poll: who is better right now portugal or italy

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portugal or italy atm

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Post by theaguia Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:40 pm

you re contradicting with your fellow juventino

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Post by Guest Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:40 pm

theaguia wrote:
sciacca wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:BTW curious as to how Portugal, with their amazing defence, let in seven goals...almost the amount of Norway and Denmark combined.

Great point indeed, I wonder how their defense is better than us currently. Stats show it isn't, and once again were better at them in something else. :coffee:

if we had paulo bento from the first qualifier it wouldnt have happened.


Sure, Sure excuses, We didn't have Chiellini due to his injuries as well for some games? And look at our Stats.

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Post by Guest Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:41 pm

theaguia wrote:you re contradicting with your fellow juventino

How on earth am I contradicting myself with him?

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Post by theaguia Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:42 pm

about strikers and playmaking
in your own words
some people need to learn how to read
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Post by Guest Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:43 pm

theaguia wrote:about strikers and playmaking
in your own words
some people need to learn how to read

and some people need to improve their grammar as well... Keep ignoring all the important arguments. :coffee:

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Post by theaguia Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:52 pm

i dont unlike you

i just do not understand why are obessed with grammar like i sadi before english is my third language so is that a problem for you?

my grammar is bad i admit it, i also admit that italy has a far greater history than portugal, i will also admit portugal lost to greece and it is a game we should have won, i will admit our team has dived time to time, i will admit italian stikers make portuguese strikers look amateurs.

but that all does not mean italy is currently better than portugal

ps: fifa think portugal is better than italy
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Post by JuvenelCuore Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:54 pm

theaguia wrote:i dont unlike you

i just do not understand why are obessed with grammar like i sadi before english is my third language so is that a problem for you?

my grammar is bad i admit it, i also admit that italy has a far greater history than portugal, i will also admit portugal lost to greece and it is a game we should have won, i will admit our team has dived time to time, i will admit italian stikers make portuguese strikers look amateurs.

but that all does not mean italy is currently better than portugal

ps: fifa think portugal is better than italy

...that and the standings do.

PS: FIFA also thought it was a good idea to hold the World Cup in the winter.

PPS: Sepp Blatter had the idea of making a super-league full of the best teams in the world not realizing it would kill the rest of football.

PSS: Portugal have a weaker league than Italy, as FIFA says.
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Post by theaguia Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:57 pm

ya and sepp blatter makes the ranking.
ya portguese league is weaker than the italian one true that but porto benfica, braga would give your top teams a run for their money
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Post by Guest Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:59 pm

theaguia wrote:i dont unlike you

i just do not understand why are obessed with grammar like i sadi before english is my third language so is that a problem for you?

my grammar is bad i admit it, i also admit that italy has a far greater history than portugal, i will also admit portugal lost to greece and it is a game we should have won, i will admit our team has dived time to time, i will admit italian stikers make portuguese strikers look amateurs.

but that all does not mean italy is currently better than portugal

ps: fifa think portugal is better than italy

You just said, I can't read, so then, what makes you any better. All I'm saying is you need to improve your grammar lol. English isn't my first language at all. I just said that as a joke by the way...

Fifa Rankings? Who even looks at that? Portugal has been on top of us by one spot.

Italy has went from 16th to 9th in their rankings since August of 2010.

We've been increasing ever since, and Portugal have been declining. You guys only increased once since August.


Last edited by sciacca on Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:01 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by JuvenelCuore Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:00 pm

theaguia wrote:ya and sepp blatter makes the ranking.
ya portguese league is weaker than the italian one true that but porto benfica, braga would give your top teams a run for their money

1/3 of those ending comments involved Sepp Blatter...why don't you address the other two ?

Portugal's league is truly awful. In my honest opinion I wouldn't even rank it top 10.
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Post by Guest Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:03 pm

In fact:

August to October: + 2
October to December: +1
December to March: +1
March to April: +2
March to May: +2

:coffee:

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Post by theaguia Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:20 pm

but still not ahead of portugal and we have been raising as well, i never said italy is a bad team so it is expected they will rise, they are not the world 16th best team they should be higher so the rise isnt something special.

DO YOU WATCH PORTUGUESE FOOTBALL?
we might be a selling league but that doesnt mean the quality is isnt good.
you are thick headed, we are talking about nt's and you talk about leagues,
try to open your mind and sometimes take into acount you are wrong.
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Post by Albiceleste Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:23 pm

oh my goodness, sciacca just obliterated any naysayers, lol

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Post by theaguia Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:35 pm

i dont know how?
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Post by Adit Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:56 pm

portugal by a fair amount,Portugal is Better at every department other than strikers.Italy is shit defensivly.That Ranochiaa guy is a joke of a defender,Chielini is the only one who can hold his Head up in the back four after a match.Pepe is equal to chiellini if not better.Carvalho is miles better than that joke of a CB.Dont let me start on the full backs,bcz italy has bunch of below average fullbacks while portugal have arguabily vest LB and a proven top class RB in Bosingwa.

