Group B: Netherlands vs Germany discussion

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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 12:59

That's why I asked before I start to make fun of VDV; this just sounds too ridiculous to be true.

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Post by Babun Tue 12 Jun 2012, 13:07

VDV isn't among the 'good' players for Netherlands himself Laughing
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 13:09

I'm really tempted to make fun of how he wouldn't even sit on our bench, but I want to be sure he actually said what the article says he said first, because I don't want to be the douche I want to accuse him of being - capiche? Very Happy
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Post by Kingofeverythingclassy Tue 12 Jun 2012, 13:10

It's too bad how his career has turned out due to his attitude, no hunger & all talk.

For me as a youngster VDV was by far the best among all 46 players in the 2 squads. At 18 odd he was phenomenal & is by far the most talented young CAM I had seen. And now he is Just a Failed Prospect,talent put to no use.

Sad. Sneijder was way less talented. Look at Sneijder's career & look at VDV's career. That is what hunger,hard work & the will to win does.

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Post by urbaNRoots Tue 12 Jun 2012, 15:29

Van der Vaart: "I only count three good players in Germany squad. Özil, Götze and Schweinsteiger."

:facepalm:
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Post by Le Samourai Tue 12 Jun 2012, 15:31

urbaNRoots wrote:Van der Vaart: "I only count three amazing players in Germany squad. Özil, Götze and Schweinsteiger."

:facepalm:

Diction is important.

Still stupid but less so...
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Post by rwo power Tue 12 Jun 2012, 15:35

I wonder if Goal.com found and used this: http://www.voetbalcentraal.nl/nieuws/80202/van-der-vaart-duitsland-heeft-maar-drie-hl-goede-spelers

Hm... That's what Stern made of it: http://www.stern.de/sport/fussball/van-der-vaart-niederlande-fussballerisch-besser-als-deutschland-1839951.html
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Post by Madvillain Tue 12 Jun 2012, 18:44

Yeah, he apparently said those three are outstanding players, that's a far better translation from Dutch sources than what Lol.com did. Not too much wrong with this comment, but I would rather say Neuer and Lahm instead of Götze who is a big talent but needs more good seasons before he should be called among the best of the Germans imo. The real thing he was going for with his remark is confidence in his own teams class.

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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 18:52

I can comfortably make fun of VDV now, because, yes, it's less bad than what goal.com wrote, but still, if we compare it to the Dutch... Let's say we only count the really outstanding, than that's Robben, Sneijder and RVP for the Dutch, with RVP not having looked good against Denmark, and Sneijder having had a bad season.

If we're talking the level those three are at, and the three Germans VDV mentioned are at, then we have to mention Neuer, Lahm, Hummels, Müller, Klose, Kroos, and Reus as well at least, who all belong into the same talent bracket imho. Okay, Müller and Klose on his NT form only, I guess, and Reus being a bit optimistic and assuming he'll bring his BMG form, but still... Neuer, Lahm and Hummels have to stand as well.

So it's still worth making fun of. For once in decades, we even have the better team on paper. And, funnily, the Dutch looked to have better chemistry, and played much better, than we did, in the first match.

Role reversal! Very Happy
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Post by bvb_11 Tue 12 Jun 2012, 19:06

van der Vaart is not the brightest footballer, I'd just ignore his deluded ass.
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Post by Kingofeverythingclassy Tue 12 Jun 2012, 19:31

Neither of Klose,Muller of Kroos belong to the bracket of Robben & Sneijder IMO. That is where Oranje are far superior. Robben,Sneijder were Top 3/5 Players in 2010. There is no one in Germany anywhere near that standard as yet.

I also feel Afellay is better than Muller for example. Now time has gone & Muller's weak skills are getting exposed. He is an intelligent player with a lot of heart but nowhere near the skills of a Robben or a RVP. Muller is a Kuyt type of player IMO.

And IMO Huntelaar is by far the best Pure Goal-Scorer in the world today. If he had this Bayern Munich Midifield he would bang in 96 instead of 48 in a season.

