How good is lionel messi?

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Post by billionmillion Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:39 am

Pls stop bringing Barcelona's style of play to downplay messi's skills. Messi is passing machine for Argentina



nobody even can make some of his through balls. example his assist to di maria against portugal

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Post by billionmillion Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:49 am

look at this genius. beside accuracy and timing he read the play before anyone. yeah and di maria is barcelona player
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Post by Valkyrja Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:20 pm

Messi isn't a better passer than Ozil, and you talk about him being a better passer than Diego Maradona ?
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Post by Donuts Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:58 pm

Kizu wrote:Messi isn't a better passer than Ozil, and you talk about him being a better passer than Diego Maradona ?
Have you ever watched Maradona play or are you only saying that because Maradona's name i very largely known and considered the best player because of his goalscoring ability and dribbling which somehow means hes the best passer too.
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Post by Valkyrja Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:27 pm

Donuts wrote:
Kizu wrote:Messi isn't a better passer than Ozil, and you talk about him being a better passer than Diego Maradona ?
Have you ever watched Maradona play or are you only saying that because Maradona's name i very largely known and considered the best player because of his goalscoring ability and dribbling which somehow means hes the best passer too.

I've seen some footage of him, and some matches from the 86WC. From what I've seen(not very much but...) he was on a different level from Messi, in terms of passing.
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:00 pm

jiopsi wrote: Well you can see the rules from previous link, so yes. Again assuming things, not creative passing, but being creative in general.

Id say those assists were fortune not creativity. If we talk about passes, to a players own teammates, that set up goals, in the world cup, messi has 2 in 8 games, a ratio of 1/4, or to put as a decimal 0.25 to maradonas 0.42. Added to this m10s ratio is tested over more games where he played past his peak and half injured. Its tough to keep a ratio up over your whole career, so lets wait and see how messi manages
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Post by Harmonica Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:24 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Id say those assists were fortune not creativity. If we talk about passes, to a players own teammates, that set up goals, in the world cup, messi has 2 in 8 games, a ratio of 1/4, or to put as a decimal 0.25 to maradonas 0.42. Added to this m10s ratio is tested over more games where he played past his peak and half injured. Its tough to keep a ratio up over your whole career, so lets wait and see how messi manages
Well of course you would say, I wasn't expecting anything else.

Now lets compare meant assists in CA, Maradona 1 in 12 games, Messi 4 in 10 games. And this without even playing in Argentina, and having stronger connection for the national team from the start, and having yet to even reach his peak with Argentina.
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Post by jibers Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:28 pm

To billion million alll messiss through balls are the same, run at defenders and do variations of passes to the on running wide player (fb or if).

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Post by Harmonica Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:40 pm

Jibers, what kind of "other" throughballs are there?
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Post by billionmillion Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:06 pm

What does it mean same? messi does all kind of through balls. just he does so many times that you are bored and call it same


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Post by DuringTheWar Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:53 pm

jiopsi wrote:Well of course you would say, I wasn't expecting anything else..

What, that in a discussion about passing i would focus on passing? including shots and a pass that didnt even get to his own teammate to misrepresent it in messis favour is also exactly what i'd expect of you as well

jiopsi wrote:Now lets compare meant assists in CA, Maradona 1 in 12 games, Messi 4 in 10 games. And this without even playing in Argentina, and having stronger connection for the national team from the start, and having yet to even reach his peak with Argentina.

I dont know what conclusion you can actually draw from this without going into far more detail than that
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Post by Harmonica Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:18 am

Another day another passing master class:

Spoiler:
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Post by Alex10 Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:38 am