Italy dont even have wingers to select from,that much they have gone down in quality player production lol.A country who cant field 2 wingers to save their lives.

Nani alone is twice better than any of wingers italy have,dont let me starrt on" CR overated."

Only World class player italy now have is Chiellini,while portugal have Cr7,pepe,carvalho,coentrao,nani all World class players..

Portugal will eat italy alive...
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Post by Lord Hades Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:01 pm

this is just plain stupid.. agreed italy have the better points tally, better squad overally but seriously protugal defence> italy's defence.. rannochia lol...pepe and carvalho are world class. chielleni is worlc class but how many big matches has he been involved in this seasion? midfield agree italy is better

strikers - yeah italy have the better centre forwards but thats only one of them.. portugal have some very dangerous wing forwards.. nani , simao are really explosive.. and cr7> any italian forward
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:33 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:Good God reading this thread was exhausting;

Ok here goes,

@Sciacca; you sir are a quality poster, and with all respect to your Sicilian heritage, toning yourself down a bit would help you get your point across in a more neutral way. Passion is not bad, but too much of it does strike people offensively. I mean no insults, and I am sure you don't as well, but the way you present your argument might be insulting to a lot of people. Again, thanks for your quality posts, just work a little on the Sicilian temper, more Michal than Sonny please.

@JC, please, please read my following post before flaming me. Also, not because you think something is right, that makes it right. Remember what happened to Galileo.

I have no opinion on this debate, but because I like to analyze football, I watched and read assessments on both the NT of Italy and Portugal.

First: this is an analysis of now, 2011, not 2010, not 1009, and 2008. It has nothing to do with the EQualifiers, since Portugal changed coaches.

Second: please read this post and try to understand it, instead of just flaming me for disagreeing.

Third: this is my first venture into a hot thread in this forum, if my rep plummets from this post, i will know how this site works, and will be severely disappointed.

Here goes:

GK: While Buffon just recovered from a long injury, and is not at his heights. He still is classes above Eduardo (maybe not in PKs though). As for the subs, Italy edges PNT with ease.

3:0 (Starter = 2 points, sub =.5 point)

CB: While Chellini is WC, he does not have a WC partner, Rannochia and Bonucci are good, but not WC yet. While his partnership with Bonucci in Juve deserves mention. Also, Bonucci is in doubt. In the othere hand, Pepe despite being a disgrace, is WC. An Caravalho is a veteran. Both played together this year, and both played great.

I think Chellini is individualy better than either of them, but as s team. Pepe and Ricardo edges this. As for the subs. Italy again is better.

(2 for Chellini, and 1 for the subs) (2 for Pepe and 2 for the partnership)
6:4

RB: With Maggio and suitable back ups, Italy comfortably tops PNT in this area. Since PNT does not have a constant or even renowned RB.
(2 for Maggio, 1 for subs)
9:4

LB: a problem position for Italy, while they have good players in Cricito and Balzeratti, neither are spectacular enough, which warrants just a 1 inmo. This however is no problem for PNT, who have Coentro, who has been consitant for the NT, and they also have the subs to back him up.

(1 for having cover) (2 for Coentro and 1 for subs)
10:7

Midfield:
Pirlo and Miereles have had an oppossite season. While Pirlo was class going into the winter break, Raul was not. Afterwards, with Pirlo's injury, and Miereles's rise of form. Raul edges pirlo here. I really like Pirlo, and his undoubted class would still garner him a 1. But we are comparing at the moment, and I can't ignore form.

In the left, Marchisio is underrated as a squad player, and Martinis is not that great IMHO. 2 for italy.

In the right, Montolivo is a solid player, but unspectacular. He never played exceptionally well for the NT and there is no evidence supporting that he will.
Moutinho in the other hand have been amazing for Porto and great for the NT. ANd he has the creativity to trouble any defense. t for PNT.

as for the subs, I say that Italy have more depth the PNT, but the fact that Pepe can slot into midfield easily is great and so can Nani, 2 to italy and 2 to PNT here.

De Rossi is not in the NT for disciplinary reasons, also, he have not been this great this year.
15:13

Forward:

Cassano is overweight and of form, like Pirlo, his talent warrants a 1, but his form denies him a 2.
Rossi is great and hence gets a 2.
Pazzo has never been consistent for the NT and gets no points.
Matri is still not proparly tested and so is Gio. Balo is not included.
Gilardino should give negative points, but that is not how this analysis works.

