What's wrong with diving?

Diving is a Art imo, and should be allowed if your team is desperate to win the game.

Everyone changing their mind about diving now that Cazorla has done it.

Its just wrong, why is it even a question?

Now I understand why this forum thinks Negrito is a racist term.

Tactical fouls are unfair and unsporting and yet the players comitting them are praised for their sacrifice for the team and intelligence.

Is it also wrong to dive to avoid a serious tackle that might cause an injury?

And if so, how do you (when watching from tv) know whether it was a dive to avoid an injury or to receive a fk or pk? In some cases it might be very difficult to know the intention. Perhaps in most.

Also, is it wrong to dive, if you do it because other teams also have players taking that route? So you kind of dive to balance it out?

This thread Hook, line and sinker

Nice one, REWB

No surprise this thread is from an Arsenal fan after the Cazorla dive over the weekend. Hypocrisy at its finest!

Please don't generalise. He is the only arsenal fan who thinks this way. Every other arsenal fan was against diving, and is still against diving. Nor any of us were happy with the fact Cazorla dived

^I'm referring to him and him alone.

I still think REWB is just trolling

Phritz wrote:Tactical fouls are unfair and unsporting and yet the players comitting them are praised for their sacrifice for the team and intelligence.

A foul is a foul. And the ref will see that and sanction the player justly so.

Now on the other hand simulating a hit or trying to fool the referee to give you an unfair advantage is completely different.

Phritz wrote:Tactical fouls are unfair and unsporting and yet the players comitting them are praised for their sacrifice for the team and intelligence.

Bring +1 back please.

You lot need to be a little less moralizers and realize that there's varying degrees of what "diving" consists of, and not every case is as black and white as many are making it seem.

Tactical fouls, at least, are always punished and a direct tradeoff, even though it's a bit sneaky, I agree with Phritz in the sense, that one shouldn't be glorified for it.

But a successful dive doesn't even get punished, it's hugely more deceptive and unfair, IMHO.

But, in all honesty, you know why I think diving is worse? Because it's the coward's way out. Many players who go down easy might even learn a thing or two from trying to stay on their feet.
And it's not "manly", stupid as it sounds. It's a huge point to me personally. They're professional athletes, grown men, who earn millions - they should have more dignity, and bigger balls, than to go down.

Women, ironically, have this right, in women's football I see far less diving, and they get right back up even after getting horrible axed. Because they're not pussies. In the metaphorical sense.

Ok the op is either a kid or he's trolling because no one says crap like that.

Avoiding an injury how is diving avoiding and injury. When a player dives he looks for some kind of contact and then flops. Avoiding an injury has nothing to do with diving that is an excuse used by fan boys to defend their players. Dives are horrible and you can definitely tell when Somone dives on purpose. Look at barca vs Betis when that useless *bleep* Sanchez flopped in the penalty area. He was looking for the ref while flopping. That was an obvious dive with absolutely no excuses!

jibers wrote:
OP is aware that he has one of the biggest divers in football, so in order for OP not to criticise his team, OP has to pretend that diving is okay. OP was probably one of the people that called out people, but now that OP's team has multiple offenders, it is seen as alright. Good luck with your honest goals of 2013 OP.

OP pls

Cazorla one of the biggest divers in football?

says the dude with a.young on his team

RealGunner wrote:Please don't generalise. He is the only arsenal fan who thinks this way. Every other arsenal fan was against diving, and is still against diving. Nor any of us were happy with the fact Cazorla dived

RG . Diving is a cancer in this sport.

jibers wrote:No surprise you are suddenly morally ambiguous after the Carazola dive. If that is the reason then that is sad. Football has been stabbed in the back and is dying a very slow and painfulc death...

Be/\/ceCALI wrote:

jibers wrote:
OP is aware that he has one of the biggest divers in football, so in order for OP not to criticise his team, OP has to pretend that diving is okay. OP was probably one of the people that called out people, but now that OP's team has multiple offenders, it is seen as alright. Good luck with your honest goals of 2013 OP.

OP pls

Cazorla one of the biggest divers in football?

says the dude with a.young on his team

Perfect response

Cazorla is NOT one of the biggest divers in football. I would love for you to point out every dive he has done since coming to Arsenal for me, because I promise you it's nowhere near as much as a player like Young or Nani or Ronaldo or Bale or one of the many players who people seem to accept the cheating of just because they always do it and people write it off as 'boys will be boys' has done. Arsenal players do not dive often at all because Wenger hates it - he apologized to the press for it after the game unlike a certain SAF does when quizzed about such issues (often deflecting criticism). And as for Santi, he actually stayed on his feet after a clear foul against Spurs a few weeks ago to set up a goal, and he was not awarded free kicks for the rest of the West Brom game despite being clearly fouled a few times, so to typecast him as a diver or to suggest that referees favour Arsenal (not that you necessarily did) is absurd. On that note, I found a great quote from a poster in the Arsenal section on the issue:

furiouswindbottom wrote:I don't know if you guys get 'Fanzone' where you live, but I got really annoyed with them tonight. They (Leroy Rosenior, Don Hutchinson and Gary O'Rielly) were going mental claiming Santi should be banned for 3 games.

