Catalan independence process

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Post by vicentec Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:33 am


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Post by harhar11 Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:43 pm

@free_cat wrote:It can give an extra morale boost on the other side.
It will happen though. I'll probably be there with my starred catalan flag.

It can, but wouldnt that be mostly to the catalans who wants independence? Because I dont think its such a important matter for the foreigner/Spaniards/Catalans who dont want independence?

And also, isnt there a chance that the opposite might happend as well? I mean, wasnt Villa pretty "patriotic"? Isnt there a chance that he can get depressed?

I am certain that some of the tension that had disappeared last season will return if/when they make that chant and this time, IMO, it will be the fans fault unlike last time when ALOT of it was down to Mou..

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Post by CBarca Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:06 pm

Who cares about tension? This is about Catalan independence, nobody is going to get sad by chants. I doubt the players pay much attention to them.

Keep us updated Free, and thanks!
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Post by free_cat Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Camp Nou massively chanted "independence" at the minute 17:14 of both halves (1714 was the year catalonia lost its independence).

TV didn't show the stands! Here a video although with poor quality. All the yellow dots, are independentist flags:



It was also a very emotive moment before the match started, when the fans chanted Barça's hymn a capella and made a whole-stadium mosaic with the catalan flag:



Some more images:
Catalan independence process - Page 3 2012_10_7_vfYEY7X2CRLdgzsBDnz0s6

Catalan independence process - Page 3 71071
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Post by windkick Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:07 am

LOVE IT. The Acapella was so emotional
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Post by harhar11 Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:42 am

@CBarca wrote:Who cares about tension? This is about Catalan independence, nobody is going to get sad by chants. I doubt the players pay much attention to them.

Keep us updated Free, and thanks!

So you want it to go back to the way it was 2 seasons ago? Thankfully it didnt happend but I still think that they should do like they did the 11th september if they want independence, protest on the street rather than in a football game...

And player do pay attention to them hence why some say that fans are the 12th player...

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Post by eelir Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:58 am

I get the point of separating the politics and sport. But this just wont happen with Barca. Barca's stadium was the only place that people could publicly shout in Catalan even when the language was banned from public use in Spain. It is a symbol of Catalan nationalism, the only Catalan place that could not been locked or teared down by the oppressive Franco regime. So it will be always directly or indirectly, related with such political movements.
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Post by free_cat Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:38 pm

Well said eelir.

Another picture and video with better quality, so you can see the magnitude of the protest that took place in the Camp Nou:

Catalan independence process - Page 3 75721_10151081762171762_2099931245_n


Yes, all the yellow dots are starred flags!
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Post by danyjr Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:01 pm

Mare meva, so many senyeras! Never seen anything like that. Did the club give them for free or they brought the flags from home?
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:56 am

No, people brought them from home. The club provided the cardboards to make the mosaic at the begining of the match, but not the estelades (notice that almost all of them are estelades, not senyeres).
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Post by danyjr Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:03 pm

Just realised that picture is taken from 'Gol Sud' section. That's where all boixois nois and the die-hard seperatists sit. Still, quite remarkable. Never seen Camp Nou like that.

PS: My bad, estelada indeed.
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:13 pm

No boixos nois in the stadium. In the Gol Sud there's the almogavers, that indeed are independentists, but all the stadium was more or less the same.
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Post by harhar11 Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:34 am

@eelir wrote:I get the point of separating the politics and sport. But this just wont happen with Barca. Barca's stadium was the only place that people could publicly shout in Catalan even when the language was banned from public use in Spain. It is a symbol of Catalan nationalism, the only Catalan place that could not been locked or teared down by the oppressive Franco regime. So it will be always directly or indirectly, related with such political movements.

But thats not the same thing as taking stand on the independence "battle".

Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt barca made/became early on as a way to protect catalan culture and tradition but had not opinion in the matter of independence? The club could just leave it at that and then the staff/players who are independista could march/protest for independence but just as themself and not as the club?

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Post by free_cat Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:41 pm

The club is starying neutral. Notice that the mosaic was a catalan flag, not an independentist flag. Also, Rosell went to the demonstration as an individual, not representing Barça.

