Do Bayern Munich and the German NT lack a winner's mentality?

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Do Bayern Munich and the German NT lack a winner's mentality? Empty Do Bayern Munich and the German NT lack a winner's mentality?

Post by The Don Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:40 am

I think about 7/11 of the German NT's starting 11 are from Bayern, right?

What I've noticed is that not one of the Germany team's 23 squad players have ever won the Champions League, World Cup or Euro. None.

Now, back to Germany and Bayern Munich, I have noticed that there are A LOT of bronze and silver medals here.

2006 - 3rd place behind Italy and France
2008 - 2nd to Spain
2010 - 2nd to Inter, 3rd behind Spain and Holland
2011 - 2nd to Dortmund
2012 - 2nd to Chelsea in Europe, 2nd to Dortmund at home.

I should perhaps point out again that the bulk of Germany's starting line up come from Bayern Munich and always have.

Of course you could fairly argue that the Bayern players won the Bundesliga many times. But I believe that in terms of quality and difficulty to win, the Bundesliga is only the 4th league. Although these last 2 years they'd been owned, frankly, by Dortmund in any case, including a humiliating 5-2 Cup Final loss.

Do the current crop of German and Bayern players lack winning mentality?
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Post by jibers Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:50 am

The Don wrote:I think about 7/11 of the German NT's starting 11 are from Bayern, right?

What I've noticed is that not one of the Germany team's 23 squad players have ever won the Champions League, World Cup or Euro. None.

Now, back to Germany and Bayern Munich, I have noticed that there are A LOT of bronze and silver medals here.

2006 - 3rd place behind Italy and France
2008 - 2nd to Spain
2010 - 2nd to Inter, 3rd behind Spain and Holland
2011 - 2nd to Dortmund
2012 - 2nd to Chelsea in Europe, 2nd to Dortmund at home.

I should perhaps point out again that the bulk of Germany's starting line up come from Bayern Munich and always have.

Of course you could fairly argue that the Bayern players won the Bundesliga many times. But I believe that in terms of quality and difficulty to win, the Bundesliga is only the 4th league. Although these last 2 years they'd been owned, frankly, by Dortmund in any case, including a humiliating 5-2 Cup Final loss.

Do the current crop of German and Bayern players lack winning mentality?

Yes, especially since a bulk of Germans players come from Never Munchen
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Post by stunt Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:51 am

Finishing second makes you hungry for first. I doubt they lack any kind of mentality. The german are known to be the best mentality-wise. There's a reason they hardly ever lose in penalties right?

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Post by jibers Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:57 am

stunt wrote:Finishing second makes you hungry for first. I doubt they lack any kind of mentality. The german are known to be the best mentality-wise. There's a reason they hardly ever lose in penalties right?

Bayern were second best at everything, Germany have been falling short for alost a decade. It's lack of winnning mentality. Did Bastian not miss a pen against chelsea?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:00 am

I think part of the problem is Loew. He plays great football until a challenge comes along, and then tries a far more conservative approach that completely backfires. He was the one that organized the tactics in 2006 and that's what he did, and he repeated the mistake in 2010. Hopefully he will have learned from it, otherwise Germany should get Kloppo.
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Post by Valkyrja Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:31 am

They have Godzil :coffee:
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:41 am

I don't think it's a mentality problem. Until 2010 we simply lacked the quality to beat really tough opponents, and when we did beat tough opponents, we did it through our mentality.

I half-agree with BC as well, the conservative approach against Spain in 2010 killed us, IMHO we could have beaten them at their own game, and even if we didn't, our chances would've still been better than they were when we conceded possession and hoped for the best.

And Bayern... I wouldn't really call that a mentality problem as much as plain bad luck (last UCL final) combined with just not having the best coach (Kloppo is far superior).
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Post by rwo power Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:44 am

The Don wrote:2006 - 3rd place behind Italy and France
2008 - 2nd to Spain
2010 - 2nd to Inter, 3rd behind Spain and Holland
2011 - 2nd to Dortmund
2012 - 2nd to Chelsea in Europe, 2nd to Dortmund at home.
Club results aside, I bet most NTs would kill to be practically constantly in the top 3 (you forgot 2nd to Brazil in 2002) for a decade. (I'll put the mantle of silence over 2004 Razz)
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Post by S Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:48 am

But when you're up there in the Top 2,Top 3 you should be winning otherwise it wont hold any significance at all :coffee:

I rather win a WC and get kicked out of Group Stages in the subsequent WC than finishing 2nd or 3rd in consecutive WC's and end up winning nothing at all in that period.But thats just me.Just providing an instance.
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Post by Babun Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:04 am

hmm
Most of the time, German NT lacked genuine quality to overcome better sides. The current crop has got no excuses though. In 2006, we weren't better than France or Italy quality wise. In top matches, the team with better quality wins 9/10 times.
Poor trolling attempt leemius and a subsequent perma ban for multi-accounting eco smile
Watch Germany expose how shabby Juve would fare in CL vs. a team like Bayern or Real Madrid ( German NT).
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Post by S32TABLANCA Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:37 pm

Yeah, clearly Bayern's loser mentality has infected the German NT. There are plenty more options I feel Loew could be considering in various positions.
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Post by urbaNRoots Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:56 pm

Nevermind lol


Last edited by urbaNRoots on Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:29 pm

Immortal Babun wrote:hmm
Most of the time, German NT lacked genuine quality to overcome better sides. The current crop has got no excuses though. In 2006, we weren't better than France or Italy quality wise. In top matches, the team with better quality wins 9/10 times.
Poor trolling attempt leemius and a subsequent perma ban for multi-accounting eco smile
Watch Germany expose how shabby Juve would fare in CL vs. a team like Bayern or Real Madrid ( German NT).

