Israel to attack Iran?

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Post by Mamad Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:04 pm

All this because of stable democracy? yeah right......

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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:12 pm

@che wrote:usa supports israel because it's the only stable democracy in the region... not exactly rocket science (pun not intended)

oh?

Lebanon were given the 2nd highest Democracy Index score in the middle east After Israel(7.53 compared to 5.98). I don't see USA supporting them?, Neither do i remember them Protecting Lebanon against Israel during the July war in 2006.

Also if USA loves their Democratic countries. Suppose Israel goes to war with Russia, China, All of the middle east and Africa. Will USA really jump in just because Israel are the "only" Democratic country in the middle east ?


I have no clue why America Supports Israel to this much extend. Maybe Red/Senor would like to shed some light. However to say it's just because it's a stable democracy. That is a weak argument







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Post by che Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:09 pm

lebanon has the second highest democracy score because there's no other democracy within a 1000km radius... well except turkey but that's not really considered part of middle east

Israel to attack Iran? - Page 2 Democracy_Index_2011_red_and_green

rankings only available to economist subscribers but on this map lebanon is the same colour as ukraine and venezuela... dat democracy Israel to attack Iran? - Page 2 DatAss%20Emoticon
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:26 pm

That's encouraging though. They could be red or black Razz

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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:22 pm

@che wrote:usa supports israel because it's the only stable democracy in the region... not exactly rocket science (pun not intended)

This.

Also, when you say that Jews run the US, you have to start looking at the Religions present in congress, big business etc. and you'll come to the conclusion Protestants run the US.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:28 pm

if two of you are saying it (along with red i would assume ) then that must be the reason.
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Post by RedOranje Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:43 pm

Protestants have ALWAYS been the vast majority in US government. Hell, there was a time when even a Catholic couldn't hope to be President, much less a person of Jewish faith.

The idea that there's some massive conspiratorial shadow cabinet controlling the US government/world gives far too much credit to peoples' ability to keep secrets.
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Post by Guest Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:45 pm

Actually I was quite often told in the Army by fairly highly ranked American individuals that Israel was the only country who were willing to work and support American interests within the region. Not just for show or business reasons like alot of other countries in the area.

Israel is often the outcast in the middle east and so it is mutually beneficial for the two to support each other.

America gets a real ally in the region and Israel gets technology and weapons and backing from a super power in an unstable region in which it has few allies, if any at all.




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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:54 pm

Israel is geostrategically, politically, economically, and socially a Western country, that's why the US and Europe will always have their back: equal rights, democracy, stable capitalism, and they let us station our troops and aircraft there.

That's why we're always with Israel and Turkey (who do much the same) - got nothing to do with zionist conspiracies, they just share the West's values, and they're as much hypocrites about it as the West is.

I'm not saying it's perfect, or even a good thing, it's just that there's no need for a Jewish conspiracy for the West to want to support Israel.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:35 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:Israel is geostrategically, politically, economically, and socially a Western country, that's why the US and Europe will always have their back: equal rights, democracy, stable capitalism, and they let us station our troops and aircraft there.

Europe doesn't back Israel. That's generalisation. Can't speak for Germany but few examples i can give you is that Sweden really dislikes Israel, and for the UK, Our relationship with Israel isn't that good either since the Doron Almog case back in 2005 and then Mahmoud al-Mabhouh case in 2010 left us with bitter relationship

A passage from the book: "Europe and Israel: what went wrong" by Dimitris Keridis

"Europe is fully aware of its secondary political role in the Middle East
and it understands its contribution in support of, and not in
competition with, U.S. efforts. Europe will never be a credible
interlocutor for the Israelis nor does it have the necessary resources to
lead. But Europe does play a significant and probably unmatched role
in one important respect. The E.U. is the largest non-military donor in
the area, especially to the Palestinians. For all the present frustration
caused by the destruction of E.U.-funded Palestinian infrastructure,
Brussels is expected to make a very substantive contribution in
support of the viability of a future solution including a Palestinian
state. Europe has a long and quite successful record in
democratization, starting with Southern Europe in the 1970s and
extending all the way to East-Central Europe in the 1990s. If
Washington is truly committed to “regime change” in Iraq and
elsewhere in the Middle East as a way to stabilize the region, it has a
lot to learn and gain from collaborating with the Europeans. Europe’s
current engagement in Turkey should not be underestimated. A
successful, democratic, and ultimately European Turkey at peace with
itself and all its neighbors will have a tremendous positive impact on
the whole of the Middle East, Turkic Asia, and the Muslim world,
setting a powerful example for all would-be modernizers. "
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Post by zizzle Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:41 pm

so how's the US relationship with israel more valuable than that they have with say the Saudi's ?


