Is Real Madrid Attempting To Mirror Xaviesta ?

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Post by free_cat Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:37 am

I don't think Ozil, Sahin and Alonso will make a good midfield. Ozil struggles under pressure, and likes to give the final pass a lot. If he plays deeper, he can lose many balls and cause problems. It also looks a very soft midfield, I don't see Mou playing it. And Sahin and Alonso don't seem as so great defensive to cut all the counters.

Also, it would be wrong to bench Di Maria, who has been outstanding, for Ozil on the wings.

One thing is for sure, they will all be benched for Pepe, Alonso and Khedira when Madrid plays Barça.

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Post by Guest Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:16 pm

@free_cat wrote:I don't think Ozil, Sahin and Alonso will make a good midfield. Ozil struggles under pressure, and likes to give the final pass a lot. If he plays deeper, he can lose many balls and cause problems. It also looks a very soft midfield, I don't see Mou playing it. And Sahin and Alonso don't seem as so great defensive to cut all the counters.

Also, it would be wrong to bench Di Maria, who has been outstanding, for Ozil on the wings.

One thing is for sure, they will all be benched for Pepe, Alonso and Khedira when Madrid plays Barça.

Ozil will never be in the midfield. In a 4-3-3, It would be Khedira-Alonso-Sahin midfield with Ozil-Ronaldo-Di Maria (if CR7 plays CF) or Ozil-CF-Ronaldo.

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Post by FennecFox7 Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:39 pm

Khedira will be in the line up, he has to be. free_cat highlighted my reason right there in the last post. Xabi alonso and sahin aren't good defensively at all, and a 4-3-3 requires alot of running from the bottom CM/CDM
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Post by messixaviesta Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:08 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:how do you know it will fail? i have a different opinion.

nick, I have a question for you. Suppose you were given an open ended wallet and could buy as many players as you want no matter what the cost from anywhere except for Barcelona but were required to create a team which would play open attacking possession football against the toughest of opposition including Barcelona never using more than one DM no matter what, which players would you purchase?

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Post by buddytaller Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:07 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
LOL@ Mou buying young talents and cheap experienced heads are Chelsea at Inter.

He rarely bought youngsters and the experienced players might of been low transfer cost due to circumstances but the wages were enormous.



Barcelona is supposed to be made up of home - grown talents but its average wage bill is the highest in all team sports! But that is not the point at Chelsea he brought in many young talents contrary to popular perception, Michael Essien was 22 when he was signed from Lyon, Robben was 20 when he was signed from PSV, Mikel Obi was 19 when he was signed from Lyn Oslo and Wright-Phillips was 23. They all looked pretty young to me!

And yes he always targets experienced players who are not in hot demand a classic example is Lucio, who was deemed surplus to requirements at Bayern but regained his world class reputation under Mourinho after he was bought for cheap.
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Post by Albiceleste Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:05 pm

@buddytaller wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
LOL@ Mou buying young talents and cheap experienced heads are Chelsea at Inter.

He rarely bought youngsters and the experienced players might of been low transfer cost due to circumstances but the wages were enormous.



Barcelona is supposed to be made up of home - grown talents but its average wage bill is the highest in all team sports! But that is not the point at Chelsea he brought in many young talents contrary to popular perception, Michael Essien was 22 when he was signed from Lyon, Robben was 20 when he was signed from PSV, Mikel Obi was 19 when he was signed from Lyn Oslo and Wright-Phillips was 23. They all looked pretty young to me!

And yes he always targets experienced players who are not in hot demand a classic example is Lucio, who was deemed surplus to requirements at Bayern but regained his world class reputation under Mourinho after he was bought for cheap.
The best players in the world are not cheap, wage wise, atleast we don't have to spend 100 million euros on one player to get second best.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:20 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:how do you know it will fail? i have a different opinion.

nick, I have a question for you. Suppose you were given an open ended wallet and could buy as many players as you want no matter what the cost from anywhere except for Barcelona but were required to create a team which would play open attacking possession football against the toughest of opposition including Barcelona never using more than one DM no matter what, which players would you purchase?

This is a very difficult question to answer to be honest. I'm split between looking for players that have done well against barca and tuning my real madrid team to my liking.

First off, I have to say that, in my opinion, Barcelona beats team by design, more than they do just having a good squad of players. What i mean is that barcelona has specialized in something 99% of teams on the planet arent good at, which is the play in short and closed space, and having a squad of highly technical players that can hold on to the ball and carry it or their own.

There is never one answer on how to beat a team because no one can predict that hercules will beat you with their tactics, and a counter can so easily end up with the ball in your nets. I would say tho that you fight fire with fire in this case, dont try to put water it.

So by design, any team that is proficient at keeping the ball and filled with technically gifted players and good passers, has a huge chance at beating you. I actually think that with more quality players, Villarreal and Valencia would beat you more often, because the design is right, but the players are lacking. The trickiest thing about playing barcelona is holding on to the ball when you win it, because you will win the ball, but the trick is not to lose it immediately after. Your players arent robots, if you make them chase the ball long enough they will back off like any body, which means you need to work on the one touch football and such.

