.

Feel free to ask anything else. And please, don't call yourself a noob Razz
RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 89404
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by Jay29 Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:26 pm

2) I see all the leagues across the world, why exactly is it that there isn't one big league? One where Barcelona and Liverpool would play each other every year? Or Real Madrid would travel to the US an play the Galaxy? I understand the Champion's Cup accomplishes this for the top teams, but if you dont qualify you don't play obviously.

There are some people that want a so-called Super League now, due to the fact it would lead to more money for bigger clubs. However, it makes more sense to keep club football within their respective countries. Clubs can't keep travelling from place to place every week otherwise their players will fatigue quicker and there'll be less time for them to prepare for games. The quality of football on show would decline.

It's unfair on hundreds of other clubs if the all the top teams branched off and made a Super League and you risk diluting the competition. English football has grown more popular around the world as Chelsea and Man City had emerged as big teams, which forced Man United to improve more, which in turn brought in a lot more talent into the league. You wouldn't be able to achieve the same thing in a Super League.

There's a lot more to it, but essentially, logistics, competition amongst teams and history and tradition prevent a Super League from happening.

3) I hear about different "levels" of leagues (MLS, La Liga etc.) is the competition really THAT different? If so why is there such a competitive gap between "professional" leagues?

There are lots of factors to consider here, too.

The level of competition is affected by the culture of the country, how much money the clubs have and how good they are at producing their own players. In England, for example, there is a lot of money, so clubs can pay the highest wages which attracts the best talent. Clubs can use that money to improve their academies and produce better players. These clubs have rich histories and football itself has a massive culture in England. It's the same in Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Brazil, Argentina etc. All these leagues have had 100+ years of development.

Comparatively, MLS is a young league, and football isn't as big in the USA. They don't attract the best players due to salary caps, and they don't produce the best talents because their youth system isn't as good or as developed, so the level of talent there isn't as good as else where.

4) In American sports, we have "developmental" leagues (minor league baseball, basketball developmental leagues etc.) are there such things in football? Leagues and teams that exist solely for the talent development of more senior leagues?

Every club has youth teams for various ages, usually up to 21 (23 in some countries). These teams all have their own leagues. In some countries, clubs have B teams which play in the same league system as the "A" teams". In Spain, for example, Barcelona B play in the division below Barcelona.

5) Why is it that America just does not contribute top tier talent to professional football? I know there are a handful of players who did make the transition internationally, but why is it so disproportionate?

The level of talent America produces just isn't of the same level of talent produced in other countries, mainly because football isn't the "main" sport over there and the youth system, as I referenced to earlier, isn't as good or as established.

As I understand it, the system over there is being improved a lot and football is becoming more and more popular. Potentially, with such a high population and lots of money, America could become a superpower in football. It's a long road, though, and it takes many years to educate and train players.

6) What are the most competitive leagues in the world, and in what order? I gravitate toward Barclays, but to be honest that is probably just because that is what is marketed to me here in the States, is La Liga or Bundesliga better? Are there leagues that are on the same level as the few I mentioned?

Which leagues are the most competitive is a highly subjective thing. Which league is better is merely a matter of personal preference. Generally speaking, the biggest leagues are the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A and Ligue 1, but not necessarily in that order.

Jay29
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Sevilla
Posts : 19996
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by sportsczy Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:28 pm

1- It's not entirely true. The TV, merchandising and sponsorship deals are pooled in the MLS. So the salary cap is based on how much money the pool is. The last media deal is running out this year and it was horrible. The sport has picked up a ton since. The expectation is that the new TV deal will be exponentially higher. Just so peeps realize... the MLS had more attendance than the NBA last year.

2- Too many teams. As it is, you have usually 5 different league levels in each country. Also, media deals are all separate. If you think the Euro is failing... pooling footy would be worse lol.

3- Very different. MLS is like 2nd division level in the top European countries. No comparison.

4- Yeah. You have youth academies that start when kids are 10 years old at times or even younger. Then you have 2nd division down, which are pro but also developmental. Some of the top teams have lower league teams as well. It depends on the country.

4- The best athletes in the US choose either the NBA, NFL or MLB in the US. Just a lot more money in those sports.

