Re: Arsenal 0 - 2 Swansea: Any one else done with this season?

by SUPERCARTTS Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:08 am

@Wilson and El Gunner,

The problem is AW has always been of the understanding that if our opponents score 1, we'll score 2 - essentially disregarding that defensive aspect due to the strong belief of our attacking potency. Although this has worked in many season, it has now developed to a stage whereby we're conceding and not looking like actually scoring; or scoring and not defending.

Could The fact we have no DM been the problem? How come we weren't saying this after the first 6 games? Did Diaby give us that balance? Should we have signed M'Vila? Does the current 3 midfield players lack cohesion? Should we move to 4 in the middle? So many ifs and buts..

by Jay29 Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:07 am

In those first few games we actually had a plan. The offence wasn't particular good back then, but we compensated for that by being prepared to sit in a defensive shape and soak up pressure before hitting the opposition on the counter or ruthlessly exploiting a weakness they had. Diaby really helped us do this because his ability to get up and down the pitch with and without the ball.

Now, though, we don't seem willing to sit back and soak up pressure any more and we keep trying to win games through control of possession, like we used to do in the past. But as we've discussed before, we're not really suited to that style any more.

The trio of Arteta, Wilshere and Cazorla also hasn't quite worked as well as we though it might. I think one problem with it is that it has two players who want the ball all the time in order to control the tempo of the passing and create chances (Wilshere and Cazorla) but neither want to make runs into the box so it becomes a bit one dimensional. I've banged on about Cazorla having to play in the middle, but at times, I think we've looked better when he's drifted over to the left, because this allows Wilshere more room to assert himself on the game.

There's also the issue with fitness. Wilshere is putting together his first run of games since a lengthy lay off, and Cazorla and Arteta are having to play every game and it's clearly reflecting in their increasingly laboured performances; Cazorla regular drifting out of matches and Arteta make an increasing number of errors when he's usually faultless.

Perhaps at this stage there could be some merit to 4-4-2/4-2-4. Cazorla could play LW, Podolski can go up alongside Giroud. I've been opposed to this before, but frankly, I think it's worth a try since the "tried and tested" really isn't working at this stage.

by SamuelJayC Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:17 am

Agree with Jay.

Wenger talking about Jaded all the time - I looked at the 03/04 league stats to see how many games they all played:

Lehmann - 38 starts
Henry - 37 starts
Toure - 36 starts
Campbell - 35 starts
Pires - 33 starts
Cole - 32 starts
Lauren - 30 starts
Vieira - 29 starts
Gilberto - 29 starts
Ljungberg - 27 starts
Bergkamp - 21 starts

I honestly don't know if this shows anything - but looking at the high amount of games Henry, Toure, Campbell, Pires etc played, it never seemed to affect them and I don't recall Wenger saying they were "jaded" in any league game - particularly in November.

I know in the champions league defeat against Chelsea at Highbury in 04, in the second half they whole squad said they were tired in that second half, but I'm talking league games.

by furiouswindbottom Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:37 pm

In 2004 we had 'The Invicibles.'

In 2012 we have 'The Unwatchables.'

Watching a re-run (I know, I'm mental).

We were even worse than I thought. Half the team look like they've just finished a marathon and drank a bottle of whisky. After half an hour.

I'm turning it off.

by Wilson37 Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:17 pm

cant accept 'jaded' or 'fatigue' as an explanation.. these guys are professionals.. i dont think playing twice a week should affect a professional footballer.. its not only us.. most of the other teams (bar Shitty) play the same players week in and out.. and when they lose, their coaches never give such an excuse.. Wenger is too protective and finds reasons to avoid blaming his players..

by boss Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:44 pm

Giroud,Podolski ,Walcott,Cazorla,Arteta,Mertesacker,Santos,Gervinho,Chamakh etc etc ...U better improve yourselves otherwise OUT (even Wenger)!

It doesn't mean winning every single game BUT performing like idts! ..that's just Unacceptable henceforth ! ENOUGH .

by SamuelJayC Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:56 pm

Exactly. I'm jaded from work, but I still go to work and do the best I can.

by SUPERCARTTS Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:59 pm

#Jaded is a poor word to use at this stage and in facts show that AW is 'clutching at straws' and quite frankly, it's embarrassing.

The problem is that certain players are exerting far more energy than others due to the system we're playing. Once again, on paper, the main 13 players look like they can do a lot of damage; but the lack of tactics is concerning.

Picture this scenario, and tell it doesn't sound like AW has lost the ability: we play Adton Villa, look far from winning, Monday comes and AW gives his opinion where we're lacking. We go to Everton and take the lead - not a snow balls chance in hell of a clean sheet - and we pretty much look lost for ideas. Another winless game. Monday comes AW gives his opinion where we're lacking. Swansea turn up like they've just had a crash course in 'Tika Taka' (or whatever it's called) from Barcelona. They play triangles around us and put us to the sword with 2 mins to spare - you better believe come Monday, AW is going to give his opinions on where we're lacking as well as the answers.

But guess what, he won't change a f*cking thing, come our next EPL game. So my question to you all is this: what is AW waiting for? And why the lack of plan b, in way of a formation change? We've got nothing to lose and far more to gain. I spoke of 4-4-2 but several people made excuses regarding the lack of attributes certain players possess to play 4-4-2. Sometime I think we forget that professional players are adaptable athletes. I'm not asking Usain Bolt to change from 100m to Cycling ffs.

by BeArsenal Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:21 pm

SUPERCARTTS wrote:#Jaded is a poor word to use at this stage and in facts show that AW is 'clutching at straws' and quite frankly, it's embarrassing.

The problem is that certain players are exerting far more energy than others due to the system we're playing. Once again, on paper, the main 13 players look like they can do a lot of damage; but the lack of tactics is concerning.

Picture this scenario, and tell it doesn't sound like AW has lost the ability: we play Adton Villa, look far from winning, Monday comes and AW gives his opinion where we're lacking. We go to Everton and take the lead - not a snow balls chance in hell of a clean sheet - and we pretty much look lost for ideas. Another winless game. Monday comes AW gives his opinion where we're lacking. Swansea turn up like they've just had a crash course in 'Tika Taka' (or whatever it's called) from Barcelona. They play triangles around us and put us to the sword with 2 mins to spare - you better believe come Monday, AW is going to give his opinions on where we're lacking as well as the answers.

But guess what, he won't change a f*cking thing, come our next EPL game. So my question to you all is this: what is AW waiting for? And why the lack of plan b, in way of a formation change? We've got nothing to lose and far more to gain. I spoke of 4-4-2 but several people made excuses regarding the lack of attributes certain players possess to play 4-4-2. Sometime I think we forget that professional players are adaptable athletes. I'm not asking Usain Bolt to change from 100m to Cycling ffs.

but you are right!

by DuringTheWar Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:06 pm

I rewatched the game because i missed most of it before. We grew into the game as it went on, after the first 30 minutes we started to dominate, without many goal chances though. Our best spell was definately the first 15 minutes of the second half, basically because wilshere was making runs forward and we were actually passing it to him, and this was how we got our best chance of the match when he set up cazorla on the edge of the box, we were getting more territory in swanseas half. This is a contrast to what usually happens, becuase he often makes runs behind their midfield but is almost always ignores, even when there is an unblocked passing line to him, its like we are only willing to pass forward if there is a lot of space. Also our midfield runners have had a big problem this season because instead of passing it off to them our striker either loses it or waits about 10 seconds to do something, then tries a hollywood pass to the flank....

i though everton was cazorlas worst game but this was even worse, almost nothing was working, he should have been rested.

by Jay29 Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:34 pm

It was good that Rosicky got some minutes under his belt. The quicker he returns to full fitness, the quicker we can start resting Cazorla more. Although, why Wenger is reluctant to use Coquelin and just push Wilshere forward I've no idea. We could even play Ramsey, as well, though I imagine that would be widely unpopular.

by RealGunner Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:45 pm

Arteta-Ramsey-Wilshere midfield would be great imo.

by Raptorgunner Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:04 pm

Wenger would destroy the Barcelona team he was to manage them, he don't believe in tactics, he would put Messi as CB and Pique as striker.