I'd like the Club to take stand in favour of independence 100%, but I feel that the position they are doing is quite good, navegating between the majority of catalans, and especially Barça fans and socis, that want the independence, and those who don't want.
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Post by harhar11 Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:51 pm

I had no problem with Rosell going to the demonstration because, as you said, he went as himself and didnt represent Barça. I like how the club has handled the situation so far. I just dont like the people, and in this case the independistas, who are trying to politicize a game of football, something that even Pique who is a independista said..

In other news, it is rumoured that those moron a.k.a Ultra sur will go to Barcelona tomorrow for the anti independista celebration/march to hunt the "putos catalufos" :facepalm:

http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/politica/ultrasur-caza-barcelona-2223608

If it is true, then the only thing that would do would help the cause for the independence..

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Post by CBarca Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:12 pm

@harhar11 wrote:
@CBarca wrote:Who cares about tension? This is about Catalan independence, nobody is going to get sad by chants. I doubt the players pay much attention to them.

Keep us updated Free, and thanks!

So you want it to go back to the way it was 2 seasons ago? Thankfully it didnt happend but I still think that they should do like they did the 11th september if they want independence, protest on the street rather than in a football game...

And player do pay attention to them hence why some say that fans are the 12th player...

If you can tell, this last Clasico was fine despite all the things Free_Cat is showing us.

It has little effect on the Clasico, the chants and all, in terms of 'tension' or whatever.
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Post by BarcaKizz Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:40 am

Disagree Free. The club shouldn't get more involved than it already is. Camp Nou is already a cauldron for expression and Barca a very strong symbol of Catalunya. No need for the club to start saying "we want independence". I think everyone who matters knows the club is pro-Catalan, no need to spell it out for them and get too involved in politics.

This being said, the club should support people's expression, just not take an official stance.
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Post by free_cat Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:08 pm

The club is formed by it's socis and it's supporters, and they are showing to be majoritarily independentist. So the club can take a stance according to the big majority of their socis and members, and I would like it to do it. I'm ok with how they are behaving though.

On other notes, today is Spanish national day (they celebrate the discovering of America and the later genocide of native americans :facepalm: ) and there was an anti-independentist demonstration in Barcelona. According to the police, only 2.000 people turned up to the demonstration that was held in Plaça Catalunya. They didn't even have to cut the traffic around Pl. Catalunya. And at least a couple of hundred of these 2.000 people came from othe parts of Spain (buses from Malaga, Madrid, Valencia and Aragon). Ridiculous Very Happy

So, there are 1.000.000 people willing to demonstrate for independence of Catlaunya and 2.000 people willing to demonstrate against.
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Post by free_cat Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:10 pm

@harhar11 wrote:I had no problem with Rosell going to the demonstration because, as you said, he went as himself and didnt represent Barça. I like how the club has handled the situation so far. I just dont like the people, and in this case the independistas, who are trying to politicize a game of football, something that even Pique who is a independista said..

In other news, it is rumoured that those moron a.k.a Ultra sur will go to Barcelona tomorrow for the anti independista celebration/march to hunt the "putos catalufos" :facepalm:

http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/politica/ultrasur-caza-barcelona-2223608

If it is true, then the only thing that would do would help the cause for the independence..

No one tried to politize the game. It was a fooball game and people in the stands chanted in favour of independence twice. Nothing was said along the lines "win this match for independence" or mottos that would politize the mathc. It was just a lot of people taking advantadge of a big concentration to keep the spark of the independence movement alive.
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Post by free_cat Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:02 pm

Catalan independence process - Page 3 E5iqko

Some pictures comparing the two demonstrations. What a difference hahaha! And the demonstration for independence could have 10 more pictures like those.
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Post by harhar11 Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:44 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@harhar11 wrote:I had no problem with Rosell going to the demonstration because, as you said, he went as himself and didnt represent Barça. I like how the club has handled the situation so far. I just dont like the people, and in this case the independistas, who are trying to politicize a game of football, something that even Pique who is a independista said..