5- EPL and La Liga are tops right now. Then you have Bundi, Serie A and Ligue 1. Portuguese league is behind those. Brazil's league is at the Portuguese league level. MLS and others are in the next category.
sportsczy
sportsczy
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 20824
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by sportsczy Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:30 pm

You guys should realize that almost every kid in the US plays footy when they're kids. But once they reach 14, they move into other sports. Most kids play several sports as kids, not just one.
sportsczy
sportsczy
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 20824
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by Die Borussen Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:33 pm

by the way they all express THEIR opinion as i did too
some1 could very well say bundesliga is the top and then serie A with EPL and lastly la liga with the rest following
there is not a definite order, there are 4 to 5 top leagues right now same level serie a, premier league, la liga and bundesliga. adding to them ligue 1 as well in the last years

Die Borussen
Banned (Permanent)

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 3442
Join date : 2012-01-17

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by Ganso Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:50 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Brazil's league is at the Portuguese league level.
most of Portugal's teams are made up of our second division/second tier players that leave,im just sayin.
Ganso
Ganso
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 15522
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 28

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by scotladd Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:51 pm

I appreciate all the input. I know these might be pretty rudimentary questions but this sport is waaaay more complicated than I ever gave it credit for.
scotladd
scotladd
Prospect
Prospect

Club Supported : Lyon
Posts : 54
Join date : 2012-12-30
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by rwo power Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:03 am

I shall try to answer some of the stuff from my opinion, too. I'm not so sure about the US salary cap as I lack general knowledge about the way US sports are financed (you can ask me anything about the BUndesliga, though - and you will find that the financial model of the BL differs quite a bit from that of the other top leagues).

scotladd wrote:1) I was told MLS has a pretty restrictive salary cap which prohibits American teams from aquiring top tier talent. How true is this, and if so, why do they have a salary cap?
Well, the German players that moved to the MLS mainly did so when they couldn't get any good contracts in Europe anymore. The sporting level of the MLS is comparatively lower, and so even players that don't really suffice for BL etc still can make it nicely in the MLS.

scotladd wrote:2) I see all the leagues across the world, why exactly is it that there isn't one big league?
Logistic reasons most of all. In Germany, the fans love to attend their teams, but traveling with the team is expensive even within Germany, so when you'd have to travel to foreign countries every two weeks, you'd lose most of the foreign support. Moreover, it is expensive and stressful for the players, too.

The teams that manage to get into the Champions League or Europe League where they have to travel to three foreign locations during the group phase and then once more every level of the knockout phase, often have some troubles in their domestic leagues due to players' fatigue. If you'd have a full World league and would have to play in some distant locations (possibly over continents) every two weeks, then the players would likely only jog over the place like zombies within a short while.

scotladd wrote:3) I hear about different "levels" of leagues (MLS, La Liga etc.) is the competition really THAT different? If so why is there such a competitive gap between "professional" leagues?
Well, you can see that in the Champions League. It starts out with teams of 53 different European countries that are whittled down via qualification and then play-offs to 32 clubs in 8 groups. In these 32 clubs, you normally only have a fraction of the originally 53 countries left, which are once more reduced if you come to the Last 16.

This happens as countries like San Marino, Luxemburg, Malta etc only have a handful of clubs in the first place, and they often even don't have a fully professional league. If you let full-time athletes play against amateurs who can only train in their free time, you would expect the latter to have quite a disadvantage. Normally you can consider countries with a long football tradition to have more players and thus a larger league system from which you get stronger clubs in the top levels.

If you take Germany, there are 6 1/2 million people organised in 27 000 football clubs. There are 3 professional leagues (Bundesliga, 2. Bundesliga, 3.Liga) and below that up to 8 more amateur divisions down to town level. Contrast this with a country like Slovenia that only has 2 million people living there, of which only a percentage play football. So such a country has a much smaller pool of players in the first place which reflects in a comparatively weaker league. (Nonetheless you will always have great players coming from less football-dominated countries, too!)

scotladd wrote:4) In American sports, we have "developmental" leagues (minor league baseball, basketball developmental leagues etc.) are there such things in football? Leagues and teams that exist solely for the talent development of more senior leagues?
In Germany it is required for every football club in the Bundesliga and 2nd Bundesliga to maintain a professional football academy with qualified coaches, physicians etc, otherwise they wouldn't get a license. Moreover, there are leagues for the different youth levels (U17, U19, U20 etc). The U23 teams are usually the 2nd teams of the professional teams and they play in the 3rd or 4th leagues, if they qualify for them.

scotladd wrote:5) Why is it that America just does not contribute top tier talent to professional football? I know there are a handful of players who did make the transition internationally, but why is it so disproportionate?
There are very few US players who are good enough to start for a Bundesliga team. Some are even benched in the 2nd Bundesliga. I can only surmise that this is because top athletes prefer to go for other sports than football in the US.

