Francesco Totti vs Alessandro Del Piero

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Post by Guest Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:00 am

BY the way... What Fonz said... can we stop all the disgusting remarks about Totti? I'm sick of it, and tired of it... People who judge him off the pitch(In which he in fact never did wrong) should know better. The man is a legend... An Italian legend... I don't know, I just don't see me as an Azzurri fan ever disrespecting the man, I should be making remarks about how Balotelli and Cassano are degenerates and yet I'm a big fan of Cassano's and I praise Balotelli way to much as my signature shows.

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Post by fatman123 Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:17 pm

no comment on the topic whatsoever, just wanted to add the 100th post Very Happy
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Post by ErPupone Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:09 pm

Thank you Sciacca, finally someone with a little respect and recognition able to put his love for Del Piero aside for this discussion. As for the Gila goal, he did not directly assist it. But, if Cannavaro had attempted that pass himself, I'm not quite sure he would've played in Gilardino as well and maybe that second goal would've never came. As for the role Totti had with the national team, yes you're completely right. He was never an out and out striker for Italy, or even a seconda punta. He was 90% of the time a trequartista behind two strikers between the likes of Vieri, Montella, Delvecchio, Cassano, Gilardino, Toni, etc. (for the 2006 WC, he was a trequartista behind Toni alone, but that was only after a few matches). His role was not to score with the national team, but to add fluidity to the team and to be the link between our midfield and our strikers. Our counter attacks passed through him who, even with one touch, was able to launch someone towards the opposing goal. Ffs he even made Iaquinta look like a star against Australia.

Juve_gigi, your post was quite comical. Baggio was not the best Italian player of all time (I don't think you could even give that title to anyone, there's just too many names to choose from.... He's definitely top 5 or even top 3, but to make such a statement is rather rash and inconsiderate to the likes of Meazza, Rivera, Rossi and so on). And to claim that every reasonable person thinks that Del Piero is better than Totti, then you're saying that I, The Fonz, Sciacca and a bunch of other people who contributed to this thread through comments and votes do not have any knowledge of Italian football. Now I for one don't place that much importance on polls of this sort since there's a whole bunch of other factors affecting the votes, such as preferences and so on. But it seems rather rash to make an assumption of the sort.

Del Piero the third best Italian player of all time? With all the respect in the world towards Del Piero, absolutely not, I'm sorry. You talked to your Milanista friend... who was this friend exactly? One of the Maldini's? Someone like Gattuso or Nesta who have played with both Totti and Del Piero? Sorry but your "friend's" opinion does nothing but demonstrate how naive you probably are (I'm not going to make assumptions about you personally, but I find it weird that you would use such a statement to prove your point). If there's no comparison between Totti and Del Piero, you are deluded. If Del Piero is in the top 10 Italian players of all time, then Totti is right up there with him, no doubt about it.

And finally, your last paragraph proves absolutely nothing. Totti won the Golden Boot (Top scorer of all of EUROPE) when he was 31, and that was just a year before Del Piero won the capocannoniere title (top scorer of Italy). You say Roma had a better team than Juventus in 2007 and from that you say that Del Piero's title is more meaningful because he was on the weaker side, which somehow makes Del Piero better. By that logic, Cristiano Lucarelli is better than both Totti and Del Piero because he was capocannoniere with Livorno in 2004-2005, a weaker side than both Roma and Juve, and he was 30. And guess what, the was the year Livorno came back up from Serie B. Interesting. So your conclusion, if you continue to use the same logic and stick by your argument is...

Best Italian players of all time:

1. Roberto Baggio
2. Cristiano Lucarelli
3. Alessandro Del Piero
















somehwere down here: Francesco Totti


F*** me, this list is in desperate need of that coffee guy.
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Post by Guest Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:37 pm

No Mike, don't get the wrong impression about Juve_Gigi. He's an amazing guy, nicest guy I know in fact. Just that when it comes down to these topics, he and most Juventino act like this, which is very normal as it a big deal for them. Take for example me, when it comes to the national team, how much pride I put in, and I keep going at it with the haters and take it to another level sometimes.... lol even praise Wiggles, even though he's always right. Don't take it to personal with him, he's not niave, and I know you said your not concluding assumptions, but just clarifying it. He's a great guy.