In other news, it is rumoured that those moron a.k.a Ultra sur will go to Barcelona tomorrow for the anti independista celebration/march to hunt the "putos catalufos" :facepalm:

http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/politica/ultrasur-caza-barcelona-2223608

If it is true, then the only thing that would do would help the cause for the independence..

No one tried to politize the game. It was a fooball game and people in the stands chanted in favour of independence twice. Nothing was said along the lines "win this match for independence" or mottos that would politize the mathc. It was just a lot of people taking advantadge of a big concentration to keep the spark of the independence movement alive.

I would say that this video had some political message..



...

This is pretty disgusting behaviour by some hooligans...


That video is why I dont want politics to get involved with sport. Some football fans are violent enough already without the need of politics.

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Post by free_cat Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:59 pm

I already said, it was a political act in a sports stadium. But it wasn't a political act trying to "politize" sport IMO. Anyway, I'm getting fed up to discuss this with you.

I don't see you complaining about the infinite examples of sport politization, like the Olympic games, or about any non football flag in a stadium (fascist flags in Bernabeu, irish flags at Celtic, british flags at Rangers and a long etc.), or singing the national anthem before sports game, and a long etc. So you either start complaining about every single act of politization of sport, or you stop complaining about some barça fans politizing Barça.

I don't support any kind of violence, but the first person that hits someone in that video is the spanish parent.
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Post by harhar11 Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:01 pm

@free_cat wrote:Catalan independence process - Page 3 E5iqko

Some pictures comparing the two demonstrations. What a difference hahaha! And the demonstration for independence could have 10 more pictures like those.

tbf mate, wouldnt the guys who wants independence have a bigger need to go to the demonstration?

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Post by free_cat Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:03 pm

Hahahaha, in the demonstration for Spain's unity a guy went on the scenario to break a catalan independentist flag, and they thought he was an independentist and beat him!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_vh5aDyBZo

Idiots.

(Notice the guy with a franquist flag).
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Post by harhar11 Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:08 pm

@free_cat wrote:I already said, it was a political act in a sports stadium. But it wasn't a political act trying to "politize" sport IMO. Anyway, I'm getting fed up to discuss this with you.

I don't see you complaining about the infinite examples of sport politization, like the Olympic games, or about any non football flag in a stadium (fascist flags in Bernabeu, irish flags at Celtic, british flags at Rangers and a long etc.), or singing the national anthem before sports game, and a long etc. So you either start complaining about every single act of politization of sport, or you stop complaining about some barça fans politizing Barça.

I don't support any kind of violence, but the first person that hits someone in that video is the spanish parent.

You do know that I generally call the Ultra sur for neo nazi? I would say that shows my dislike for them and the reason why I dont say anything about the celtic-ranger games is because I dont watch/never talk about Scottish football...

--

And I didnt say that it was the independentistas who started the fight, all I said was that I thought that it was some hooligan behaviour and why I dont like to mix politics and football...

@free_cat wrote:Hahahaha, in the demonstration for Spain's unity a guy went on the scenario to break a catalan independentist flag, and they thought he was an independentist and beat him!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_vh5aDyBZo

Idiots.

(Notice the guy with a franquist flag).

Another example of how stupid, irrational and violent people turn because of politics...

and another one...

Ultima hora: Un grupos de individuos de la brigada blanquiazul dan una paliza a un chico por llevar una camiseta de la seleccion catalana
Fuente:La sexta noticias


Last edited by harhar11 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by free_cat Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:14 pm

@harhar11 wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Catalan independence process - Page 3 E5iqko

Some pictures comparing the two demonstrations. What a difference hahaha! And the demonstration for independence could have 10 more pictures like those.

tbf mate, wouldnt the guys who wants independence have a bigger need to go to the demonstration?

Maybe, but that doesn't matter.
What we, catalan democrats, ask is simple: let the people decide. Make a referendum and count the votes and act accordingly.
What they, spanish nationalist, want it'hs the opposite: don't let people decide.

Three acts of violence, all of them started by spanish nationalists.
I never saw that coming. :coffee:
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