On the other hand, the US ladies are usually absolute top players even in European leagues if they move here. But then, the US Ladies national team is one of the most successful in World football for a long time now, too, and they even won two World Cups.

scotladd wrote:6) What are the most competitive leagues in the world, and in what order? I gravitate toward Barclays, but to be honest that is probably just because that is what is marketed to me here in the States, is La Liga or Bundesliga better? Are there leagues that are on the same level as the few I mentioned?
Well, the English Premier League is for sure the best marketed league world-wide. If you go for overall fan attendance, then the German Bundesliga is the Nr.1 with a average of 42 000 spectators per match. The Spanish Liga has arguably the top players of the world with Messi, CRonaldo, Iniesta, Xavi and the like who are always in the top ranks of the Ballon d'Or (World Player of the Year).

You can of course go for the UEFA coefficient that ranks the leagues according to the success of their clubs in the European cometitions. In that case you get the ranking according to this: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2013.html

Hope that helps a bit, too Smile
rwo power
rwo power
Super Moderator
Super Moderator

Club Supported : Asante Kotoko
Posts : 20978
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by barca 2011 Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:24 am

Good input from everyone. Just thought I'd add a few more notes. As far as a d-league goes, in the states, I don't think any sport utilizes the relegation/promotion system which is so widely used pretty much everywhere else on earth for football although the MLS is working on implementing it. Also here in the states football is very big on the college and even high school level whereas in Europe, kids who excel at those ages have already been on a youth team for some time rather than playing for their schools.

But I've been wanting to ask this for a while now on the forums and this seems like a decent post. Some years ago Sir Alex said that Football just will not catch on in the states because the country is just too big to ever develop true rivalries. Now this isn't necessarily true for other sports. However I live in Southern California and if I were to go see my "home" football team I would have to drive upwards of an hour. Is this case for anyone of you guys in Europe?
barca 2011
barca 2011
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 1755
Join date : 2011-06-07

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by rwo power Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:37 am

barca 2011 wrote:However I live in Southern California and if I were to go see my "home" football team I would have to drive upwards of an hour. Is this case for anyone of you guys in Europe?
My home team is my hometown's team, so it is right around the corner. If I'd want to go to a Schalke match, I'd have to drive only 15 or so kilometers, to Dortmund it is 40km, to Düsseldorf 30km, to Duisburg it is 17km and there are even a couple more clubs within 1 hour by car or train.
rwo power
rwo power
Super Moderator
Super Moderator

Club Supported : Asante Kotoko
Posts : 20978
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by justdoit_ Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:51 am

rwo power wrote:There are very few US players who are good enough to start for a Bundesliga team. Some are even benched in the 2nd Bundesliga. I can only surmise that this is because top athletes prefer to go for other sports than football in the US.

On the other hand, the US ladies are usually absolute top players even in European leagues if they move here. But then, the US Ladies national team is one of the most successful in World football for a long time now, too, and they even won two World Cups.
"Very few" is a stretch.
justdoit_
justdoit_
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Tottenham HotSpurs
Posts : 1235
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by rwo power Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:58 am

Well, Steven Cherundolo is Hannover 96's captain, and Schalke's Jermaine Jones isn't a scrub either. Timothy Chandler started most matches at Nürnberg, same as Fabian Jones and Daniel Williams at Hoffenheim. But okay, that's indeed just a handful.
rwo power
rwo power
Super Moderator
Super Moderator

Club Supported : Asante Kotoko
Posts : 20978
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by scotladd Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:50 am

rwo power wrote:
My home team is my hometown's team, so it is right around the corner. If I'd want to go to a Schalke match, I'd have to drive only 15 or so kilometers, to Dortmund it is 40km, to Düsseldorf 30km, to Duisburg it is 17km and there are even a couple more clubs within 1 hour by car or train.