He is the best player since Maradona retired in terms of ability IMO. Breathtaking,awesome. In dribbling I think he's better then Diego(faster,better acceleration,better agility and keeps the ball closer then anybody when in motion) Diego was better in technique(best ever) and creativity. He played in a tough era facing all time greats and being influential to a team like Napoli and Argentina. Better player then Diego? No. He needs to prove it with Argentina. And yes I know stats wise he's among the best already. But he plays in La Liga, which I find anything but impressive(there's only 2 teams playing). And today's football is so weak even compared to what it was at the beginning of the 2000's. I remember teams like Galata,Depor,, Valencia,Lazio etc. who were more then capable of upsetting odds. With that saying he's an all time great, but he needs to do something big with Argentina to be in the Pele,Maradona,Cruyff,Di Stefano,Platini etc. bold. About his passing. He's great at it and has excellent vision, but in the space friendly La Liga and with Barcelona who are masters at widening team's defenses it's not like it's unbelievable. Diego did those too but even more he was a master at the long ball, and pulled tricky passes too, like heel deflections, rabonas, scissor kicks and amazingly he did it every match with great accuracy and with very little time and space.

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Post by Harmonica Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:24 pm

Another day...

Spoiler:
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Post by DuringTheWar Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:04 am

Perhaps you should make a thread in the multimedia section to post your clips of messi week in week out, if thats what you want to do?

I wouldnt be opposed to such a thread and it would be worth looking at now and then, but please this is/was a discussion thread, if you have nothing to say then p*** off please instead of bumping the thread
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Post by Harmonica Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:19 am

I think it's perfectly fine to show the side of Messi that people haven't seen looking through the youtube goal videos, I think it's actually part of this discussion, and which many seem to ignore. It shows the consistency which he creates goal scoring situations, and it is just unparalleled. The Fabregas goal is just hilarious proof of how intimidating Messi is, and how much teams concentrate on him. Besides, they are in spoiler tags so you don't have to watch them if you so choose.
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Post by Donuts Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:02 am

His gif's are showing how good Lionel Messi is by example in video which is actually better then verbally that can be twisted, plus he is trying to prove his point that Messi is a top passer.
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Post by Mamad Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:19 pm

He is the best player on the pitch every single time. even in his bad day he is better than everyone.

he is a complete package. finishing, dribbling, passing, shooting..... and his body stamina is amazing.

scoring and assisting and most importantly performing like a goat for about 4-5 consecutive years and he is still 25.

I haven't seen Pele, Maradona, Cruyff or old greats. were they like this?
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Post by The Franchise Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:13 pm

Mamad wrote:

I haven't seen Pele, Maradona, Cruyff or old greats. were they like this?

The short answer is yes. Maradona and Cruyff didnt quite score as much, Pele didnt create quite as much but basically yes.

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Post by alexjanosik Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:51 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Mamad wrote:

I haven't seen Pele, Maradona, Cruyff or old greats. were they like this?

The short answer is yes. Maradona and Cruyff didnt quite score as much, Pele didnt create quite as much but basically yes.


Therein lies the uniqueness of Messi.Its also why I believe him to be the most lethal player ever.Dont think anyone has been as relentless,lethal,productive and creative and most importantly consistently so as Messi has been.
Dont think he is quite the GOAT yet but every passing season he inches closer.

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Post by The Franchise Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:46 pm

Yeah I would agree with that. Dont know about the best, but nobody has been this creative, this involved in games and scores to this degree all at the same time. Normally an great player excells in one of these areas, a legendary player maybe two...but all 3...And on that unmatched consistency, ruthlessness and productivity......
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Post by Harmonica Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:23 am

Different team, same goals, dribbles, passes

Spoiler:

Argentina finally starting to look like a team, which only means bad news for the rest.
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Post by Harmonica Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:20 am

So now that he does the same things in Argentina, what next?

Spoiler:
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:23 am

Sometimes I look at videos of Maradona and I think that Messi hasn't reached his level in some aspects.



The mental speed and technique that Maradona shows when returning passes with one touch is just fantastic, and the way Maradona engineers to make some other passes is very creative. Not making a judgement of who is better because I think in the end balance Messi wins, but clearly he's not better at everything.
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Post by The Franchise Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:11 pm

I guess your talking about :53, :58, 2:03 and 2:22?

The first two, I think he had a reasonable amount of time on the ball to do those things. I dont think it required super quickness of thought.

2;03 is straight sick, crazy, end of discussion.

2;22 was good, but I could see Messi being able to do that.
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Post by Valkyrja Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:30 pm

Wait 20-25 years, I'll bump this thread. Laughing
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