CR is a definite 2 and so is Nani.
Almeida have been consistent for the NT and hence is a 2.
None of the others get any points from me.

20:19

This is the final result, which proves that Italy is not THAT MUCH GREATER THEN PORTUGAL AND HENCE UNNEEDED BELITTLEMENT IS UNNECESSARY.

Summary: Portugal's lack of goalkeepers is apparent, and is dangerous. The defense of both teams is solid, even if Italy needs to find a stable partner for Chellini. The midfield of Italy can only be better with Pirlo set to regain form. But the fluidity of Portugal's midfield is great. The lack of creativity in the absence of Cassano at the front is worrisome, but the lack of a suitable replacement for Almeida is as well.

Also, this analysis does not take into account a direct match between the two, as tactics can change, and players can push themselves or slack.

Finally, this analysis focuses on the players themselves, and not the chemistry between the team, apart from the CP pairing.

Hope you enjoyed.

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Post by zarola Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:23 am

MY GOD. RANOCCHIA=BAD? PORTUGAL BETTER THAN ITALY IN DEFENSE?

Are you frakking KIDDING ME. This stupidity is driving me frakking insane! Go watch ranocchia vs Germany or vs bayern stop listening to goal.com or basing your opinion on one own goal. How is Portugal's defense better than Italy in anyway possible at all! Portugal have more goals conceded than game's played ffs!
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Post by Lord Spencer Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:45 am

@zarola1; don't insult my argument by impling I only watched one ranocchia match. FYI, I am a Ranocchia fan, but I still think he has much room for improvment. f you think he is the finished article then you are just being biased. As for using euro qualifiers as evidence of PNTs faliure in defense, most of those goals were before their current coach. Also, the way their team plays with a high line, goals are to be expected. Using arguments to support your opinins is welcome and better than just claiming what you think is truth.

I tried to summerize my points breifly, because this a thread about the whole team, not only the defense.
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Post by Adit Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:51 am

zarola wrote:MY GOD. RANOCCHIA=BAD? PORTUGAL BETTER THAN ITALY IN DEFENSE?

Are you frakking KIDDING ME. This stupidity is driving me frakking insane! Go watch ranocchia vs Germany or vs bayern stop listening to goal.com or basing your opinion on one own goal. How is Portugal's defense better than Italy in anyway possible at all! Portugal have more goals conceded than game's played ffs!
believe it or not,ranochiaa is shit ATM,on par with albilol lol.

yes ATM portugal defense is better than italian defense by a fair amount.

Bosingwa is on par with any of the italian RBs,pepe -carvalho pairing is miles above the italian CB pairing .wether it is Chiellini-Bonucci or chiellini-0-Ranochiaa(lol).Coentrao is easily best LB in the world ATM.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:02 am

@Adit, now you are just feeding the deadwood in the argument. I mean really, MILES. If that is true then the PNT wouldn't have any goals conceded.

just keep it real and logical. By being shit, does Ranocchia not deserve to play professional football.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but your opinion would be more listned to if it didn't flame players without proper evidence
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Post by theaguia Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:19 am

thank you for saving the day spencer. excellent post
but a couple of points which i disagree with you
1) in terms of depth i feel portugal has more at cb with alves and rolando
2)silvio or bosingwa(even though not in form atm) i feel offer more then maggio
3) i agree martins is not that good, danny or michael or much better then him but dont get the chance. i regard danny really high he is one the best players in the russian league every year.
4)there also portugals depth in wingers with varela danny(he can play wing too) and quaresma
5)postiga is going better then almeida i feel, almeida's finishing is terrible postiga has been scoring alot recently and playing well for the nt

other than that great post
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Post by theaguia Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:22 am

zarola wrote:MY GOD. RANOCCHIA=BAD? PORTUGAL BETTER THAN ITALY IN DEFENSE?

Are you frakking KIDDING ME. This stupidity is driving me frakking insane! Go watch ranocchia vs Germany or vs bayern stop listening to goal.com or basing your opinion on one own goal. How is Portugal's defense better than Italy in anyway possible at all! Portugal have more goals conceded than game's played ffs!
#dont listen to him ranocchia is a good player, but he is just made to look bad these days as people are exposing his lack of pace, he was great for bari. there is nothing that says a cb is bad if he is slow, look at john terry.

in terms of defence look at spencers argument. we conceeded 5 goals before bento took charge btw. changing coach is makes a difference
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Post by Lord Spencer Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:41 am

theaguia wrote:thank you for saving the day spencer. excellent post
but a couple of points which i disagree with you
1) in terms of depth i feel portugal has more at cb with alves and rolando
2)silvio or bosingwa(even though not in form atm) i feel offer more then maggio
3) i agree martins is not that good, danny or michael or much better then him but dont get the chance. i regard danny really high he is one the best players in the russian league every year.
4)there also portugals depth in wingers with varela danny(he can play wing too) and quaresma
5)postiga is going better then almeida i feel, almeida's finishing is terrible postiga has been scoring alot recently and playing well for the nt

other than that great post

Bravo, this gentlemen is how to debate properly. Points to support your opinions.