I agree with this, people haven't paid enough attention to our actual squads, IMHO, to notice how much better and deeper we are on paper than we were in 2006, 2008, and even 2010, especially our 2008 team was horrible, that was mentality and balls of steel in it's purest form, and zero technique.
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Post by Toffer Harley Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:54 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
I agree with this, people haven't paid enough attention to our actual squads, IMHO, to notice how much better and deeper we are on paper than we were in 2006, 2008, and even 2010, especially our 2008 team was horrible, that was mentality and balls of steel in it's purest form, and zero technique.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:24 pm

Immortal Babun wrote:hmm
Most of the time, German NT lacked genuine quality to overcome better sides. The current crop has got no excuses though. In 2006, we weren't better than France or Italy quality wise. In top matches, the team with better quality wins 9/10 times.
Poor trolling attempt leemius and a subsequent perma ban for multi-accounting eco smile
Watch Germany expose how shabby Juve would fare in CL vs. a team like Bayern or Real Madrid ( German NT).

5 Juve starters most likely in the NT is a reflection on Juventus? Bearing in mind it's also a different formation, different manager and club and international games have proven so often to be different.

OT: I don't think it's a full-blown mentality issue, if they don't win the EUROs it might be something to consider seeing as the quality of the German NT is very high at the momeny.

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Post by BAYERN_MUNICH Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:46 pm

We actually do lack players like Kahn, Ballack or Effenberg who show balls when it's needed.

Our current generation of footballer are all tought to be 'good boys' which isn't the right way imo. But this discussion pops up in german media every half year or so Very Happy

edit: I rate Lahm very high, but he is not a captain and will never be . The right decision would be to make Schweinsteiger captain at Bayern and the german NT , although he is out of form atm. But for this decision it's to late i guess
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:07 pm

So Hummels outshining Badstuber now. smoking Seems Low found the screw to the loose cannon.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:15 pm

BAYERN_MUNICH wrote:We actually do lack players like Kahn, Ballack or Effenberg who show balls when it's needed.

Our current generation of footballer are all tought to be 'good boys' which isn't the right way imo. But this discussion pops up in german media every half year or so Very Happy

edit: I rate Lahm very high, but he is not a captain and will never be . The right decision would be to make Schweinsteiger captain at Bayern and the german NT , although he is out of form atm. But for this decision it's to late i guess

Meh, we didn't win squat with Ballack as well, I don't believe in this "we need a leader"-BS, we have a leader, it's the collective.
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Post by The Messiah Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:29 pm

S32TABLANCA wrote:Yeah, clearly Bayern's loser mentality has infected the German NT. There are plenty more options I feel Loew could be considering in various positions.

The same loser mentality that got you kicked out of the champions league by a far more superior team.

Madrid fans are at it again, haven't you guys got better stuff to do than to throw few jabs at Bayern Munchen because we're superior to Madrid


Madrid haven't won anything until until now, we've played 2 champions league final in 3 years and our team is getting better and better so eventually we'll end up winning it within the next 2 years or so.

and yeah as some people have already pointed out, there are many reasons as to why we didn't win anything for the last 2 years, first being the emergence of Dortmund, which was kind of unexpected and it's obviously even making us a better team and 2nd, losing the champions league to chelsea was pure bad luck and nothing more.


Also we've consistently change coaches for the last 7years or so, I bet that also plays a role, but all in all, Bayern Munchen is still a better club than Madrid and perhaps maybe only Barcelona stands a chance against us.

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Post by S32TABLANCA Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:04 pm

We are Champions, the only thing you won is a treble of losing. Laughing
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Post by The Messiah Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:46 am

S32TABLANCA wrote:We are Champions, the only thing you won is a treble of losing. Laughing

Champions of weak La-Liga, I see you championing us in cpl
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Post by justdoit_ Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:25 pm

Bayern players sucked today.
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Post by jibers Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:28 pm


Germany are a disgrace
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Post by jibers Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:31 pm

If Italy could finsih the scoreline could have been shameful
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Post by The Messiah Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:45 pm

Bayern need to listen to me and think of Playing Boateng-Dante next season, I know what I am saying when I say Badstuber disrupt the defense.

He's difficult to play with, or form a partnership with, Hummels struggle all day because of him, you simply have to look at Hummels partnership with Subotic and Boateng partnership with Van Buyten.

Badstuber will always screw you up when you need him to be in his position or cover for you, he put other player in tremendous pressure and always screw up after hiding for a long time.


Boateng-Dante please.
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