Forza Mike, Forza Pino!

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Post by juve_gigi Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:50 pm

ErPupone wrote:Thank you Sciacca, finally someone with a little respect and recognition able to put his love for Del Piero aside for this discussion. As for the Gila goal, he did not directly assist it. But, if Cannavaro had attempted that pass himself, I'm not quite sure he would've played in Gilardino as well and maybe that second goal would've never came. As for the role Totti had with the national team, yes you're completely right. He was never an out and out striker for Italy, or even a seconda punta. He was 90% of the time a trequartista behind two strikers between the likes of Vieri, Montella, Delvecchio, Cassano, Gilardino, Toni, etc. (for the 2006 WC, he was a trequartista behind Toni alone, but that was only after a few matches). His role was not to score with the national team, but to add fluidity to the team and to be the link between our midfield and our strikers. Our counter attacks passed through him who, even with one touch, was able to launch someone towards the opposing goal. Ffs he even made Iaquinta look like a star against Australia.

Juve_gigi, your post was quite comical. Baggio was not the best Italian player of all time (I don't think you could even give that title to anyone, there's just too many names to choose from.... He's definitely top 5 or even top 3, but to make such a statement is rather rash and inconsiderate to the likes of Meazza, Rivera, Rossi and so on). And to claim that every reasonable person thinks that Del Piero is better than Totti, then you're saying that I, The Fonz, Sciacca and a bunch of other people who contributed to this thread through comments and votes do not have any knowledge of Italian football. Now I for one don't place that much importance on polls of this sort since there's a whole bunch of other factors affecting the votes, such as preferences and so on. But it seems rather rash to make an assumption of the sort.

Del Piero the third best Italian player of all time? With all the respect in the world towards Del Piero, absolutely not, I'm sorry. You talked to your Milanista friend... who was this friend exactly? One of the Maldini's? Someone like Gattuso or Nesta who have played with both Totti and Del Piero? Sorry but your "friend's" opinion does nothing but demonstrate how naive you probably are (I'm not going to make assumptions about you personally, but I find it weird that you would use such a statement to prove your point). If there's no comparison between Totti and Del Piero, you are deluded. If Del Piero is in the top 10 Italian players of all time, then Totti is right up there with him, no doubt about it.

And finally, your last paragraph proves absolutely nothing. Totti won the Golden Boot (Top scorer of all of EUROPE) when he was 31, and that was just a year before Del Piero won the capocannoniere title (top scorer of Italy). You say Roma had a better team than Juventus in 2007 and from that you say that Del Piero's title is more meaningful because he was on the weaker side, which somehow makes Del Piero better. By that logic, Cristiano Lucarelli is better than both Totti and Del Piero because he was capocannoniere with Livorno in 2004-2005, a weaker side than both Roma and Juve, and he was 30. And guess what, the was the year Livorno came back up from Serie B. Interesting. So your conclusion, if you continue to use the same logic and stick by your argument is...

Best Italian players of all time:

1. Roberto Baggio
2. Cristiano Lucarelli
3. Alessandro Del Piero
















somehwere down here: Francesco Totti


F*** me, this list is in desperate need of that coffee guy.

Sorry but I am 45 years old and my "friend" is 49. We have been watching Italian football since before most of you were born. I will stick with what I said as I have discussed with even my older frends and uncles over the years who grew up watching Rivera abd Riva and other players.