This is also an alien concept to us over here. If a city has two teams in the top league of their sport it is quite an exception, and only large cities. New York, the LA area and Chicago. Saint Louis had two baseball teams at one time about 70 years ago. Yet London has like what...7 EPL teams? 6?

Thats crazy lol, especially considering they are mostly competitive.
scotladd
scotladd
Prospect
Prospect

Club Supported : Lyon
Posts : 54
Join date : 2012-12-30
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by Lex Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:54 am

London have Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, West Ham as well as some small teams like QPR and Tottenham all in the Premier League atm
Lex
Lex
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Valencia
Posts : 15097
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 34

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by chinomaster182 Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:11 am

Let me go into more detail because i believe the questions haven't been answered as well as they could be:

1) I was told MLS has a pretty restrictive salary cap which prohibits American teams from aquiring top tier talent. How true is this, and if so, why do they have a salary cap?

It's very true. There are more than one reasons for this. but the number one reason is that it protects these young MLS clubs from going bankrupt. We have to remember MLS is still a very young league, from its inception they wanted to avoid the mistakes the previous NASL did to avoid going under. Football can very very quickly escalte into a wage war that destroys finances, only tradition has kept all our precious clubs from oblivion. Obviously that tradition wasn't present in the newborn clubs so they had to have some form of protection. It was a very intelligent move, MLS has suffered from some very difficult years but its here today, alive and kicking and its gaining a ton of steam.

2) I see all the leagues across the world, why exactly is it that there isn't one big league? One where Barcelona and Liverpool would play each other every year? Or Real Madrid would travel to the US an play the Galaxy? I understand the Champion's Cup accomplishes this for the top teams, but if you dont qualify you don't play obviously.


Because of all the logistical problems many have said, but also because of another very important reason: If it aint broke, don't fix it. Football is working great, with the Champions League only gaining more and more popularity each year.

3) I hear about different "levels" of leagues (MLS, La Liga etc.) is the competition really THAT different? If so why is there such a competitive gap between "professional" leagues?

YES, even inside Europe there is almost light years of difference from lets say... The English Premier League and the Russian Premier League. Local leagues like MLS and Mexican Liga MX might as well be football from another galaxy.

Theres too simple reasons for this:
A. Money
Top Leagues have a money gap that is enormous, even bigger than the Yankees and the Oakland A's. More money brings in better wages and thus more talent. Lets say the new Maradona is born in China, once that kid starts showing his talents to the world he is going to be shipped to a top club ASAP and nobody in China can really do anything about it.

B. Networks
The top European leagues are all close together, have the best talents and thinkers and forge the best ideas and techniques. If a brilliant coach from Holland creates a revolutionary form of football, a person in Spain can easily "import" him (more money remember) bring that style and then show off that style in the Champions League all around Europe. By the time the rest of the world catches on, some other new idea is already being spread. Of course this advantage was even bigger back in the days the world didn't have satellite sports and the internet, however its still important.

4) In American sports, we have "developmental" leagues (minor league baseball, basketball developmental leagues etc.) are there such things in football? Leagues and teams that exist solely for the talent development of more senior leagues?

Yes, it depends on the country. Spains teams have also youth teams that play in the second division such as Barcelona B, Real Madrid Castilla. These kids also play adults and get some pretty decent competition. Other countries like England and Italy have teams that feature Under 15s. Under 17s, Unders 20s, etc and these teams play against each other. Theres also a new tournament called "Nextgen" which is intended to be the Champions League for kids.

5) Why is it that America just does not contribute top tier talent to professional football? I know there are a handful of players who did make the transition internationally, but why is it so disproportionate?

Because America doesn't care about Football and there is a ton more money to be gained in other sports. By the time a young athlete shows top physical condition, he will be persuaded to switch to a "real" sport like Baseball.

6) What are the most competitive leagues in the world, and in what order? I gravitate toward Barclays, but to be honest that is probably just because that is what is marketed to me here in the States, is La Liga or Bundesliga better? Are there leagues that are on the same level as the few I mentioned?

Ahh, the difficult question, i'll try to answer carefully since this can potentially create a Shit storm.