And other than I have already said in terms of depth this is the best German Batch ever probably. Its stacked in almost every position. Its a monster of a team. But they dont have 1 Superstar who can win the game by himself,Oranje have atleast 3.

I am hoping that this BIG players will make a difference because if terms of average or all-round quality Germany are definitely some way ahead

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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 21:30

Robben is a player who offers nothing but goals.
Müller has scored more than Robben in the last couple years of internationals. And offers more as a team player.

And if you're saying that Oranje have "at least 3 superstars who can win the game by themselves", I guess you're talking of Sneijder, Robben, and Huntelaar?
Gomez is just as good as Huntelaar, Özil is better than both of Robben and/or Sneijder, and Schweinsteiger is certainly the best midfielder in both teams (if fit) - I'm not even arguing that Germany is WTFbetter, but this year, in 2012, we won't need superior team play, or chemistry or anything, we simply even have the better individual players on paper.

I know this sounds weird, but this year, it is like that.

Haven't even talked about Klose, Hummels, Badstuber and Lahm in this post yet.
And this season Kroos has already been better than Sneijder, though I'll hand it to you, that it might have been because Inter have sucked, while Bayern had an overall good season.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 21:31

BTW I should really point out again: I'm arguing that VDV is wrong, not that Germany will win this easily I think we will win, but that's because all the factors favor us (NL having to attack, their defence being weak and us being a great countering team, Robben being off form), and we have been the better team over the past two years, but there's a big chance of Holland beating us, and if we win, it will be hard as hell, nowhere like the friendly that we won.
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Post by Madvillain Tue 12 Jun 2012, 21:54

VivaStPauli wrote:I can comfortably make fun of VDV now, because, yes, it's less bad than what goal.com wrote, but still, if we compare it to the Dutch... Let's say we only count the really outstanding, than that's Robben, Sneijder and RVP for the Dutch, with RVP not having looked good against Denmark, and Sneijder having had a bad season.

If we're talking the level those three are at, and the three Germans VDV mentioned are at, then we have to mention Neuer, Lahm, Hummels, Müller, Klose, Kroos, and Reus as well at least, who all belong into the same talent bracket imho. Okay, Müller and Klose on his NT form only, I guess, and Reus being a bit optimistic and assuming he'll bring his BMG form, but still... Neuer, Lahm and Hummels have to stand as well.

So it's still worth making fun of. For once in decades, we even have the better team on paper. And, funnily, the Dutch looked to have better chemistry, and played much better, than we did, in the first match.

Role reversal! Very Happy

You are still reading what you want to read, taking things out of their context. :coffee: Like I said, he's trying to convey confidence in his own team, so your context is just plain wrong. Furthermore, it is his own right to see those players as Germany's best and he's not saying anywhere that the other players are far worse. All he did say was that he thinks your defence isn't awesome, just decent. He's not saying ours is better, just that your's isn't that great. And I agree with that. It's laughable that you are calling over-the-hill-Klose on the same level as Van Persie, Sneijder and Robben. Even if you are trying to put thing in perspective by pointing at his career for Germany, it's bullshit. Klose was once a very good player but he isn't a player like Van Persie or Sneijder ffs, nor are Hummels, Müller, Kroos, and Reus (although some might grow over time and get to that level). I agree that overall Germany has the superior side, but that is mainly due to our defence.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:25

He said "the German players who are very good", or rather "I count three very good [world class] German players", which is obviously less bad than what Goal.com wrote, but still wrong.

He didn't say that those are the 3 best and the others are awesome as well, he said those are the 3 great ones he counts. That's why I'm making fun of him.

My Dutch isn't great, but I think I understand it well enough when I read it.
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Post by Babun Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:43

After tomorrow, Dutch won't matter anyway :coffee:
Pray to your Oranje god that Denmark doesn't win which is very likely eco smile
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:44

We still have to win against the Netherlands first, Babun... :*
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Post by Babun Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:46

VivaStPauli wrote:Robben is a player who offers nothing but goals.
Müller has scored more than Robben in the last couple years of internationals. And offers more as a team player.