As for your points sir,

1)I must confess I am not much familiar with rolando, but from what I seen from alves with the NT. He blows hot and cold. Which is dangerous when he is on his cold days. I think Astori and Bonucci are solid if not spectacular back ups.

2)Maggio is often underrated, and he has been in hot red form this season, take my word for it. I feel Boswinga is often caught out in defense.

3)I guess I should take a look at this Danny guy, if he is as good as you say then it is a bummer he didn't get a moment in the spotlight.

4)Wingers are this side's strength after all.

5)LOL, I was actually meaning to say Postiga, and not Almeida, how did that happen. Alemida sometimes couldn't hit a barn door to save his life. (which is better than Gilardino, who couldn't hit the ball to begin with)
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Post by theaguia Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:47 am

Lord Spencer wrote:
theaguia wrote:thank you for saving the day spencer. excellent post
but a couple of points which i disagree with you
1) in terms of depth i feel portugal has more at cb with alves and rolando
2)silvio or bosingwa(even though not in form atm) i feel offer more then maggio
3) i agree martins is not that good, danny or michael or much better then him but dont get the chance. i regard danny really high he is one the best players in the russian league every year.
4)there also portugals depth in wingers with varela danny(he can play wing too) and quaresma
5)postiga is going better then almeida i feel, almeida's finishing is terrible postiga has been scoring alot recently and playing well for the nt

other than that great post

Bravo, this gentlemen is how to debate properly. Points to support your opinions.

As for your points sir,

1)I must confess I am not much familiar with rolando, but from what I seen from alves with the NT. He blows hot and cold. Which is dangerous when he is on his cold days. I think Astori and Bonucci are solid if not spectacular back ups.

2)Maggio is often underrated, and he has been in hot red form this season, take my word for it. I feel Boswinga is often caught out in defense.

3)I guess I should take a look at this Danny guy, if he is as good as you say then it is a bummer he didn't get a moment in the spotlight.

4)Wingers are this side's strength after all.

5)LOL, I was actually meaning to say Postiga, and not Almeida, how did that happen. Alemida sometimes couldn't hit a barn door to save his life. (which is better than Gilardino, who couldn't hit the ball to begin with)

1)rolando was such a beast this season, roma is begging for him

2) i admit bosingwa is caught out alot and i guess i have not watched that much maggio but silvio had a specacular season and atletico want to buy him at 12 mil he plays lb too and there is joao perrieira who is a solid player.

3) danny is really quite the player in my opinion he raped manu, then he got injured and his 20 mil transfer to chelsea got cancelled

4) it is true i was just stating the fact that we so much depth there

5)thank god, i was like wtf?
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Post by Guest Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:30 am

diptiman wrote:this is just plain stupid.. agreed italy have the better points tally, better squad overally but seriously protugal defence> italy's defence.. rannochia lol...pepe and carvalho are world class. chielleni is worlc class but how many big matches has he been involved in this seasion? midfield agree italy is better

strikers - yeah italy have the better centre forwards but thats only one of them.. portugal have some very dangerous wing forwards.. nani , simao are really explosive.. and cr7> any italian forward

Adit wrote:
zarola wrote:MY GOD. RANOCCHIA=BAD? PORTUGAL BETTER THAN ITALY IN DEFENSE?

Are you frakking KIDDING ME. This stupidity is driving me frakking insane! Go watch ranocchia vs Germany or vs bayern stop listening to goal.com or basing your opinion on one own goal. How is Portugal's defense better than Italy in anyway possible at all! Portugal have more goals conceded than game's played ffs!
believe it or not,ranochiaa is shit ATM,on par with albilol lol.

yes ATM portugal defense is better than italian defense by a fair amount.


Bosingwa is on par with any of the italian RBs,pepe -carvalho pairing is miles above the italian CB pairing .wether it is Chiellini-Bonucci or chiellini-0-Ranochiaa(lol).Coentrao is easily best LB in the world ATM.

poll: who is better right now portugal or italy - Page 2 A

Italy - 1 goal conceded
Portugal - 7 goals conceded

LMAO, Nice defense boys.

Um hello? This whole qualifiers we only conceded one goal and Portugal how many? Just goes to show how good their defense is eh? Sorry boys but your false.


Last edited by sciacca on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:33 am; edited 1 time in total

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