and dont give be that crap about democracy. What did the US goverment do when a DEMOCRATIC elections sent Hamas into power ? thats right..
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Post by Mamad Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:55 pm

Saudi Arabia is the most not democratic country in the world lol. A fat ass king and his sons rule the country like gods..... as for human rights for example women can't even drive there for gods sake.

but they are US's friends and there is no concern about human rights.

US doesn't give a s**t about human rights nor about democracy. they supported Saddam, Mobarak and many dictators for a long time but they want democracy for Iran, Syria etc....

its all about their benefits and no i don't think they support Israel because this country is democratic. that's ridiculous.
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Post by zizzle Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:33 pm

its really annoying that enlighted people like Viva stil buy into that democracy crap when the examples that refute it are countless
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:38 pm

The US is allied with Israel because its a long term sustainable democracy with western mores which provides us with an influence and mobility in an important region where we have no real friends
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Post by spanky Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:47 pm

i read an interview with one of the rothschild guys a few weeks ago if i ever find it again ill post it here. anyways in the interview he openly admits to zionists helping out israel financially or in any other way.

and btw are some of u really denying that the major banks and television channels in the world are not under jewish ownership?
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Post by zizzle Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:52 pm

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:The US is allied with Israel because it provides us with an influence and mobility in an important region where we have no real friends

it's closer to the truth this way
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Post by Senor Penguin Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:06 pm

Europe & the US should be backing Israel insofar that secular and democratic values are encouraged in the country and that the country keeps negotiating appropriately with neighboring countries. These kinds of values ought to be encouraged everywhere in the region.

When it comes to Israeli settlements the rhetoric has to become sharper because it's unacceptable what they're doing. A two-state solution needs to be encouraged and pushed for because the Palestinians have done nothing wrong and Israel continues its wrongdoing.

That Israel scores better when it comes to democracy is because they have done well to isolate themselves from the region. It's an advantage for Israel to be 'Jewish', to be the enemy and outcasts of the region. The rest of the region is being polluted by fascists. Just take the Syrian Social Nationalist Party as an example.

And don't take me wrong: Israel has its fascists and the way they act towards the Palestinians is fascist in nature but towards their own population it's not nearly as bad as it is elsewhere in the region.

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Post by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:02 am

I thought this was relevant







Obama has many enemies in ME
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Post by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:41 am

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:I thought this was relevant



Obama has many enemies in ME

Congratulations on attempting to spin this along party lines. :facepalm:
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:50 am

@RedOranje wrote:
@Yuri Yukuv wrote:I thought this was relevant



Obama has many enemies in ME

Congratulations on attempting to spin this along party lines. :facepalm:

I support Obama's plan in ME. Im just afraid that extremists in the US, Israel and the Arab world wont stand for it.

Im not going to talk about campaign here, but just to remind you I am not a republican and after I saw Obamas tax proposal for corporates I might sway other way on October 3rd.
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Post by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:53 am

Says the poster with Romney in both his signature and avatar, who added a completely unnecessary (partisan) sentence into his last post.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:05 am

@RedOranje wrote:Says the poster with Romney in both his signature and avatar, who added a completely unnecessary (partisan) sentence into his last post.

Okay RO, I will change my avi to Biden if it irks you
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Post by Cruijf Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:36 pm

@Mamad wrote:
US doesn't give a s**t about human rights nor about democracy. they supported Saddam, Mobarak and many dictators for a long time but they want democracy for Iran, Syria etc....

its all about their benefits and no i don't think they support Israel because this country is democratic. that's ridiculous.

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Post by Nishankly Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:26 pm

@Jack Daniels wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:WW3 will happen some day. It's just the build up really
Yes and It will start with China blowing my country to the ground.

And the nothern part of my country.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:47 pm

Why ?
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Post by RedOranje Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:52 pm

Nah, if China starts something it will be over/with Taiwan and/or Japan. Anything else will come after.
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