Last Chance Saloon at Euro 2012?

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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:31 pm

I like Klose too, but Ronaldo has had a better career, then Klose. Ronaldo deserves this record not, because he's a better person just a better footballer.

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Post by RedOranje Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:37 pm

Deserves? The person who ends up scoring the most goals deserves the record, whether that ends up being Ronaldo, Klose, or Emile bloody Heskey. Don't talk about who "deserves" it.

It all comes down to who we WANT to hold the record. I personally would like to see Klose break it; you obviously want it to stand. That's personal preference and it will not ultimately affect who holds the record in August of 2014. The person who holds it then, though, is the one who deserves it, no matter how you or I feel about that player.
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Post by Tifoso Romanista Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:42 pm

Van bommel hmm

scratch I read something about Ronaldo9 been given steroid early in his career , i cant be certain but thats what i read about his doping at PSV .

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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:44 pm

Well then I guess I want Ronaldo to keep his record.
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Post by Kingofeverythingclassy Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:54 pm

RedOranje wrote:van Bommel is 35. He's almost definitely not going to be a key Dutch player at 37, even with the family connection. This is compounded by the fact the Dutch have Nigel de Jong and Strootman ready to step into his place/role, so phasing him out after the tournament won't leave a gaping hole in the side (from the footballing side, anyway; leadership is a different matter).

If Clasie & Anita after having the season they had are not called,then I dont see any hope.

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Post by RedOranje Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:56 pm

Please stop being melodramatic.
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Post by Kingofeverythingclassy Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:59 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
Rebaño Sagrado wrote:
RedOranje wrote:I really, really hope Klose makes it to the 2014 WC... I want to see him break the goalscoring record.

Why?

I think Ronaldo deserves it more then Klose

On what grounds? Being fat and running riot through minnows?
At least Klose is humble and respectful.

(I'm obviously a victim of pro-German bias, but even if I wasn't German, I'd pick the humble Klose over superstar Ronaldo any day TBH, I hate the pedestral flair players get put on. Not that R9 wasn't one of the best strikers ever, I just think that doesn't entitle you to anything.)

Scoring 2 goals against germany in wc final is not against minnows while 5 against saudi arabia are definitely against minnows.


klose breaking it wont be bad but given their matches 2 goals & club record I know who I want to see hold the record. Which is why I dont want Klose to break Gerd Muller's record as their number of matches played says it all

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Post by Arquitecto Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:01 pm

I would like to make a point on the level of competition scored against along with the goals scored within each world cup, regarding the record.

2002 WC: Klose scored a hatrick against Saudi Arabia, 1 goal against Cameroon and 1 against Ireland

I forgot to mention, that he did not score a single goal afterwards despite Germany reaching the final

2006 WC: 2 against Costa Rica, 2 against Ecuador and once against Argentina as the latter goal against Argentina, is his only goal past the group stages so far.


2010 WC: This time a marked improvement, 1 against Australia in the GS, 1 against england ending 4-1 for Germany, and 2 against Maradona's Argentina ending 4-0.


1. 16 June 1998 Stade de la Beaujoire, Nantes, France Morocco 1 – 0 3–0 1998 Group stage
2. 27 June 1998 Parc des Princes, Paris, France Chile 3 – 0 4–1 1998 Round of 16
3. 27 June 1998 Parc des Princes, Paris, France Chile 4 – 1 4–1 1998 Round of 16
4. 7 July 1998 Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France Netherlands 1 – 0 1–1 1998 Semi-final
5. 3 June 2002 Munsu Cup Stadium, Ulsan, Korea Republic Turkey 1 – 1 2–1 2002 Group stage
6. 8 June 2002 Jeju World Cup Stadium, Seogwipo, Korea Republic China PR 4 – 0 4–0 2002 Group stage
7. 13 June 2002 Suwon World Cup Stadium, Suwon, Korea Republic Costa Rica 0 – 1 2–5 2002 Group stage
8. 13 June 2002 Suwon World Cup Stadium, Suwon, Korea Republic Costa Rica 0 – 2 2–5 2002 Group stage
9. 17 June 2002 Kobe Wing Stadium, Kobe, Japan Belgium 2 – 0 2–0 2002 Round of 16
10. 26 June 2002 Saitama Stadium, Saitama, Japan Turkey 1 – 0 1–0 2002 Semi-final
11. 30 June 2002 International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama, Japan Germany 0 – 1 0–2 2002 Final
12. 30 June 2002 International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama, Japan Germany 0 – 2 0–2 2002 Final
13. 22 June 2006 Westfalenstadion, Dortmund, Germany Japan 1 – 1 1–4 2006 Group stage
14. 22 June 2006 Westfalenstadion, Dortmund, Germany Japan 1 – 4 1–4 2006 Group stage
15. 27 June 2006 Westfalenstadion, Dortmund, Germany Ghana 1 – 0 3–0 2006 Round of 16