There isn't objectively a "best" league, they are all different and cater to different tastes. The English Premier League, Spains La Liga, Italys Serie A and Germanys Bundesliga make the top 4 though. Let me spell out their virtues and flaws.

English Premier League:
Pros
The glitziest and most marketed league as you know. It is also quickly becoming the league with the most money and is attracting the best players from all around the world. There is tons of good teams and every weekend has a ton of excitement. Manchester United is right now possibly the biggest team there, but that can easily change in a matter of a few weeks. Teams like Liverpool and Arsenal also have a ton of tradition and history. Football here is often times played very very fast and aggressive which makes it very exciting. Pretty much shoot first, ask questions later! Its direct parallel would be the NFL.
Cons
It also has a bit of a reputation as a "bone headed" league and that hipster idea that it only caters to mainstream audiences. EPL teams in the past have tended to rush head first and think little about tactics and technique. That is changing alot with the times since top talent is migrating more and more into the EPL. However theres still a big tradition about not thinking too hard about stuff. Matches between big teams for example have become more about whos dominant and can score more goals, which is very exciting for the fans, but can be considered poor play from other more knowledgeable (and arrogant!) neutrals.

Italys Serie A:
Pros:
The thinking mans league. Italian teams have a ton of tradition and history, a ton of top talent from around the world and also some of the best coaches and strategies. Italy prides itself in having great tacticians and superb defensive players. Even the most humble of Italian teams will have a thinker that might have different tactics that might force you to change your gameplan. Serie A is also one of the wackiest leagues around, owners, coches and fans tend to be the most eccentric and outspoken of them all. Serie A is also on the richest leagues around, just second place to the Premier League. Its direct parallel would be MLB, lots of tradition and knowledge.
Cons
Football in Italy also tends to be the slowest and can often lack excitment. If you're not the analytical type or you're new and don't understand or appreciate more nuanced aspects on the field, you might become very bored very quick with Serie A. Italy has also had many problems in recent years with money and other scandals that has many labeling it as a "has been" league (like MLB). Its teams are struggling a bit at the moment to compete in Europe.

Spains La Liga:
Pros
It has the glitziest and most glamorous teams in all the world in the form of Real Madrid and Barcelona. These two teams are the richest and arguably the best in the world, they have the two best talents in all the sport in Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo and an embarrassment of riches behind them. Spains teams also tend to be some of the most technical around. Football is mostly played on the ground and is a mixture in speed between England and Italy. Spains teams are doing fantastic both in Europe and around the world.
Cons
Its the league that also has the biggest gap between its top teams and the rest. Barcelona and Real Madrid are extremely rich and often times beat lesser teams into the ground. For any other team that isn't them, it is nigh impossible to finish higher than third place, which might be great fun if you're a fan of either team, but no so much if you aren't. These teams also dominate so much of the attention, that often times it seems like not much else is going around at the league.

Germanys Bundesliga:
Pros:
Lots of competition, many teams can and have had a good gameplan and project and have surprised everyone by taking the league. The German team, Bayern Munich is also one of the biggest in the world, has a ton of great talent and always mounts very serious challenges for the Champions League trophy. Borussia Dortmund at the moment is also another very impressive team that is stacked with good talent. German teams have football that is similar to the Premier League, fast and physical with a lot of excitement many times.
Cons:
Even though German teams are catching up, they have been the league that has the least amount of money. That means that until recently, most german teams haven't really launched serious runs in Europe. Bundesliga is also the least appreciated from the bunch, and typically features the least press coverage. They also don't really take into account international audiences and kickoff starts between 5-7 AM here in the American Continent, most people that aren't fanatics are asleep.

...

In the end all the leagues have alot to show for themselves, i suggest you start with EPL and the Champions league since it seems you already picked to support them, also its a good league to start for beginners. With time though you might just become a hardcore fanatic like us and start to watch and appreciate all the leagues.