Again, Totti is a great player no doubt and an Italian legend, but the greatest Italian player ever, no disrespect to Rivera and Riva, is Roberto Baggio. I don't care how many goals he scored or how many teams he played for, his talent was on the level of Diego Maradona, and you needed to watch him live, not just youtube videos, to actually understand this. I have followed Italian football since the late 80's, early 90's, I was even in Italy in 1982 at my uncle's house watching the world cup final and watching Paolo Rossi dazzle the world. I can safely say that Baggio is greater than Rossi, as I watched them both. Also, since following Juventus since 1991 I can safely say that Del Piero was just a notch below, unfortunate that he injured his knee or he might have been greater than Baggio. I also watched Totti many, many times over the last 10-15 years with my other friend who is 43 and is a Romanista. Totti was a great, great player, a great trequartista, one of the best I have seen for sure.

But at the end of the day, from everything I ever watched over the last 20 years I can safely say Baggio was the best I ever saw play other than Maradona and Ronaldo, and Del Piero was a notch below, and Totti a notch below him.

To sciacca, of course I never saw Riva or Meazza or Rivera play so I am a bit biased, it is hard to compare players of different generations as you didn't really see them play you can only read articles and watch videos, so I will rephrase what I said and state unequivocally that Roberto Baggio was the greatest Italian player of my generation, going back to the late 70's early 80's.
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Post by juve_gigi Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:07 pm

sciacca wrote:No Mike, don't get the wrong impression about Juve_Gigi. He's an amazing guy, nicest guy I know in fact. Just that when it comes down to these topics, he and most Juventino act like this, which is very normal as it a big deal for them. Take for example me, when it comes to the national team, how much pride I put in, and I keep going at it with the haters and take it to another level sometimes.... lol even praise Wiggles, even though he's always right. Don't take it to personal with him, he's not niave, and I know you said your not concluding assumptions, but just clarifying it. He's a great guy.

Forza Mike, Forza Pino!

Haha, thanks Sciacca, I meant no disrespect to Mike or any other Romanista, that's for sure. Again, it is hard to compare players like this, especially when we have our biases, so even though I just posted a reponse to Mike I will say this. Francesco Totti is without a doubt one of the greatest Italian players of our generation, a great trequartista who could dazzle you with his skill and also play an upfront striker role and score tremendous goals. He was the capocannoniere in 2006-2007 and also was one of the top players at the world cup in 2006. He is for sure an Italian legend.

However, seeing both Del Piero and Totti play over the last 15 years I can safely say that Del Piero was the better player, but of course there is no chart or website to accurately show this, it is always one's personal opinion, so I will leave it at that. I am just going by what I saw with my eyes, not just the stats, and also what people have always said to me over the last 20 years about certain players. I am a Juventino so you can consider me biased, I have no problem stating that. So like I said you probably need to conduct a poll of outsiders to determine the results on this. An of course even then you could never convince me or Mike to change our opinions, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

Let's just say that both Del Piero and Totti are Italian legends and legends at their own clubs, two players that had so much loyalty that they only ever played for one team, and of course both world cup champions.

cheers
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Post by zarola Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:40 pm

I think Buffon is the best Italian of all time except I havent seen our players before the 90s lmao.
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Post by ErPupone Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:52 pm

sciacca wrote:No Mike, don't get the wrong impression about Juve_Gigi. He's an amazing guy, nicest guy I know in fact. Just that when it comes down to these topics, he and most Juventino act like this, which is very normal as it a big deal for them. Take for example me, when it comes to the national team, how much pride I put in, and I keep going at it with the haters and take it to another level sometimes.... lol even praise Wiggles, even though he's always right. Don't take it to personal with him, he's not niave, and I know you said your not concluding assumptions, but just clarifying it. He's a great guy.

Forza Mike, Forza Pino!

I'll take your word for it. I have no problem with him, you or any other Juventino defending Del Piero (actually I would have a problem if you didn't). But his other post seemed like an exaggeration, saying that there's no contest between the two.

To Juve_Gigi (I'm guessing your name is Pino lol), I never for one second doubted Baggio's talent and achievements, let me make that point clear. He was an absolutely fantastic player. However, to label him as the best Italian of all-time is quite difficult to do because there are so many other legends of past decades which can make a convincing case for themselves. As for him being the best player in the past 2-3 decades, then I would agree. Totti and Del Piero are then a notch below, yes. But, I would say they are very much leveled. Totti also had his fair share of injuries as well (although they came later in his career compared to Del Piero). He even won the Golden Boot while having 9 screws in his right ankle, quite an accomplishment within itself. He came back from his injury amazingly quickly (most players with the same injury as the one he got in 2006 are usually out for double the time that Totti was out for, if not more) to give an immense contribution to Italy's World Cup. This is something which is often overlooked by many many people.

But of course you are going to say that Del Piero is better, it's only natural. I'm sure you've watched him very closely, a lot more closely than Totti who's work even goes unnoticed sometimes, especially outside of Rome where our club doesn't have as big of a spotlight. Had Totti left Roma, I'm sure he would've been held in much higher regard by everyone. But he didn't, so he wasn't showcased internationally as much as Del Piero who's club has often made it very far in the Champions League. But looking at talent simply, at the risk of sounding extremely repetitive, there isn't enough between them to say which one is better.
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Post by Guest Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:20 am

Put it this way, He is in fact the most talented player we had in our history, but the most talented does not mean you are the best. If anything I rate Paolo Rossi the same as Baggio, not in talent but as in hero's... and favorsm... Although... you look back, not every talented player can win it, 1994 will always haunt us...

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Post by juve_gigi Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:01 am

Major Update:

Great news for Mike and all the other Romanisti out there. I just spoke with my 74 year old uncle who has followed Italian football for over 45 years, he was born and raised in Italy and came to Canada in 1957. He knows more about Italian football than all of us combined, and he has confirmed that indeed Francesco Totti is a greater player than Alessandro Del Piero. He said Totti made a team by himself and Del Piero just played on one with a bunch of stars, which is technically true, although I would counter that Del Piero also made his team better. Also, he rates Totti as having more pure talent than Del Piero. I disagreed with him but he is the one person I know who has followed Italian football more than anyone I have ever known, so I have to respect his opinion on this. I still rate Del Piero higher personally, but my uncles' opinion to me weighs very heavily on this subject, so I am going to have to eat crow on this and say at the very least they are equals.

However, I have been somewhat vindicated as my uncle did indeed confirm that Roberto Baggio is THE greatest Italian player ever. And my uncle would know as he has actually seen Gigi Riva and Gianni Rivera play live in Italy. He says that Baggio would actually make the top XI players of all time, the only Italian that would be on that list. He said Gigi Riva would be second and Gianni Rivera third. He said Baggio was the best player he ever watched not named Maradona or Ronaldo. Maradona is a notch higher and he said is THE greatest player ever.

So sciacca, my uncle has spoken on this and he gets the last word. I have been partially redeemed. Romanisti, rejoice this is your night to celebrate. My uncle has spoken and your man, Francesco Totti, is indeed the better player...

Thumbs up
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Post by ErPupone Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:47 am

juve_gigi wrote:Major Update:

Great news for Mike and all the other Romanisti out there. I just spoke with my 74 year old uncle who has followed Italian football for over 45 years, he was born and raised in Italy and came to Canada in 1957. He knows more about Italian football than all of us combined, and he has confirmed that indeed Francesco Totti is a greater player than Alessandro Del Piero. He said Totti made a team by himself and Del Piero just played on one with a bunch of stars, which is technically true, although I would counter that Del Piero also made his team better. Also, he rates Totti as having more pure talent than Del Piero. I disagreed with him but he is the one person I know who has followed Italian football more than anyone I have ever known, so I have to respect his opinion on this. I still rate Del Piero higher personally, but my uncles' opinion to me weighs very heavily on this subject, so I am going to have to eat crow on this and say at the very least they are equals.

However, I have been somewhat vindicated as my uncle did indeed confirm that Roberto Baggio is THE greatest Italian player ever. And my uncle would know as he has actually seen Gigi Riva and Gianni Rivera play live in Italy. He says that Baggio would actually make the top XI players of all time, the only Italian that would be on that list. He said Gigi Riva would be second and Gianni Rivera third. He said Baggio was the best player he ever watched not named Maradona or Ronaldo. Maradona is a notch higher and he said is THE greatest player ever.

So sciacca, my uncle has spoken on this and he gets the last word. I have been partially redeemed. Romanisti, rejoice this is your night to celebrate. My uncle has spoken and your man, Francesco Totti, is indeed the better player...

Thumbs up

YES, Victory !!!! cheers Totti = God.

Just kidding. Listen, I respect your family's opinion, though it's difficult to conclude an argument this way lol. I'm glad that you somewhat changed your view since your original post in this thread where you claimed that they were in completely different leagues. My goal wasn't to do that, but more to defend Totti who does not really get the respect he deserves. Admittedly Totti has more of a tarnished image given that he at times let his emotions get the better of him (though, sometimes with reason) and I think that's the only reason why people rate Del Piero higher. In terms of sheer talent, class, leadership, loyalty and decisiveness, they are very much leveled... and I would even go on to say that they are leveled right at the top of the best players in this past decade.
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Post by Guest Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:14 am

Woh, don't get me wrong. I stand by my opinion and Del Piero is still better, not as a bias opinion because I'm not that type of person, but as stats and achievements come to play, it dosen't matter if Del Piero was surronded by all big stars or if he was in a better club, he did more in which makes him better regardless of anything, however I'm not excluding nor forgetting what Totti has achieved or won due to his loyalties in Roma. I'll say this, Totti does have more talent, but once again. TALENT DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE BETTER PLAYER SADLY. Yes Mike, a long time ago you proved me wrong when I said Baggio scored less penalties than Totti when it came to most goals, however I was proven wrong when in fact Baggio scored more of his goals from Penalties. Shame on me... but I explained this before. Nonetheless, I do not disrespect Totti and both players are better in two different stories. Everyone knows that.... Both are legends and that is the point here. Both are World Champions. Though, Totti can still prove to be better as he is younger and has some years in him still... he showed it last season that's for sure.

As for the best Italian of all time, once again, Baggio is the most TALENTED player we ever had, not the BEST player. If he was the BEST. He would be a World Champion, He would be on the top of both the national team's scoring list and Serie A list in which Totti passed. Gigi Riva and Meazza are above Baggio. There's many ways to conclude best,

Baggio is the BEST Fantastista and Trequartista...
Gigi Riva the BEST player of all time in goals with la Nazionale...
Pirlo the BEST Regista Italy could ever produce
Meazza the BEST player we had in our early journies, a multiple WC Winner.
Dino Zoff the BEST Goalkeeper in the last century
Buffon the BEST keeper of this decade
Paolo Rossi the BEST Hero in our history
Maldini the BEST Defensemen we ever had
Gattuso the BEST ruthless Center Midfielder we had
Cannavaro the BEST Captain(As he has had the most caps with the arm band)


Abate the best player in the World! :coffee:

You notice that Totti and Del Piero are not on that list? Because they are not the best, nor are they in the top 3.
That is once again between Meazza, Riva and Baggio.

Totti is the best Roma Player.
Del Peiro is the best Juventus Player.