I actually agree with 3 game bans for diving, but funnily enough....I don't remember them ranting so much about Ashley Young, Suarez, Rooney, Welbeck, Torres or Bale.

Arsenal players don't dive. You know why? Wenger hates it.

I was too drunk to call them and my internet connection was rubbish during the show, but after Rosenior said ''Wenger should have a word''...I really wanted to go mental and say...''Yeah, he will. Like he did with Theo after his one and only dive. Like he did with Eduardo, whom UEFA changed the rules for and banned for two games. Never happened before or since. Santi won't dive again. But Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez and Young will. And they won't stop. Because guys like you are too afraid to have a go at Man U players. More importantly, you won't have a go at Ferguson. He is obviously aware of these dives and his silence means he encourages it.''

It's Ferguson who needs the ban!

Maybe I'll try and 'talk to them' this week.

Perhaps this was written too much in an anti-Utd way in the spur of the moment, but the point still stands that people love to get on the Wenger/Arsenal-hate bandwagon at the drop of a hat. Nobody seems to mention Rosenberg's awful dive to try to win a penalty in Arsenal's box

REWB wrote:Tell me what's wrong with it? how does it negatively effect the 'beautiful' game? what harm does it cause if the player is smart enough to trick the referee? explain.

Are you Santi in disguise?

What's wrong with punching an opponent in the face as long as you go down pretending to have been hit as well? As long as you can con the referee it's all good in the hood.....

what's wrong with decapitating the entire rival team with samurai swords when the refs back is turned

julias wrote:What's wrong with punching an opponent in the face as long as you go down pretending to have been hit as well? As long as you can con the referee it's all good in the hood.....

What ? Have you ever played or are you another one of those kids that don't know what sport your supporting?

white_star, what about throwing coins at players as long as the TV cameras don't catch it on film? Surely that's somewhat acceptable?

It's against the rules. Might as well ask why grabbing the ball and throwing it into the net is a foul as well.

However, despite diving and play acting being despicable, what is NOT is falling over if you have been fouled. Let's take Eden Hazard against Sunderland for example. Early on in the game, he got into the box, it was an obvious goalscoring opportunity- and Larsson goes across the back of him and tugs on his arm enough to get him off balance. This action causes Hazard to not be able to shoot, and he tries to round the goalkeeper instead and is tackled fairly.

It is COMPLETELY within your right as a player to fall in that situation. You have been fouled, if you can stay up and score, do so- that is to your advantage. But if you have been fouled and you lose any advantage you may have had, you are within your rights to fall. Let the ref see that you have been fouled, it's hard sometimes for refs to discern what has been a foul and what hasn't if it's not very flagrant- and you make it less flagrant by staying on your feet.

IMO that is fine. RVP is completely right to say what he had said earlier. I agree with BC wholedheartedly.

The op would troll against diving if arsenal was a more successful team ATM.

I think the point of this thread wasn't to ask if diving was wrong or inmoral as an action, the answer is a resounding yes, diving is against the core design of the modern game.

The more interesting question that i believe the OP was trying to ask is: If i am a profesional player playing at the highest level (exactly like Santi Cazorla) of the game in this day and age, why WOULDN'T i dive?

Maybe it should take a harder route that most here aren't equipped to discuss such as, if i'm a Pro like Cazorla, is it IRRESPONSIBLE not to dive?

The leading first world culture in our 21st century is organized on the economist point of view that people respond to incentives, our social contract was designed not on the thought of virtue and how people should act, but more on how people will act if you give them costs that outweigh the gains of a undesirable action, you rob a store, you go to jail. Most people stay put once they realize that.

Football as it exists today, has its cards stacked in favor of diving. Like everything else in life, there is costs and gains to both diving and not diving, if you take some time to get into the shoes of a modern pro, you will see that the gains of diving far outweigh the costs of the action, thus there is diving everywhere in the world every single weekend, even in a country like Britain where it is much maligned by the public.

Of course all of this goes against romantic notions many fans have, it forces us to reconsider many difficult assumptions that might be painful to be tackled head on, such as: do a handful of old men control the sport or do the fans do?

I believe romanticism is at the core of being human and has a place in all of our hearts. However i also believe our laws have indirectly pushed football in a strong direction towards reality and there is no why its going back, the natural conclusion would be for us to push it all the way and incentive staying on your feet in a realistic manner.

In that respect, you could be even more general - is a player obliged to cheat (dive, handball, lie to the ref etc) to make sure his team wins and thus ends up as high in the table as possible, thus maximizing profit?

Well, personally, I'd prefer the thought of fair play, I have to admit. This is not just due to some romantic notion, but also due to the fact that increased cheating would lessen the sporting aspect of a match. If a match is decided by who is the better play-actor or liar, then football could as well turn into a fake show like WWE, and somehow this wouldn't appeal to me at all. Maybe there are others who would prefer it that way, but then I'd probably give up on the highest level of men's football and rather watch the women play as that way of cheating is still comparatively rare there.