Islamists attack US embassy in egypt on 9/11

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Post by rwo power Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:19 pm

Well, but that's not verifiable, which is the problem. And said ground personal are the ones that decide to take the right into their own hands and punish people as they see fit in *this* world.

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Post by Senor Penguin Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:31 pm

Mamad wrote:
I wasn't trying to imply you did.

So what's your point?
I was just expressing my opinion. The way I would have acted in the situation you proposed and gave you a rational reason.

And this is not paradoxical to you?

If God really thinks some things are so repulsive that those who do them require to burn in hell for all eternity then why didn't he just abolish the ability, which he himself created, altogether? Why create something which you don't want to happen? Does any designer plan to create something he doesn't want to?

Those who abide to God's laws (which are clearly not absolute because God, apparently, didn't do sufficiently the first time around because you recognize other religions as corrupt) get a reward. What purpose does this have for God? What is the ultimate purpose for him to supervise and judge this ever-evolving species?

We can't discuss why god created this or that. we can discuss if it is fair or not.

God doesn't like Many things and will punish people who do it. but he gives them choice. he tells you if you kill or rape someone you will burn in hell. that's clear. but despite knowing it you do it. your fault. you can't say i knew it is bad and i did it but i hate god for creating it. that's laughable.
Does the Quran explicitly prohibit rape? You claim it's "clear" but I don't recall reading about it.

That, however, doesn't even need to be in any book because we can easily rationalize why that is a bad thing. The same goes with killing.

If the human species really was as immoral and ferocious as the monotheistic religions claim it to be then I am quite surprised that it ever reached to the point of Judaism without obliterating itself. But of course it didn't: We now know that humans couldn't have obliterate themselves because that goes against the theory of evolution. That means that God willingly put in a biological safety-net which hinders humanity from such and even actively encourages them not to kill each other because it's not beneficial for us as a species.

Why didn't God go the whole way and just entirely destroy the ability to kill? Couldn't he have had a game of good vs evil without adding the ingredient of killing?

What this have for god? nothing. he created and gave human an opportunity to live and choose their way to Redemption or downfall.
If it has no purpose to God then why create it? Why does he find it purposeful to eternally please or eternally torture human beings if there's no larger purpose to it?

By no means do I say people are allowed to do as they please. If I and other 'secular' people thought so then we wouldn't want and wouldn't need any kind of legislation. It would be absolute anarchy. That's not the case!

I encourage legislation and I encourage it to be based upon sensible, well thought out morals and ethics.

You can't be entirely serious though. Would you seriously kill someone because an ancient book gave you permission to do so? A book which has no reliable historical proof for its divine claims? Are you serious?

This is exactly what I hate about religion. People are taught what to think instead of how to think. It's the exact opposite of modern science.

You want Humans to set rules for Humans and you want to understand every rule. if you don't understand it or doesn't make sense to you then you will say no.
That's not necessarily true. There are many aspects in life where I need to believe that people around me know what they're doing. There are things that I will never know the answer to because there are limitations to human knowledge.

but the problem is human are not complete and will never be. Modern science? 100 years ago people were far less discerning compared to us and 100 years from now who knows we may look stupid to them. people can't act as god because they are creatures not creator. Modern science is modern atm but some years from now its old, not modern and maybe proven wrong.
God isn't complete either, obviously.

Why do you think we have gone away from slavery? Is it because we're being sinful or is it because, maybe, not everything written in holy scripture is appropriate and absolute across different lands and across different times?

If you believe Christianity is corrupted as opposed to Islam then surely you must also believe that God made a mistake somewhere down the line. Was he unable to foresee the consequences when he let Jesus roam the land?

You are also underestimating previous scientists. We had scientists before Muhammad's time who proposed ideas that were first accepted many centuries, some millennia, after their debut. Thales of Miletus, Lucretius, Anaximander, Leucippus, Aristarchus, Democritus, Philolaus, Eratosthenes, Hipparchus, Ptolemy and Crates of Mallus. Take a look at their theories and see just how sophisticated they were.

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Post by RealGunner Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:02 pm

This isn't a Thread on religion. You guys should take the discussion over to the God Thread

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Post by BeautifulGame Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:05 pm

90% of these poeple who indulge in these probably didnt even watch or understood the youtube video.So its a sick excuse saying the You tube is the main harm for these killings.