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Post by ErPupone Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:52 pm

sciacca wrote:Woh, don't get me wrong. I stand by my opinion and Del Piero is still better, not as a bias opinion because I'm not that type of person, but as stats and achievements come to play, it dosen't matter if Del Piero was surronded by all big stars or if he was in a better club, he did more in which makes him better regardless of anything, however I'm not excluding nor forgetting what Totti has achieved or won due to his loyalties in Roma. I'll say this, Totti does have more talent, but once again. TALENT DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE BETTER PLAYER SADLY. Yes Mike, a long time ago you proved me wrong when I said Baggio scored less penalties than Totti when it came to most goals, however I was proven wrong when in fact Baggio scored more of his goals from Penalties. Shame on me... but I explained this before. Nonetheless, I do not disrespect Totti and both players are better in two different stories. Everyone knows that.... Both are legends and that is the point here. Both are World Champions. Though, Totti can still prove to be better as he is younger and has some years in him still... he showed it last season that's for sure.

As for the best Italian of all time, once again, Baggio is the most TALENTED player we ever had, not the BEST player. If he was the BEST. He would be a World Champion, He would be on the top of both the national team's scoring list and Serie A list in which Totti passed. Gigi Riva and Meazza are above Baggio. There's many ways to conclude best,

Baggio is the BEST Fantastista and Trequartista...
Gigi Riva the BEST player of all time in goals with la Nazionale...
Pirlo the BEST Regista Italy could ever produce
Meazza the BEST player we had in our early journies, a multiple WC Winner.
Dino Zoff the BEST Goalkeeper in the last century
Buffon the BEST keeper of this decade
Paolo Rossi the BEST Hero in our history
Maldini the BEST Defensemen we ever had
Gattuso the BEST ruthless Center Midfielder we had
Cannavaro the BEST Captain(As he has had the most caps with the arm band)


Abate the best player in the World! :coffee:

You notice that Totti and Del Piero are not on that list? Because they are not the best, nor are they in the top 3.
That is once again between Meazza, Riva and Baggio.

Totti is the best Roma Player.
Del Peiro is the best Juventus Player.

I never said that Del Piero and Totti were in the top 3 of anything though, aside from being amongst the best players of this past decade in Serie A and... well I'll leave it at that not to incur the wrath of anyone else.

Also, Del Piero has won more collectively, but I don't see how that makes him a better player... he had the team around him to win the Champions League, whereas the closest Roma ever got was a couple of years ago when we made it to the quarterfinals. Del Piero did do more, but I don't think that's even up for discussion, it's a given. But in comparing two players, you can't do that becuase by that logic, Totti and Del Piero are both better than Baggio becuase they have a World Cup to brag about, the most prestigious and desired trophy in the world. But hey that would be good enough for me lol.

Anyways, I think we beat this subject heavily into the ground.
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Post by Guest Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:07 pm

I know you didn't say the top 3, I was directed that to those who mentioned Del Piero or Totti right behind Baggio. In which is in top 3. In the past decade of course... Now you see that is a true debate, who is the best Italian this past decade?

- Buffon
- Cannavaro
- Pirlo
- Del Piero

In this past decade are the best players.

No Del Piero's achievements are just additions to what I said and no that is not a way to compare both players like I said before. However he did do more in which I stated before, there's a difference there. Doing more meaning scoring more goals for the national team(Yes, I know Totti was not meant to score, however his assists are not equal to how many goals Del Piero had), including scoring goals in other tourmanents and etc... The main thing I'm trying to say is Del Piero achieved more, regardless of both clubs. Baggio achived more when he played in many various clubs... Thats what makes him a great player as well. Totti having more goals in Serie A, however Del Piero having much more with Juve it's self. And yes I agree you can't compare both players with that, but sometimes you have too... Because one player did one thing and the other player did that other. Well we can brag about Baggio not being a World Cup winner, however I stated that before in which Totti and Del Piero do have advantage, 1994 will haunt him for ever, but there is no way Totti or Del piero are better than Baggio. Once again, Totti can only be compared to Baggio when it comes to assists and goals.


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Francesco Totti vs Alessandro Del Piero - Page 5 Empty Re: Francesco Totti vs Alessandro Del Piero

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