Last edited by chinomaster182 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total
chinomaster182
chinomaster182
Starlet
Starlet

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 990
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 35

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by mr-r34 Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:13 am

Lex wrote:London have Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, West Ham as well as some small teams like QPR and Tottenham all in the Premier League atm

rofl

Head over to the Liverpool section mate were always keen on adding new additions, and welcome abroad.
mr-r34
mr-r34
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Norwich
Posts : 3377
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by rwo power Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:34 am

scotladd wrote:
rwo power wrote:
My home team is my hometown's team, so it is right around the corner. If I'd want to go to a Schalke match, I'd have to drive only 15 or so kilometers, to Dortmund it is 40km, to Düsseldorf 30km, to Duisburg it is 17km and there are even a couple more clubs within 1 hour by car or train.
This is also an alien concept to us over here. If a city has two teams in the top league of their sport it is quite an exception, and only large cities. New York, the LA area and Chicago. Saint Louis had two baseball teams at one time about 70 years ago. Yet London has like what...7 EPL teams? 6?

Thats crazy lol, especially considering they are mostly competitive.
Well, I'm living in the Ruhr Area which is an amalgamation of quite some cities which of course each have their own football team Very Happy
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhr
rwo power
rwo power
Super Moderator
Super Moderator

Club Supported : Asante Kotoko
Posts : 20978
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by rwo power Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:06 am

I shall shed some more light into chinomaster's statement about the Bundesliga
chinomaster182 wrote:Germanys Bundesliga:
Cons:
Even though German teams are catching up, they have been the league that has the least amount of money.
If you wonder why the Bundesliga has comparatively little money, this comes from the fact that opposed to most other teams (bar Real and Barca among the top clubs), the Bundesliga clubs are generally fan-owned (except for two clubs, Bayer Leverkusen and VfL Wolfsburg which originally started as clubs founded by company workers and thus are still owned by the parent companies). In the Bundesliga, we have a ruling called "50+1 rule" which means that the ownership of a Bundesliga club always has to be in the hands of the fans and no foreign investors can get the majority of a German football club in a buy-out maneuvre. Due to this, you will not find any rich oligarchs or sheikhs or the like who own a Bundesliga club as their personal toy, but it also means that there is less money going around than for example in the EPL with the many rich club owners.

Likewise, the Bundesliga earns far less from TV deals than either of EPL, Serie A or Real and Barca in the Spanish Liga as PayTV is not widely accepted in Germany and the people here just don't buy Sky subscriptions as they do in England or other countries.

Last but not least, the matchday revenue in Germany is far less than in the other top leagues even though we have the largest audiences in the stadiums with an average of 42 000 spectators per match. This again is due to the fact that the fans here have a big say in how the clubs work and do business. The prices for tickets are much, much lower than in any of the other leagues. So you can get a terrace ticket for German champions Dortmund in the Signal Iduna Arena for just 15 Euros or for Bayern in the Allianz Arena in Munich for 15 Euros, too.

chinomaster182 wrote:That means that until recently, most german teams haven't really launched serious runs in Europe.
As a matter of fact, in the 70es, BL teams were pretty much on top alongside the great classic Dutch sides. ^^

chinomaster182 wrote:Bundesliga is also the least appreciated from the bunch, and typically features the least press coverage. They also don't really take into account international audiences and kickoff starts between 5-7 AM here in the American Continent, most people that aren't fanatics are asleep..
The kick-off times are also directly related to the fact that the Bundesliga caters to the (local) fans. Other kick-off times would annoy the spectators in Germany, and the Bundesliga is in the first line the German League, so the times cater to the German fans. ^^
rwo power
rwo power
Super Moderator
Super Moderator

Club Supported : Asante Kotoko
Posts : 20978
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by REWB Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:23 am

chinomaster182 wrote:Let me go into more detail because i believe the questions haven't been answered as well as they could be:

1) I was told MLS has a pretty restrictive salary cap which prohibits American teams from aquiring top tier talent. How true is this, and if so, why do they have a salary cap?

It's very true. There are more than one reasons for this. but the number one reason is that it protects these young MLS clubs from going bankrupt. We have to remember MLS is still a very young league, from its inception they wanted to avoid the mistakes the previous NASL did to avoid going under. Football can very very quickly escalte into a wage war that destroys finances, only tradition has kept all our precious clubs from oblivion. Obviously that tradition wasn't present in the newborn clubs so they had to have some form of protection. It was a very intelligent move, MLS has suffered from some very difficult years but its here today, alive and kicking and its gaining a ton of steam.