And how many of these moderate Muslim leaders have publically criticized these killings?
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Post by TalkingReckless Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:41 pm

BeautifulGame wrote:90% of these poeple who indulge in these probably didnt even watch or understood the youtube video.So its a sick excuse saying the You tube is the main harm for these killings.

And how many of these moderate Muslim leaders have publically criticized these killings?
I am sorry i hear that BS about moderate muslims not criticizing this or that all the time...
just because you don't hear it from your media doesn't mean they didn't...

The Media's job is to make money and putting up apologies or criticism isn't gonna make them money, saying people doing bad things will
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Post by Cruijf Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:56 pm

BeautifulGame wrote:90% of these poeple who indulge in these probably didnt even watch or understood the youtube video.So its a sick excuse saying the You tube is the main harm for these killings.

And how many of these moderate Muslim leaders have publically criticized these killings?

Many, but the one I want to stress the most is Mohamed Morsi, the president of Egypt and leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, because of the insults and accusations that have been thrown at him (In this forum as much as in the media) for being an 'extremist.'
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Post by RedOranje Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:38 pm

I would refer people back to the CNN article link I posted earlier in the thread. For those that line in the US or other western nations it will offer some insight into the Middle Eastern mindset and why they are boycotting at the Embassies. For those that live in Eastern/Middle Eastern nations it may help you get an idea of what some of us are trying to say when we talk about freedom of speech.

What the people that are protesting (for the most part, obviously no statement applies to everyone) fail to understand is that the US government cannot, by it's very founding document, censor or stop the production of videos in the nature of the one causing the problems. The US government and even the vast (probably greater than 97%) of the US people do not agree with what the video suggests and detest it and it's creator just as Muslims do, especially those Muslims living in the US. However, the creator did not need permission from anyone to make his video nor did anyone know about it until it was already released and on the internet (at which point, there's really no stopping it).
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Post by II Capitano Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:37 am

Wish more people were as open-minded. Great video.

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Post by Swanhends Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:10 am

RedOranje spreading dat knowledge
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Post by FennecFox7 Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:39 pm

che wrote:http://www.timesofisrael.com/iranian-film-depicts-jews-as-money-hungry-arab-killers/

hmm

Your really going to take press from isreal seriously? They kill Palestinians for fun :facepalm:
Oh but jews haven't done anything. Are you serious? Get out of your hole. Isrealis live in an extreme theocracy and you make this assumption Laughing
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Post by Swanhends Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:15 am

Giggity5313 wrote:
che wrote:http://www.timesofisrael.com/iranian-film-depicts-jews-as-money-hungry-arab-killers/

hmm

Your really going to take press from isreal seriously? They kill Palestinians for fun :facepalm:
Oh but jews haven't done anything. Are you serious? Get out of your hole. Isrealis live in an extreme theocracy and you make this assumption Laughing

What assumption is he making? There's no assumption. An Iranian film depicted Jews as money hungry Arab killers. That's a factual statement not an assumption.

Also no one said Israel or Jewish people are blameless or don't ever do anything wrong, but Che's point was that there aren't any Jews ransacking and looting embassies, rioting violently, and killing people as a result of some stupid video, just as there aren't any Hindu's or Buddhist's or Christians doing any of that in response to that picture in The Onion...
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Post by shinigami99 Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:27 am

Holy shit this guy :O




I agree with the whole freedom of speech thing. Who really cares if you get offended. You have that right. But don't protest it with violence. Still a big generalization though, but still the majority of muslims were offended, and to them he says, f**k you.

Just to clarify, I don't think EVERYTHING he says is true. He does go over the top with his criticism.
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Post by Potential Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:20 am

Most suicide bombers are Muslim
According to the Oxford University sociologist Diego Gambetta, editor of Making Sense of Suicide Missions, a comprehensive history of this troubling yet topical phenomenon, while suicide missions are not always religiously motivated, when religion is involved, it is always Muslim. Why is this? Why is Islam the only religion that motivates its followers to commit suicide missions?

The surprising answer from the evolutionary psychological perspective is that Muslim suicide bombing may have nothing to do with Islam or the Koran (except for two lines in it). It may have nothing to do with the religion, politics, the culture, the race, the ethnicity, the language, or the region. As with everything else from this perspective, it may have a lot to do with sex, or, in this case, the absence of sex.