That's why i will use Villarreal as a template.
----------Neuer
Lham-Silva-Hummels-Coentrao
----Banega-Cambiasso
------Silva---Cazorla
-----Aguero--Rossi

Nothing fancy per say, but i think they would give you an awful lot of troubles. I did it like that off the top of my head, i avoided using RM players ofc.
-Neuer, self explanatory
-Both Fullbacks are very energetic, specially Coentrao and he would have no problem running back and forth.i can swap Zanetti for Lham ofc but he is a better athlete i think. Faster and quicker to react to your wingers, as Coentrao. you wont be able to outpace them.
-Both CBs are proficient at reading the game and limit the through balls, size and athleticism with great quality on the pass. they wont have problems passing the ball around from the back, or trying to beat the high line from deep.
-deep midfield is made up of good ball handler, specially Banega, who is fantastic on the ball and will be able to create that extra second of possession and keep it going. Cambiasso is the only real DM, but he is also a good passer and read the game well.
-Att midfield, is mobile and proficient technically. both have great vision, i can find some other players to fit in there.
-Attack is mobile as well and can occupy wide positions. Every player is great on the ball and can hold possession. They are good enough to create their own chances as well.

The whole mix makes them good enough to build up attacks from the back, but also by design this is a good formation to apply pressure zones and try to win the ball quickly. There are players like Banega i could replace with Wilshere because he has higher work rate, same with Silva etc...



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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:14 am

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
This is a very difficult question to answer to be honest. I'm split between looking for players that have done well against barca and tuning my real madrid team to my liking.

First off, I have to say that, in my opinion, Barcelona beats team by design, more than they do just having a good squad of players. What i mean is that barcelona has specialized in something 99% of teams on the planet arent good at, which is the play in short and closed space, and having a squad of highly technical players that can hold on to the ball and carry it or their own.

There is never one answer on how to beat a team because no one can predict that hercules will beat you with their tactics, and a counter can so easily end up with the ball in your nets. I would say tho that you fight fire with fire in this case, dont try to put water it.

So by design, any team that is proficient at keeping the ball and filled with technically gifted players and good passers, has a huge chance at beating you. I actually think that with more quality players, Villarreal and Valencia would beat you more often, because the design is right, but the players are lacking. The trickiest thing about playing barcelona is holding on to the ball when you win it, because you will win the ball, but the trick is not to lose it immediately after. Your players arent robots, if you make them chase the ball long enough they will back off like any body, which means you need to work on the one touch football and such.

That's why i will use Villarreal as a template.
----------Neuer
Lham-Silva-Hummels-Coentrao
----Banega-Cambiasso
------Silva---Cazorla
-----Aguero--Rossi

Nothing fancy per say, but i think they would give you an awful lot of troubles. I did it like that off the top of my head, i avoided using RM players ofc.
-Neuer, self explanatory
-Both Fullbacks are very energetic, specially Coentrao and he would have no problem running back and forth.i can swap Zanetti for Lham ofc but he is a better athlete i think. Faster and quicker to react to your wingers, as Coentrao. you wont be able to outpace them.
-Both CBs are proficient at reading the game and limit the through balls, size and athleticism with great quality on the pass. they wont have problems passing the ball around from the back, or trying to beat the high line from deep.
-deep midfield is made up of good ball handler, specially Banega, who is fantastic on the ball and will be able to create that extra second of possession and keep it going. Cambiasso is the only real DM, but he is also a good passer and read the game well.
-Att midfield, is mobile and proficient technically. both have great vision, i can find some other players to fit in there.
-Attack is mobile as well and can occupy wide positions. Every player is great on the ball and can hold possession. They are good enough to create their own chances as well.

The whole mix makes them good enough to build up attacks from the back, but also by design this is a good formation to apply pressure zones and try to win the ball quickly. There are players like Banega i could replace with Wilshere because he has higher work rate, same with Silva etc...

Thanks nick. I have to say that was a very fascinating reply to read. I wish we could actually get to play that very team team that you have created. It would be great to watch for more reasons than one.

Also your post brings me to another unrelated point. This looks so much like how we can structure the present Argentina team. Put Pastore in place of Cazorla, Messi in place of D.Silva and Lavezzi/Tevez in place of G.Rossi. So how much have we gained or lost? We have not really decreased the possession qualities and have also added the peerless excellence of Messi. The only huge problem is that our defense is so much poorer than the one you have used. Neither is our goal keeper anywhere near as great. So we can't dare to play like this and must drop Pastore and use Mascherano for the double DM pivot. Once we do that the fluency and dynamism in the team is somewhat lost. This is where I feel the biggest conundrum lies and the Copa America will give us a fair indication of how far we have been able to address issues towards becoming a truly top class team.

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