2) I see all the leagues across the world, why exactly is it that there isn't one big league? One where Barcelona and Liverpool would play each other every year? Or Real Madrid would travel to the US an play the Galaxy? I understand the Champion's Cup accomplishes this for the top teams, but if you dont qualify you don't play obviously.


Because of all the logistical problems many have said, but also because of another very important reason: If it aint broke, don't fix it. Football is working great, with the Champions League only gaining more and more popularity each year.

3) I hear about different "levels" of leagues (MLS, La Liga etc.) is the competition really THAT different? If so why is there such a competitive gap between "professional" leagues?

YES, even inside Europe there is almost light years of difference from lets say... The English Premier League and the Russian Premier League. Local leagues like MLS and Mexican Liga MX might as well be football from another galaxy.

Theres too simple reasons for this:
A. Money
Top Leagues have a money gap that is enormous, even bigger than the Yankees and the Oakland A's. More money brings in better wages and thus more talent. Lets say the new Maradona is born in China, once that kid starts showing his talents to the world he is going to be shipped to a top club ASAP and nobody in China can really do anything about it.

B. Networks
The top European leagues are all close together, have the best talents and thinkers and forge the best ideas and techniques. If a brilliant coach from Holland creates a revolutionary form of football, a person in Spain can easily "import" him (more money remember) bring that style and then show off that style in the Champions League all around Europe. By the time the rest of the world catches on, some other new idea is already being spread. Of course this advantage was even bigger back in the days the world didn't have satellite sports and the internet, however its still important.

4) In American sports, we have "developmental" leagues (minor league baseball, basketball developmental leagues etc.) are there such things in football? Leagues and teams that exist solely for the talent development of more senior leagues?

Yes, it depends on the country. Spains teams have also youth teams that play in the second division such as Barcelona B, Real Madrid Castilla. These kids also play adults and get some pretty decent competition. Other countries like England and Italy have teams that feature Under 15s. Under 17s, Unders 20s, etc and these teams play against each other. Theres also a new tournament called "Nextgen" which is intended to be the Champions League for kids.

5) Why is it that America just does not contribute top tier talent to professional football? I know there are a handful of players who did make the transition internationally, but why is it so disproportionate?

Because America doesn't care about Football and there is a ton more money to be gained in other sports. By the time a young athlete shows top physical condition, he will be persuaded to switch to a "real" sport like Baseball.

6) What are the most competitive leagues in the world, and in what order? I gravitate toward Barclays, but to be honest that is probably just because that is what is marketed to me here in the States, is La Liga or Bundesliga better? Are there leagues that are on the same level as the few I mentioned?

Ahh, the difficult question, i'll try to answer carefully since this can potentially create a Shit storm.

There isn't objectively a "best" league, they are all different and cater to different tastes. The English Premier League, Spains La Liga, Italys Serie A and Germanys Bundesliga make the top 4 though. Let me spell out their virtues and flaws.

English Premier League:
Pros
The glitziest and most marketed league as you know. It is also quickly becoming the league with the most money and is attracting the best players from all around the world. There is tons of good teams and every weekend has a ton of excitement. Manchester United is right now possibly the biggest team there, but that can easily change in a matter of a few weeks. Teams like Liverpool and Arsenal also have a ton of tradition and history. Football here is often times played very very fast and aggressive which makes it very exciting. Pretty much shoot first, ask questions later! Its direct parallel would be the NFL.
Cons
It also has a bit of a reputation as a "bone headed" league and that hipster idea that it only caters to mainstream audiences. EPL teams in the past have tended to rush head first and think little about tactics and technique. That is changing alot with the times since top talent is migrating more and more into the EPL. However theres still a big tradition about not thinking too hard about stuff. Matches between big teams for example have become more about whos dominant and can score more goals, which is very exciting for the fans, but can be considered poor play from other more knowledgeable (and arrogant!) neutrals.

Italys Serie A:
Pros:
The thinking mans league. Italian teams have a ton of tradition and history, a ton of top talent from around the world and also some of the best coaches and strategies. Italy prides itself in having great tacticians and superb defensive players. Even the most humble of Italian teams will have a thinker that might have different tactics that might force you to change your gameplan. Serie A is also one of the wackiest leagues around, owners, coches and fans tend to be the most eccentric and outspoken of them all. Serie A is also on the richest leagues around, just second place to the Premier League. Its direct parallel would be MLB, lots of tradition and knowledge.
Cons
Football in Italy also tends to be the slowest and can often lack excitment. If you're not the analytical type or you're new and don't understand or appreciate more nuanced aspects on the field, you might become very bored very quick with Serie A. Italy has also had many problems in recent years with money and other scandals that has many labeling it as a "has been" league (like MLB). Its teams are struggling a bit at the moment to compete in Europe.