What distinguishes Islam from other major religions is that it tolerates polygyny. By allowing some men to monopolize all women and altogether excluding many men from reproductive opportunities, polygyny creates shortages of available women. If 50 percent of men have two wives each, then the other 50 percent don't get any wives at all.

So polygyny increases competitive pressure on men, especially young men of low status. It therefore increases the likelihood that young men resort to violent means to gain access to mates. By doing so, they have little to lose and much to gain compared with men who already have wives. Across all societies, polygyny makes men violent, increasing crimes such as murder and rape, even after controlling for such obvious factors as economic development, economic inequality, population density, the level of democracy, and political factors in the region.

‹ previous next ›

I don't think I copied it all but it explains why mostly eastern Muslims who are in Muslims countries are violent in opposed to western Muslims...

Thoughts?
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Post by RealGunner Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:47 am

Muslims turn into suicide bombers because they can't get laid Laughing seems legit

Polygyny makes men violent, increasing crimes such as murder and rape

Do you want me to compare the stats of Rape victims and murders in USA compared to UAE + Saudi + Oman (cumulative figure since usa is massive) ?
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Post by che Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:34 am

until law enforcement in uae and saudi arabia starts considering marital rape and domestic violence as crimes, all your precious rape stats are completely useless... just because something happens behind closed doors and not on the street doesn't mean it's ok... and at least rape victims in usa don't get stoned for adultery

and yea, muslims turn to suicide bombing because they can't get laid is a very simplistic expression but it's close to the truth... teenagers are forced to stay celibate and taught to hate women, including those in their own family (source: hitchens)... this frustration is in direct contrast with basic biological urges, and these piles of hormones are then directed to a rage against other people... add the vision of going to paradise and you have a pretty decent motivation for someone who's been brainwashed for years
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Post by Senor Penguin Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:51 am

I doubt Saudi Arabia and UAE have a bureaucratic infrastructure that is even close to that of the US. I'd really like to know what their methodology is and what capacity they have.

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:14 pm

Potential wrote:
Most suicide bombers are Muslim
According to the Oxford University sociologist Diego Gambetta, editor of Making Sense of Suicide Missions, a comprehensive history of this troubling yet topical phenomenon, while suicide missions are not always religiously motivated, when religion is involved, it is always Muslim. Why is this? Why is Islam the only religion that motivates its followers to commit suicide missions?

The surprising answer from the evolutionary psychological perspective is that Muslim suicide bombing may have nothing to do with Islam or the Koran (except for two lines in it). It may have nothing to do with the religion, politics, the culture, the race, the ethnicity, the language, or the region. As with everything else from this perspective, it may have a lot to do with sex, or, in this case, the absence of sex.

What distinguishes Islam from other major religions is that it tolerates polygyny. By allowing some men to monopolize all women and altogether excluding many men from reproductive opportunities, polygyny creates shortages of available women. If 50 percent of men have two wives each, then the other 50 percent don't get any wives at all.

So polygyny increases competitive pressure on men, especially young men of low status. It therefore increases the likelihood that young men resort to violent means to gain access to mates. By doing so, they have little to lose and much to gain compared with men who already have wives. Across all societies, polygyny makes men violent, increasing crimes such as murder and rape, even after controlling for such obvious factors as economic development, economic inequality, population density, the level of democracy, and political factors in the region.

‹ previous next ›

I don't think I copied it all but it explains why mostly eastern Muslims who are in Muslims countries are violent in opposed to western Muslims...

Thoughts?

Whats the stats for polygamy in arab world?
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Post by zizzle Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:51 pm

not as popular as you might expect, it's something only the rich can afford to do and then again not all rich men do that. During my 20 years in lebanon i've only seen 3 or 4 men with more than one wife but i think it might be more popular in other areas.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:53 pm

che wrote:until law enforcement in uae and saudi arabia starts considering marital rape and domestic violence as crimes, all your precious rape stats are completely useless... just because something happens behind closed doors and not on the street doesn't mean it's ok... and at least rape victims in usa don't get stoned for adultery

So how can you even compare them two incidents in the first place ? you are acting like domestic violence never happens in United States. The stats will just increase for the former as well.


and yea, muslims turn to suicide bombing because they can't get laid is a very simplistic expression but it's close to the truth... teenagers are forced to stay celibate and taught to hate women, including those in their own family (source: hitchens)... this frustration is in direct contrast with basic biological urges, and these piles of hormones are then directed to a rage against other people... add the vision of going to paradise and you have a pretty decent motivation for someone who's been brainwashed for years

None of that is backed with any evidence. Hitchens isn't a source because he is a known Anti-theist and as biased as they get against religions. Teenagers taught to hate women ? how does that even make sense when according to you they are desperate to get laid. lol. Most of that sounds like a b rated fiction novel.

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Post by Potential Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:14 pm

Its the only explanation put forward, the only other explanations that explains the obvious gap between the eastern and western Muslims are that the eastern's take the quran too seriously while the western don't; combined with the quran being a violent book but I don't think that's true (or at least to the most of it)
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Post by 7amood11 Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:17 pm

Lmao teenagers taught to hate women has to be the silliest and most misguided thing I've read. I've lived all of my teen years in the middle east and I've never heard that BS a single time. It's easy to make stuff up about places you've never been to though Laughing
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Post by RealGunner Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:30 pm

Potential wrote:Its the only explanation put forward, the only other explanations that explains the obvious gap between the eastern and western Muslims are that the eastern's take the quran too seriously while the western don't; combined with the quran being a violent book but I don't think that's true (or at least to the most of it)

There is nothing about suicide bombing, hating on women, raping, domestic violence in Quran. Nowhere near it.

The only reason why Eastern Muslims get misguided is because of the corrupt people who are in charge of the tribe who take money from higher powers just to run "schools" where you are told West is the hell and should be get rid.

Those people fake their identity and represent themselves as Muslim Teachers while they have no connection to the religion itself. This is basically what happens in tribal areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan and similar places.

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Post by che Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:38 pm

proportionately-wise, not nearly as much... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_domestic_violence it's a wiki link but read the references, this one in particular

plus women in the west get more protection from the general society, the whole "stoning for adultery" thing...



basic biological urges vs years of denying them by people in positions of power, not exactly rocket science

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/17/worlddispatch.egypt



The "proven" medical effects of masturbation - which, of course, include damage to the eyesight - were once listed by Abd al-Aziz bin Baz, the late Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, and his list is reproduced on numerous Islamic websites. According to bin Baz, masturbation causes disruption of the digestive system, inflammation of the testicles, damage to the spine ("the place from which sperm originates"), and "trembling and instability in some parts of the body like the feet". In addition, there is a weakening of the "cerebral glands" leading to decreased intellect and even "mental disorders and insanity". Furthermore, "due to constant ejaculation, the sperm no more remains thick and dense as it normally occurs in males". This results in sperm which is not "mighty enough" to make a woman pregnant or produces children who are "more prone to disease and illness".


as for "hating women", it's a phrase ffs... say you're an extremist who wants to create as many "martyrs" from pre-teen boys as possible... for that you'd have to make them angry, for which denying sexual relief is the simplest tool... now, you've banned jacking off so you're all good there, so you must also prevent them from getting acquainted with women so you can direct all their hormonal rage towards the jews or the christians or whatever... again, not rocket science [/quote]
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Post by zizzle Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:09 pm

Potential wrote:Its the only explanation put forward, the only other explanations that explains the obvious gap between the eastern and western Muslims are that the eastern's take the quran too seriously while the western don't; combined with the quran being a violent book but I don't think that's true (or at least to the most of it)


rofl rofl

dude you're not in a position to be judgemental about other people's religion seeing how your holy book preaches war and cruelty and tells you to wipe out the Canaanites (a holy commandment that is still in progress). And the fact that you're a citizen of the most racist and violent state in modern history deosnt help your case.
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Post by Potential Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:48 pm

zizzle wrote:
Potential wrote:Its the only explanation put forward, the only other explanations that explains the obvious gap between the eastern and western Muslims are that the eastern's take the quran too seriously while the western don't; combined with the quran being a violent book but I don't think that's true (or at least to the most of it)


rofl rofl

dude you're not in a position to be judgemental about other people's religion seeing how your holy book preaches war and cruelty and tells you to wipe out the Canaanites (a holy commandment that is still in progress). And the fact that you're a citizen of the most racist and violent state in modern history deosnt help your case.

rofl

You don't know anything about me judging by that post, I don't blame you.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:52 pm

I clicked on edit in che's post instead of quote :facepalm:


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