The Official Move Ramires Back into CM Thread

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Post by Gil Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:36 pm

He'll never be an effective winger and before you bring up Barcelona. They're the only team in the World that would leave that much space for him to exploit.

Don't care how inconsistent his first touch/passing is he's a midfielder. Let him develop there rather than wasting his 3/4 outstanding qualities outwide.
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Post by Bear Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:37 pm

he's shite in the pivot tho, unless we move back to a 4-3-3 which I don't particularly want to see.
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Post by Ganso Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:00 pm

Ramires being shet in the pivot is a myth,he played his entire career there pre chelsea.

in the end of the day he is not a winger,period
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Post by Gil Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:42 pm

Bear-Felix wrote:he's shite in the pivot tho, unless we move back to a 4-3-3 which I don't particularly want to see.

One bad game = shite in the pivot?
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Post by Abramovich Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:54 pm

Him bursting through the middle of the pitch was my favourite thing during the AVB era :bow:.

Newton said it straight how Oscar long term future is in the pivot (said it all along) but that he isn't ready yet. Which leaves Frank, Mikel, Romeu & you know who as the remaining midfielders.

I've always said I don't want Rambo on the wing & same goes for Mata.
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Post by Gil Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:18 pm

How do you feel about Mata Ade? He's obviously an immense attacking talent but his unwillingness to track back, failure to support the forwards and lack of any athleticism whatsoever makes me think he hurts this current team more than he helps.

Also felt his form was much better when he was given a free role from the left under AVB but he's been shite since he got sacked IMO.

With Oscar's & Hazard's arrival I no longer feel he's an automatic choice in the first team atm.
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Post by Abramovich Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:32 pm

He needs a rest first and foremost, which he would have gotten due to the international break. He is the man who should be playing behind Torres, that bromance is just :bow:.

I reckon he is still suffering from the pace of the league, added that with no xmas break or summer break. It's like Silvas first season or so faded latter on, these babies are delicate Heart .

Oscar for me is a no brainer, we will probably be playing over 50 matches or so this season. For now he will be the back up to the CAM spot, but that doesn't mean he won't get a shed load of minutes because he will (well I hope). He has the talent but no need to jizz all over him because he played vs China, he needs to adapt to European football first. Bleed him in nice and slowly, don't want to pressure him like we did with Ramires when he first joined.

Hazard in the middle can GTFO for me, guy needs to stay out wide. Although saying that he is free to roam where ever he wants, as long as he does those sexy dribbles :bow:.
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Post by Kick Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:26 pm

Ramires is going to have to play CM at spme point this season. With Moses and Marin able to play now I doubt we will see him on the wing much either.
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Post by Blue Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:11 pm

This thread should be renamed to "The Official Move Ramires to the bench thread," because quite honestly that's where he belong.



@Gil wrote:
Bear-Felix wrote:he's shite in the pivot tho, unless we move back to a 4-3-3 which I don't particularly want to see.

One bad game = shite in the pivot?




In every opportunity i have seen of him in the pivot he has been shite with Chelsea and Brazil.

@Ganso wrote:Ramires being shet in the pivot is a myth,he played his entire career there pre chelsea.

in the end of the day he is not a winger,period

agreed he is not a winger. At Benfica he played as a RM though, not sure where he played at Cruzeiro. But according to the Cruzeiro fan here he played at numerous positions, and they were not sure where his best position was either.

He has sucked in the pivot for Brazil, in fact he hasn't been good for the NT since Dunga was there. In fact he also played as a RM, or whatever it was it was definitely not in the pivot. The reason i am not sure because Dunga formation sometime looked like the diamond and other time it looked like 4-1-3-2.

Ramires best position is more of a free and unrestricted role. Which he enjoyed at Benfica and Dunga's Brazil. He basically had the same role in AVB 4-3-3, he played off the ball and barely used in the team buildups. On defense he basically pressed throughout the game, without much tactical discipline.

I actually challenge anyone to prove that he has played well in the pivot from one time and another?

#InB4ChinaGame



@Gil wrote:How do you feel about Mata Ade? He's obviously an immense attacking talent but his unwillingness to track back, failure to support the forwards and lack of any athleticism whatsoever makes me think he hurts this current team more than he helps.

Also felt his form was much better when he was given a free role from the left under AVB but he's been shite since he got sacked IMO.

With Oscar's & Hazard's arrival I no longer feel he's an automatic choice in the first team atm.

Bullshit the only time Mata looked bad after AVB was sacked, was when we were spending the entire game hoofing the ball to Drogba. Don't think Hazard or Oscar could have done better in those games. Mata is a player that likes possession and thrives in, same goes for Oscar and Hazard.