Spains La Liga:
Pros
It has the glitziest and most glamorous teams in all the world in the form of Real Madrid and Barcelona. These two teams are the richest and arguably the best in the world, they have the two best talents in all the sport in Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo and an embarrassment of riches behind them. Spains teams also tend to be some of the most technical around. Football is mostly played on the ground and is a mixture in speed between England and Italy. Spains teams are doing fantastic both in Europe and around the world.
Cons
Its the league that also has the biggest gap between its top teams and the rest. Barcelona and Real Madrid are extremely rich and often times beat lesser teams into the ground. For any other team that isn't them, it is nigh impossible to finish higher than third place, which might be great fun if you're a fan of either team, but no so much if you aren't. These teams also dominate so much of the attention, that often times it seems like not much else is going around at the league.

Germanys Bundesliga:
Pros:
Lots of competition, many teams can and have had a good gameplan and project and have surprised everyone by taking the league. The German team, Bayern Munich is also one of the biggest in the world, has a ton of great talent and always mounts very serious challenges for the Champions League trophy. Borussia Dortmund at the moment is also another very impressive team that is stacked with good talent. German teams have football that is similar to the Premier League, fast and physical with a lot of excitement many times.
Cons:
Even though German teams are catching up, they have been the league that has the least amount of money. That means that until recently, most german teams haven't really launched serious runs in Europe. Bundesliga is also the least appreciated from the bunch, and typically features the least press coverage. They also don't really take into account international audiences and kickoff starts between 5-7 AM here in the American Continent, most people that aren't fanatics are asleep.

...

In the end all the leagues have alot to show for themselves, i suggest you start with EPL and the Champions league since it seems you already picked to support them, also its a good league to start for beginners. With time though you might just become a hardcore fanatic like us and start to watch and appreciate all the leagues.

amazing post, pretty much sums everything up, all the other posts are great as well.
REWB
REWB
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 5436
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by REWB Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:24 am

Lex wrote:London have Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, West Ham as well as some small teams like QPR and Tottenham all in the Premier League atm

Laughing
REWB
REWB
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 5436
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by FennecFox7 Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:25 am

barca 2011, while SAF has a point, trust me rivalries are huge. In dallas, we hate the dynamo so much, that fc dallas hosted an event for watching the mls cup final just so we can boo the dynamo haha
FennecFox7
FennecFox7
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 7439
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by barca 2011 Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:08 am

Giggity5313 wrote:barca 2011, while SAF has a point, trust me rivalries are huge. In dallas, we hate the dynamo so much, that fc dallas hosted an event for watching the mls cup final just so we can boo the dynamo haha
Thats pretty cool actually!! It's good to see that there are areas in the country who share that passion and of course rivalries exist in MLS but there are very few. But its also good to see that football has such a following somewhere other than the big 3 cities (NY, LA, Chicago) which have such huge and diverse populations.

But another reason that MLS teams are so stretched out is not just the size of the country but how young the league is in general so there just aren't many clubs while there are just too many cities when compared to the club to city and city to club ratio in Europe.
Check this picture out:

Some basic football questions from a noob:) 628px-2012NorthAmericanSoccer

Those are our 3 entire football divisions, in other words every pro team in the U.S and I believe the NY Cosmos are on their way next year. It just cannot be compared to European countries but imagine if every somewhat major city had a team, lol. That'd be a LOT of teams and if that ever does happen it will take a very long time. Who knows if Football can ever catch on to that degree here in this country. I so wish it could but who knows when/if.

I'd love to see a Red Bulls/Cosmos rivalry though. And being from Chicago, another team there would be cool too. Its a dream to see a Cubs/White Sox level rivalry but in Football!
barca 2011
barca 2011
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 1755
Join date : 2011-06-07

Back to top Go down

Some basic football questions from a noob:) Empty Re: Some basic football questions from a noob:)

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum