NextGen Series [champions league for U-19]

Kick wrote:Quick question, of your starting XI, how many are from your youth team?
let me answer that, two and one of which you sold and then bought back!
How many do Chelsea have? 1 but if our youth keep progressing like they are, I think we could see 4-5 being in our starting XI in the future.
Seriously, Juve are not that much better. At least our youth are out there winning things. Shown by our 2 Youth FA cup wins in three years and us reaching the final of nextgen.

Aside from Barca, how many teams actually promote more than one or two youth players, not many. Thats not what a youth team is there for. Its there for the players. To give them the best environment so they can grow into the best player they can be, if that is for said club, then all the better for the club, if not, then you can be proud you've done your bit for the future of football.

Errm.This is not about comparing youth academies here(we're discussing Chelsea here !),are you seriously getting my point ? Rather you're trying to brag about how many youth trophies you've won.Again you are merely reinforcing my point ,Chelsea youth have done well on the domestic and international stage yet there could've been some productive use for the Chelsea first team but there isnt since 1.Hardly any opportunities are given 2.Roman purchases 40m,50m players at will ,even at the slightest of problems he looks towards the transfer window ,seriously with this kind of free-spending policy there isnt any real room for youth players to breakthrough.You are the Real Madrid of England essentially in that sense.

And you're mentioning 1 player breaking through ,really ? And ironically that was much before the takeover from Roman.

Why are you going all defensive all of a sudden? And what exactly IS your point?

You brought up Chelsea don't use their players from their academy.
We've basically said Juventus don't either. You argue they've only promoted when you've basically done the same! You actually let Giovinco go because he wasn't deemed good enough. He then came back.

Roman does spend. Nobody's denying that. It's proven to be succesful for Chelsea Football Club. What you fail to realise though is that you've also spent more than 100 million before you won the league. The likes of Amauri etc didn't come for peanuts.

Surag wrote:

Kick wrote:Quick question, of your starting XI, how many are from your youth team?
let me answer that, two and one of which you sold and then bought back!
How many do Chelsea have? 1 but if our youth keep progressing like they are, I think we could see 4-5 being in our starting XI in the future.
Seriously, Juve are not that much better. At least our youth are out there winning things. Shown by our 2 Youth FA cup wins in three years and us reaching the final of nextgen.

Aside from Barca, how many teams actually promote more than one or two youth players, not many. Thats not what a youth team is there for. Its there for the players. To give them the best environment so they can grow into the best player they can be, if that is for said club, then all the better for the club, if not, then you can be proud you've done your bit for the future of football.

Errm.This is not about comparing youth academies here(we're discussing Chelsea here !),are you seriously getting my point ? Rather you're trying to brag about how many youth trophies you've won.Again you are merely reinforcing my point ,Chelsea youth have done well on the domestic and international stage yet there could've been some productive use for the Chelsea first team but there isnt since 1.Hardly any opportunities are given 2.Roman purchases 40m,50m players at will ,even at the slightest of problems he looks towards the transfer window ,seriously with this kind of free-spending policy there isnt any real room for youth players to breakthrough.You are the Real Madrid of England essentially in that sense.

And you're mentioning 1 player breaking through ,really ? And ironically that was much before the takeover from Roman.

You're missing my point, Juve are no better, YNWA (thanks for having my back buddy ) summed it up nicely, instead of blindly hating Chelsea, like you have openly said you do, reconsider, realise we're not that bad and few clubs actually promote more than we do and that we are changing our ways. Did you know Chelsea promoted a player from our youth team this year, more recently than Juve, His name is Nathan Ake, and if rumours are to be believed, he could remain a part of it next season. Then there is Ryan Bertrand, who, started the CL final, on his CL debut, another youth product who recently graduated.

Now, still think you're original statement is correct?

Sugs the Gremlin strikes again.

Lads become a parody of himself.

Gil wrote:Sugs the Gremlin strikes again.

Lads become a parody of himself.

Ironic.

Kick wrote:

Surag wrote:

Kick wrote:Quick question, of your starting XI, how many are from your youth team?
let me answer that, two and one of which you sold and then bought back!
How many do Chelsea have? 1 but if our youth keep progressing like they are, I think we could see 4-5 being in our starting XI in the future.
Seriously, Juve are not that much better. At least our youth are out there winning things. Shown by our 2 Youth FA cup wins in three years and us reaching the final of nextgen.

Aside from Barca, how many teams actually promote more than one or two youth players, not many. Thats not what a youth team is there for. Its there for the players. To give them the best environment so they can grow into the best player they can be, if that is for said club, then all the better for the club, if not, then you can be proud you've done your bit for the future of football.

Errm.This is not about comparing youth academies here(we're discussing Chelsea here !),are you seriously getting my point ? Rather you're trying to brag about how many youth trophies you've won.Again you are merely reinforcing my point ,Chelsea youth have done well on the domestic and international stage yet there could've been some productive use for the Chelsea first team but there isnt since 1.Hardly any opportunities are given 2.Roman purchases 40m,50m players at will ,even at the slightest of problems he looks towards the transfer window ,seriously with this kind of free-spending policy there isnt any real room for youth players to breakthrough.You are the Real Madrid of England essentially in that sense.

And you're mentioning 1 player breaking through ,really ? And ironically that was much before the takeover from Roman.

You're missing my point, Juve are no better, YNWA (thanks for having my back buddy ) summed it up nicely, instead of blindly hating Chelsea, like you have openly said you do, reconsider, realise we're not that bad and few clubs actually promote more than we do and that we are changing our ways. Did you know Chelsea promoted a player from our youth team this year, more recently than Juve, His name is Nathan Ake, and if rumours are to be believed, he could remain a part of it next season. Then there is Ryan Bertrand, who, started the CL final, on his CL debut, another youth product who recently graduated.

Now, still think you're original statement is correct?

But how many of them really are an integral part of Chelsea? Bertrand started in the CL final and his matches due to the circumstantial injuries and suspensions and as of now, hardly is a vital part of their squad, along with have little to boast about. Ake? Has he even started for Chelsea though? Juventus have used Luca Marrone who has been spectacular in his performances and is the heir to Bonnuci's future role, then there is Giovinco, De Ceglie who both have made excellent contributions (despite the shortcomings) to Juve's season while Schiavone, Beltrame and Rugani are all promoted to the first team.

I've been an advocate of Chelsea's youth system but also hold criticism for how they waste their primavera just like how Milan have for years (until recently) but Juventus' Primavera surely has the edge as of now. Although they did have the advantage of having generations of pedigree, philosophy and the funds to initiate a project far earlier then Chelsea.

Fact is, both of them are excellent systems.

Arquitecto wrote:

Kick wrote:

Surag wrote:

Errm.This is not about comparing youth academies here(we're discussing Chelsea here !),are you seriously getting my point ? Rather you're trying to brag about how many youth trophies you've won.Again you are merely reinforcing my point ,Chelsea youth have done well on the domestic and international stage yet there could've been some productive use for the Chelsea first team but there isnt since 1.Hardly any opportunities are given 2.Roman purchases 40m,50m players at will ,even at the slightest of problems he looks towards the transfer window ,seriously with this kind of free-spending policy there isnt any real room for youth players to breakthrough.You are the Real Madrid of England essentially in that sense.

And you're mentioning 1 player breaking through ,really ? And ironically that was much before the takeover from Roman.

You're missing my point, Juve are no better, YNWA (thanks for having my back buddy ) summed it up nicely, instead of blindly hating Chelsea, like you have openly said you do, reconsider, realise we're not that bad and few clubs actually promote more than we do and that we are changing our ways. Did you know Chelsea promoted a player from our youth team this year, more recently than Juve, His name is Nathan Ake, and if rumours are to be believed, he could remain a part of it next season. Then there is Ryan Bertrand, who, started the CL final, on his CL debut, another youth product who recently graduated.

Now, still think you're original statement is correct?

But how many of them really are an integral part of Chelsea? Bertrand started in the CL final and his matches due to the circumstantial injuries and suspensions and as of now, hardly is a vital part of their squad, along with have little to boast about. Ake? Has he even started for Chelsea though? Juventus have used Luca Marrone who has been spectacular in his performances and is the heir to Bonnuci's future role, then there is Giovinco, De Ceglie who both have made excellent contributions (despite the shortcomings) to Juve's season while Schiavone, Beltrame and Rugani are all promoted to the first team.

I've been an advocate of Chelsea's youth system but also hold criticism for how they waste their primavera just like how Milan have for years (until recently) but Juventus' Primavera surely has the edge as of now. Although they did have the advantage of having generations of pedigree, philosophy and the funds to initiate a project far earlier then Chelsea.

Fact is, both of them are excellent systems.

Ake has started a game, I fail to remember which though. My point was not to show how vital our youth players are currently, but to prove that in the future, we will be more reliant on youth and players such as Ake, Chalobah and McEachran will become vital cogs in the chelsea first team machine. This point Surag doesn't seem to understand.

Kick wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:

Kick wrote:

You're missing my point, Juve are no better, YNWA (thanks for having my back buddy ) summed it up nicely, instead of blindly hating Chelsea, like you have openly said you do, reconsider, realise we're not that bad and few clubs actually promote more than we do and that we are changing our ways. Did you know Chelsea promoted a player from our youth team this year, more recently than Juve, His name is Nathan Ake, and if rumours are to be believed, he could remain a part of it next season. Then there is Ryan Bertrand, who, started the CL final, on his CL debut, another youth product who recently graduated.

Now, still think you're original statement is correct?

But how many of them really are an integral part of Chelsea? Bertrand started in the CL final and his matches due to the circumstantial injuries and suspensions and as of now, hardly is a vital part of their squad, along with have little to boast about. Ake? Has he even started for Chelsea though? Juventus have used Luca Marrone who has been spectacular in his performances and is the heir to Bonnuci's future role, then there is Giovinco, De Ceglie who both have made excellent contributions (despite the shortcomings) to Juve's season while Schiavone, Beltrame and Rugani are all promoted to the first team.