Here is Ronaldo's list for his world cup goals in which there is arguably more tougher competition faced along with the sheer importance of the goals, the latter having far more gravity than Klose's goals which do not compare in importance.


Thus, in terms of deserving, Ronaldo deserves it for me everyday, any day. Without a doubt.

That being said, I still rate Klose higher than Gomez as he should without a doubt start over him.
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Post by RedOranje Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:04 pm

Let's be clear on this once and for all: The player that holds the record 'deserves' it. As of now that's Ronaldo; in 2014 it could be whoever.

This ISN'T a thread about the record though, nor even about the World Cup, so please keep the discussion on topic.
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Post by Kingofeverythingclassy Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:04 pm

RedOranje wrote:Please stop being melodramatic.
\

There is no melodrama in here. Anita was the Mainstay in Ajax winning the title. He was amazing.

And Clasie,I have said it he can bench any CM right now atleast for 1 half. He is the next big Ducth superstar. He took a relegation threatened Bankrupt Feyenoord which sold their best players to 2nd Position.

He is that damn Good. And it is weird to see him not being called up for the training camp while Maduro was & Mark is starting. Clasie was voted 2nd Best player in Eredivisie behind vertonghen by many rankings

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Post by RedOranje Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Both are very young. Neither has the type of leadership qualities, nor the experience that van Bommel does with such high stakes matches. van Bommel played this past season at AC Milan, a highly regarded and prestigious club. Whereas as Ajax (in recent times) and Feyenoord (in general) are not so much. It's no surprise that van Bommel was picked for the Euros given these factors, and very little chance that it has anything significant to do with nepotism. Further, to claim that there is no hope for those promising young players to make the squad for a tournament 2 years from now based on the selection of a 35yo who's club career is obviously on the wane for a tournament now is, by definition, melodrama.
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Post by Kingofeverythingclassy Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:25 pm

RedOranje wrote:Both are very young. Neither has the type of leadership qualities, nor the experience that van Bommel does with such high stakes matches. van Bommel played this past season at AC Milan, a highly regarded and prestigious club. Whereas as Ajax (in recent times) and Feyenoord (in general) are not so much. It's no surprise that van Bommel was picked for the Euros given these factors, and very little chance that it has anything significant to do with nepotism. Further, to claim that there is no hope for those promising young players to make the squad for a tournament 2 years from now based on the selection of a 35yo who's club career is obviously on the wane for a tournament now is, by definition, melodrama.

What are Strootman's credentials?? He was playing 2nd Div 2 years ago when he was put in the Brazil friendly he played 1 year 1st Div for a mid table club named Utrechet.

Apart from that Clasie & Anita have been better than Strootman this season. I find it surprising that Maduro was called up for the Training camp as CM/CM but not Clasie after the season he had.

If this season cant guarantee Clasie atleast a proper chance then I dont know what will.

And wasnt this situation very identical in 2010 as well. Mark was 33 & everyone thought that he would retire. Look back now after 2 years. He is going to PSV & I think he has 2 year contract & will play with Strootman there & for sure he will want to play then.


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Post by Guiltybystander Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:02 pm

Anita and Clasie clearly deserved to be there, and it is stupidity of Van Marwijk to leave them home. Can't say I am displeased though, I care much more about Ajax than the NT and rather not have Anita sold after the Euros.
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Post by samcooke1991 Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:05 pm

As I said in the blog Van Bommel should be pretty damn important , he's still captain but dont see him carrying on to the world cup. Strootman will replace him as key central midfielder within the next year.

And on the subject of Kuyt - he's just signed for Fenerbache which seems to more than hint that his career is near its end.
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