And if you're saying that Oranje have "at least 3 superstars who can win the game by themselves", I guess you're talking of Sneijder, Robben, and Huntelaar?
Gomez is just as good as Huntelaar, Özil is better than both of Robben and/or Sneijder, and Schweinsteiger is certainly the best midfielder in both teams (if fit) - I'm not even arguing that Germany is WTFbetter, but this year, in 2012, we won't need superior team play, or chemistry or anything, we simply even have the better individual players on paper.

I know this sounds weird, but this year, it is like that.

Haven't even talked about Klose, Hummels, Badstuber and Lahm in this post yet.
And this season Kroos has already been better than Sneijder, though I'll hand it to you, that it might have been because Inter have sucked, while Bayern had an overall good season.
Robben is an awesome player. He is in Özil category. Snejder is far superior to the likes of Kroos/ piggy. The rest is overrated though.
I don't rate RVP as much as other people do, same with Huntelaar. Overall, their team is vastly inferior quality wise all over the pitch. They don't have Lahm, Neuer, Boateng, a forward who doesn't choke in big occasions ( Klose/ Gomez) and a fit CM pairing ( piggy+Khedira, Van Bomml on his last legs, De Jong doesn't offer anything beside ball winning).
VivaStPauli wrote:We still have to win against the Netherlands first, Babun... :*
They can't even get Chelski lucky. That's how bad their situation is. If they attack, they're screwed ( better defence, better goal difference for Germany in the end). If they PTB they'll concede with the joke of the defence they have.
I don't even see a draw happening.
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Post by Madvillain Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:55

VivaStPauli wrote:He said "the German players who are very good", or rather "I count three very good [world class] German players", which is obviously less bad than what Goal.com wrote, but still wrong.

He didn't say that those are the 3 best and the others are awesome as well, he said those are the 3 great ones he counts. That's why I'm making fun of him.

My Dutch isn't great, but I think I understand it well enough when I read it.

See, you are still doing it. You are blinded by what you want him to say. When someone says this or that team has 3 awesome players, there isn't anything said about the rest. He could mean that the rest is for the most part great, but below the quality of the aforementioned players. But it could also mean that that the rest is average or crap. He mentioned the defence, but he didn't mention anything about the rest. So what you are doing, is filling things in for him and then criticising what you filled in yourself.
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Post by Babun Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:58

On a side note, if Van Flopsie doesn't do anything out of this world tomorrow you could blame him for Euro exit.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:58

I assome he means the rest are "not awesome", I don't think he's stupid enough to think they're not good.

But if you say Schweinsteiger, Özil, Götze - you have to say Neuer, Lahm etc. - is that so controversial of me? :X
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:58

Immortal Babun wrote:
They can't even get Chelski lucky. That's how bad their situation is. If they attack, they're screwed ( better defence, better goal difference for Germany in the end). If they PTB they'll concede with the joke of the defence they have.
I don't even see a draw happening.

See, in theory I agree with you, but that doesn't mean that they can't still outscore us on a good day...
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Post by Babun Tue 12 Jun 2012, 22:59

VivaStPauli wrote:
Immortal Babun wrote:
They can't even get Chelski lucky. That's how bad their situation is. If they attack, they're screwed ( better defence, better goal difference for Germany in the end). If they PTB they'll concede with the joke of the defence they have.
I don't even see a draw happening.

See, in theory I agree with you, but that doesn't mean that they can't still outscore us on a good day...
It's Germany we're talking about :coffee: Germany never loses to a team inferior in quality. It's an unwritten rule because complacency just doesn't happen.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 23:03

We lose to an inferior team all the time, just look at 1966, 1986, 2006, 1994... Group B: Netherlands vs Germany discussion - Page 3 Trolldolski
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 12 Jun 2012, 23:06

On a completely unrelated note: why the shit do the Netherlands get to play all their matches in the same city?
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Post by totaalvoetbal Tue 12 Jun 2012, 23:27

Don't know Viva but they sleep and train in Poland so it doesnt really matter for us Razz
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