No mater who we sign, they will become dead-woods.

by juventus101 Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:20 pm

You guys should switch to a 4-4-2. Cazorla is a winger. Ive said it all along. Hes a creative player and can play through the middle, but is better out wide in my opinion. Similar to Camoranesi (juve example haha) like that. At least from what ive seen of him for Spain (where he plays wide) and Arsenal (where he plays centrally) comparatively. He can still cut in and create, but ahould mainly be based off the wing. Podolski is also better centrally. Play like this and i bet you get better results:

--Sczezny--
--Sagna-- --Mertesacker-- --Kosc/Verm-- --Gibbs--
--Walcott-- --Wilshere-- --Arteta-- --Cazorla--
--Giroud-- --Podolski--

Simple yet effective.

by SamuelJayC Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:29 pm

Wenger: "A lot of players will be rested against Olympiacos, they're on the verge of getting injured."

------------

Thoughts on who we'll see? Rosicky didn't play for the reverses like Wenger said he would, could mean he'll get some minutes in Greece.

by urbaNRoots Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:40 pm

Arsenal 0 - 2 Swansea: Any one else done with this season? - Page 4 Proxy

Report by @johncrossmirror that Steve Bould gave team the hairdryer treatment after Swansea loss.

by Raptorgunner Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:43 pm

Samuelj29060 wrote:Wenger: "A lot of players will be rested against Olympiacos, they're on the verge of getting injured."

------------

Thoughts on who we'll see? Rosicky didn't play for the reverses like Wenger said he would, could mean he'll get some minutes in Greece.

thomas esfiled to get a start. :bow:

by RealGunner Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:55 pm

Eisfeld is not registered for the CL unfortunately

----------------------------------Szczesny---------------------------------------------

Yennaris-------------Djourou---------------Squillaci--------------------Meade?----

-----------------------Coquelin---------------Ramsey-------------------------------------

Oxlade-----------------------------Rosicky-----------------------------Arshavin

--------------------------------------Chamakh----------------------------------------

?

by RealGunner Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:59 pm

Would personally start Toral, Bellerin, Akpom and maybe Hayden as well :coffee:

by Thinking.. Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:05 pm

RealGunner wrote:Eisfeld is not registered for the CL unfortunately

----------------------------------Szczesny---------------------------------------------

Yennaris-------------Djourou---------------Squillaci--------------------Meade?----

-----------------------Coquelin---------------Ramsey-------------------------------------

Oxlade-----------------------------Rosicky-----------------------------Arshavin

--------------------------------------Chamakh----------------------------------------

?

Would rather start Miquel instead of Squillaci. Remember we had to pay him 80 grand or something for 1 appearance last season?

by RealGunner Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:08 pm

Think Miquel is injured/doubtful otherwise He will be ahead of him 10/10 times lol

by Raptorgunner Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:13 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:

Report by @johncrossmirror that Steve Bould gave team the hairdryer treatment after Swansea loss.

I bet Wenger gave them all hugs and kisses after Bould made them all cry. Very Happy

by urbaNRoots Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:42 pm

Raptorgunner wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:

Report by @johncrossmirror that Steve Bould gave team the hairdryer treatment after Swansea loss.

I bet Wenger gave them all hugs and kisses after Bould made them all cry.

by Raptorgunner Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:19 am

by urbaNRoots Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:02 pm

God how I wish this was true: http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/12/03/3574733/wenger-hits-out-at-vermaelen-gervinho-jenkinson-in-furious?source=breakingnews

If only Arsene & Bould hit out at Podolski too, lack of effort was embarrassing.

by Raptorgunner Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:39 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:God how I wish this was true: http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/12/03/3574733/wenger-hits-out-at-vermaelen-gervinho-jenkinson-in-furious?source=breakingnews

If only Arsene & Bould hit out at Podolski too, lack of effort was embarrassing.

I dont believe this, Wenger would never hurt his kids, that is why he gave many players this week off.

When you sell your best player year after year, he knows is not the players fault its his fault.

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