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Post by fatman123 Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:54 am

@Kick wrote:Ramires is going to have to play CM at spme point this season. With Moses and Marin able to play now I doubt we will see him on the wing much either.

i agree with this and also what was said earlier about his bursts up the middle being awesome during AVBs time, when Ramires plays like that hes a real weapon on the counter (dat Anelka-Ramires combo on the counter :bow: )

personally i wouldnt mind seing Mikel and Ramires play together in the pivot and Lampard given a go in the AM role
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Post by Kick Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:27 am

No to Lamps in the AM role, especially with Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Moses and Marin all able to play there.

I wouldn't mind Ramires in CM with Mikel, both would have to improve their passing though.
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Post by Gil Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:16 pm

Come at me.
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Post by Blue Barrett Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:08 pm

Laughing
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Post by Kick Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:54 am

I really like Mikel-Ramires in the pivot. :bow:
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Post by Blue Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:54 am

It is kinda interesting, well Ramires has done what i expected him to do. Bring a lot of work rate and defensive quality into midfield.

But i thought Ramires and Mikel biggest problem would be in the attacking buildup and that was clearly our biggest problem against Arsenal. We really had trouble building attacks from the back and move the ball forward and to our attacking trio.

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Post by Kick Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:05 am

Romeu could solve that IMO. he is a better passer than Mikel.
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Post by Blue Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:16 am

@Kick wrote:Romeu could solve that IMO. he is a better passer than Mikel.

maybe, but our buildup is a concern.

Maybe we need to go to 4-3-2-1.
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Post by Kick Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:20 am

With Oscar playing deeper?

Shed would hate it tbh Razz
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Post by Blue Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:08 am

@Kick wrote:With Oscar playing deeper?

Shed would hate it tbh Razz

Lampard old LCM role is what i have in mind for Oscar, he would only play slightly deeper. He would still have the freedom to go forward but also contribute deeper in midfield.

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Post by Kick Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:21 am

it seems to be where we want to play him eventually.
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Post by Gil Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:01 am

@Blue wrote:
But i thought Ramires and Mikel biggest problem would be in the attacking buildup and that was clearly our biggest problem against Arsenal. We really had trouble building attacks from the back and move the ball forward and to our attacking trio.


You're talking bollocks here I'm afraid mate.

Torres, Mata, Oscar & Hazard had a combined 248 touches against Arsenal. They definitely saw enough of the ball.

We just didn't take full advantage of our counters & mistimed a few passes but that's to be expected seeing as we're still a team in transition. This team could be pretty scary if/when they gel.

Mikel and Ramires did great in my opinion. I still can't believe we basically outplayed Arsenal at their own game in their home. Arsenal are easily the best possession team in England so that takes some doing.

Shows how far we've come along. So excited about this team.
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Post by Blue Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:00 am

@Gil wrote:
@Blue wrote:
But i thought Ramires and Mikel biggest problem would be in the attacking buildup and that was clearly our biggest problem against Arsenal. We really had trouble building attacks from the back and move the ball forward and to our attacking trio.


You're talking bollocks here I'm afraid mate.

Torres, Mata, Oscar & Hazard had a combined 248 touches against Arsenal. They definitely saw enough of the ball.

We just didn't take full advantage of our counters & mistimed a few passes but that's to be expected seeing as we're still a team in transition. This team could be pretty scary if/when they gel.

Mikel and Ramires did great in my opinion. I still can't believe we basically outplayed Arsenal at their own game in their home. Arsenal are easily the best possession team in England so that takes some doing.

Shows how far we've come along. So excited about this team.

your missing my point, it wasn't about the touches of Oscar, Hazard, Mata, and Torres. I was talking about our team ability to build attacks. Our most successful way of building attacks were hoofing the ball from Luiz and Cech. We really did have trouble building attacks from the back. Neither Mikel or Ramires were attempting to get on the ball or dropping deeper to collect the ball from our CB's and start an attack.

In contrast look at Arteta and what he did for Arsenal.

btw lets not forget that both of our goals came from set pieces, i think would look at that game so much differently if it wasn't for our success in set pieces.


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Post by Kick Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:06 am

I agree blue, we are missing that kind of player, Hence why I suggested Romeu. He would be much more inclined to do that as opposed to Mikel. Another option is to tell Oscar to do it more but that would require him running, a lot. If he is that fit, that is what I would do.
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Post by iNFINITY9910 Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:17 am

As much as active Oscar is on the field, I doubt he has the physicality to play Mikel's role in the long run. I think he is far better a lil more forward.
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Post by Kick Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:26 am

@iNFINITY9910 wrote:As much as active Oscar is on the field, I doubt he has the physicality to play Mikel's role in the long run. I think he is far better a lil more forward.
Not what I meant by that.
Here is what I mean. When we win the ball back in defence.
The Official Move Ramires Back into CM Thread AbDsMlVajt
Oscar Drops deep to receive the ball from Terry.

He then looks to pass the ball To either a fullback, CM or winger before running up the pitch to his normal spot.
The Official Move Ramires Back into CM Thread AbDsMp3acn
The dotted line is his possible passes while the solid line is his run after he has released the ball.

Make sense?
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