I've been an advocate of Chelsea's youth system but also hold criticism for how they waste their primavera just like how Milan have for years (until recently) but Juventus' Primavera surely has the edge as of now. Although they did have the advantage of having generations of pedigree, philosophy and the funds to initiate a project far earlier then Chelsea.

Fact is, both of them are excellent systems.

Ake has started a game, I fail to remember which though. My point was not to show how vital our youth players are currently, but to prove that in the future, we will be more reliant on youth and players such as Ake, Chalobah and McEachran will become vital cogs in the chelsea first team machine. This point Surag doesn't seem to understand.

My mistake Kick, for misunderstanding the premise of your debate. Since we also are speaking of youth products outside Chelsea, well there is Borini, who has endeared to Liverpool and Roma fans, van Aanholt who has had an excellent season at Vitesse, de Bruyne....enough said, Bousuffa, share of credit to DS23 who is awesome, Huth (who has proven to be a solid CB) and others I may be forgetting. So in that sense, Chelsea have been considerably impressive given the short time span they've been given to bloom their primavera. I've seen how they work their system, Buck has implemented an age old format that Pro Vercelli and Coverciano use.

I think your disagreement with Surag spurns from the lack of specificity in which facets of a youth system to compare and their resources allocated to them.

As much as I'd love to claim De Bruyne, he is not our youth player, we do have the likes of Stoch (Fenerbahce), Matic (Benfica), Bruma, Mancienne, Rajdkovic (Hamburg) Piazon (Malaga) among others.

While not many make our first team, we have many solid players across Europe which I take as a successful youth team.

I would much rather see the likes of Stoch, Borini and Sturridge succeed elsewhere than rot on the bench with us.

Aston Villa won the Next Gen series by beating Chelsea 2-0

This could mean Villa continuing to use their youths in their first team squad.

And this would mean playing in the Championship.

True. They just need more experienced players along with using the youths in a balanced way.

they need to resign carew to reunite the deadly Carew--Agbonlahor partnership.

In all seriousness though, I did not see this coming at all. Comes as a huge shock to me. I don't really follow EPL youth, but even so this is quite a remarkable achievement.

Benteke's doing well for them atm and also Agbonlahor's alright. Plus they also have Bent, who's a good goalscorer.

Juve fans, if Chelsea's youth academy is so woeful then why did piazon choose us over you :I'munoriginal:"

Yohan Modric wrote:This could mean Villa continuing to use their youths in their first team squad.

That's one of the issues with their squad at the moment though.

They have great youth but you still need the older more experienced guys to lead you and stay strong in those more intense games.

Didn't get to see the game, from what i've read we were pretty ordinary in the second half, still a shame to lose 2-0 on penalties(no matter how legit they were).

fatman123 wrote:Juve fans, if Chelsea's youth academy is so woeful then why did piazon choose us over you :I'munoriginal:"

Pretty poor question with all due respect to which there is a very easy answer to.

Spoiler:

And i get it you havent read any of my posts properly(where i am actually praising your academy).Again this is not about comparing youth academies here.I wonder if you can guys can have a discussion without making comparisons smh.There is no point in having a youth academy when you can so easily buy yourself towards success especially when there is no policy or 'philosophy' when it comes to using youth,its never been there under Roman's leadership.(that applies clubs like City and PSG as well).Its merely just being kept as a showpiece of the club as far as i see it.And to the guy who says you're going to make money out of selling those youth who dont make it at the club ,well that is like pocket change for Roman ,a pittance amount which hardly matters as opposed to Italian clubs where that money would be helpful for making useful transfers cos they are not in a position to be able blow up 40m/50m every window.

While Kick remains optimistic that your side is soon going to make effective use of your top youth academy ,i highly doubt that will ever happen(Under Roman's ownership atleast).

RealGunner wrote:Aston Villa won the Next Gen series by beating Chelsea 2-0

don't be surprised their youth are amazing

Lewis Baker was named player of the tournament.


I don't see Chelsea promoting youths on a regular basis not because of Roman and the board policy but because of a structural issue in England. The gap between Chelsea first team and U21 league is massive, the U21 league is not competitive enough to get them ready for the senior squad. Until England goes with the same route as Germany and Spain i can't feel optimistic about our youngsters..

halamadrid2 wrote:

RealGunner wrote:Aston Villa won the Next Gen series by beating Chelsea 2-0

don't be surprised their youth are amazing

Congrats to Aston Villa and rightfully deserved their victory, great team victory but i wasn't impressed with their individual talents.

RealGunner wrote:Aston Villa won the Next Gen series by beating Chelsea 2-0

Replay was on Eurosport earlier. Only watch 20 mins or so but Chelsea were ALL OVER them.

Very surprised to hear they ended up losing.