Lionel Messi
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Re: Lionel Messi
Vapotrini wrote:eelir wrote:
I did not see Maradona play, so i steered out of this converstaion, but saying Messi is not 50% of Maradona is pure bias.
And you should have kept out from that line alone. Besides that though, that's based on what, other people's decisions?
It all depends on your definition of skillful. From where I'm sitting, Messi is not all that skillful, he's just extremely effective. He has the unique attribute of having the ball glued to his laces. If he didn't have that though, how effective would he be? Think about it. He'd be very good but not GREAT!
That's where those guys differ. They both had that to a degree, but no one more so than Messi. However, that's his end game....that's it. Where the other's are concerned, that's just a single aspect of their game. They brought way more to the table than that...
So let me say again, if you think Messi is even close to Diego skill wise, sorry, but you're sorely mistaken. At 50 years old while coaching and catching kicks, Diego was hitting free kicks better than the ENTIRE WC squad. If that doesn't clue you in, nothing will.
Don't worry, 20 years from now people will dismiss Messi in the same way, and then you'll understand.
Dude as i said, not saying he is better or worse. What i can say about Maradona, is what i have seen mainly in clips on youtube, his highlights, best moments, so i cant judge him based on that.
But saying the only thing Messi has is his effectivnes as he is able to glue a ball to the shoe is... (well i see now you might be much older the I so I will not say what I intended). Messi has almost all from what I have seen Maradona does, minus maybe weaker distance shot and leader spirit and charisma. But, ont the other end, he looks quicker (to me at least) and yes, more efficient. More efficient is what everyone wants at the end of the day, right???
And if Messi did not have the ball glued to his feet, he still would be a monster finisher, a great passer, awesome vision, superb through ball player, excellent work rate, one of the quickest players out there... should i continue????
So, in my humble opinion they are pretty much equal, one might be better than the other, but i am in no condition to judge that, but I think i know that much of football as to say that they are not far off from each other as you are trying to make it look like.
And if you talk about style, that is completely different thing. IMO Ronaldinho was not as good as Messi, but boy did I like him playing. He had a flair, great movements and style - a joy to watch. Messi is more effective, in the end meaning he does things better, meaning better player. Is he better to watch than prime Dinho?? Not for me, but I still do enjoy him A LOT.
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Re: Lionel Messi
jiopsi wrote:Ivan Helguera (ex-Real Madrid) - "For me, Messi is the best player in history,"
Mircea Lucescu - "I don't think there ever has been or will be a phenomenon like Messi. He's even better than Pele."
Domenico Criscito - "Messi = alien of football!! An extraordinary player.. The best of all times!"
Ferrer (ex-Barcelona -Chelsea): "I played with Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Laudrup and Stoichkov but Messi is the best I've seen"
Osvaldo Ardiles: "There is a natural evolution and players today are just getting better. Messi is by far the best."
Osvaldo Ardiles: "I played with Maradona for 7 years. I thought I'd never see another player like that but I have to say Messi is better."
Bernd Schuster (1xSilver Ball, 2xBronze ball) - "Messi is the best player I have seen in my life."
Gary Neville - "Playing without striker allows Messi, greatest player of modern times and arguably all-time, to find weakest link in any defence."
Gary Lineker: - "I know I go on about Messi being a footballing genius. I have changed my mind. He is better than that."
Ray Hudson: - "Greatest football player I've ever seen, and certainly one of the most fabulous footballers in the history of the game, in my opinion, the greatest ever."
John Terry: - “My kids love him. They both have Barcelona shirts with his name on the back and they like the fact I swapped shirts with him after one of our previous games… It’s a pleasure because when you finish and look back – and the guy’s still going to be going strong – you’ve tested yourself against the best. And, quite clearly for me, he’s the best ever. He’s a great individual, a great person as well and a credit to the sport. For me, he’s got everything. He is magical. “
Adriano Galliani (vice-president Milan): "Messi is the best player ever. And this is said by someone who has seen Maradona and Pele play."
Gary LINEKER: “Fella’s a genius! Best ever by a distance in my life time! Never really saw Pele [...] Wait til he grows up! SOUNESS, GULLIT, VENABLES and now ROONEY agree MESSI is the best they have seen. He plays a game to which we are not familiar.”
Tom Huddlestone - ”Is messi the best ever?? Best I've seen”
Arsene Wenger – Who's the best player in the world? ”Lionel Messi.” Who's the best player of all time? ”Lionel Messi.”
Roy Keane (ex-ManUtd): "I was a big fan of Maradona growing up and of the current crop Ronaldo is good, but Messi is the best I've ever seen"
Mike Gibbons. - "Messi is Maradona meets Gerd Muller."
Rudi Voller: ”Messi is now in the same league as Pele and Maradona”
WayneRooney ”Messi is a joke. For me the best ever. ”
Michael Owen ”Not old enough to see some of the greats but I can't believe anyone can have played the game of football as well as Messi. ”
Jose Luis Chilavert - "Messi is the best, he is better than Maradona," he affirmed. "At Messi's age, Maradona had not won not even 1 percent of what Messi has won."
Ossie Ardiles - “I think he’s certainly the best player of his generation. And I definitely believe not only that but he’s the best player in the history of football. To be perfectly honest, I thought I would never encounter anybody in the same league because Diego was a genius. One of the reasons I think Messi is better than Maradona and Pelé is evolution. People before say Pelé was running 5,000, 6,000 meters. Now they are running 9,000 meters. Now players eat better, train better, the pitches are better. So this is why I believe Messi is the very best ever.”
Ray Hudson (on Messi) - "The most complete footballista I've ever seen."
Gerry Armstrong (on Messi) - "I know what it's like to score against Barcelona, but end up losing 4-1. My first goal in Spanish league was against Barcelona. Unfortunately a certain Diego Maradona was in the side for Barcelona and he just took control and they beat us 4-1.
Look at this little man, well, I think he's better than Maradona, I think he better than anybody I've ever seen."
Carlos Bianchi - Barcelona's Lionel Messi is better than Diego Maradona and Pele
"A few days ago I did a talk for a business and a Brazilian asked me in the middle of the conference who I considered the best footballer in history, Maradona or Pele. I answered that, with all due respect to those two, right now I see Messi as superior to everyone,"
"There have been excellent footballers that weren't able to play in great national teams to prove their class. Moving on from everything that has happened or will happen when he puts on the Argentina jersey, Messi confirms every week that he is capable of doing things that nobody else has managed in the history of football."
Ossie Ardiles - “I would now say that Lionel Messi will go down in history as the No.1 player of all time, the best that there ever was,"
Graeme Souness - "I think he might be the best player that has ever played the game, given that he's 23... He's best around, and I've played against Maradona many times, some people say that Maradona was better, but I disagree.
Clearly bunch of idiots, or is it just that you Vappatrini are just a fangirl?
22 opinions (different people), 6 from people too young to see maradona, 3 more of which didnt actually say messi is better, which leaves 12 opinions left, including the very "sensible" voice of ray hudson, ardiles who simply thinks players run more now, and an idiotic comment by chilavert. Not exactly overwhelming is it? football is a game of opinons and some people might genuinely think messi is the best they've seen, believe it or not before messi was here not everyone thought maradona was the best then either, not everyone thinks messi is the best now, use your own opinon dont just quote others. Didnt galliano say that just before he had dinner with messi to try and persuade him to join milan?
and FYI, gary lineker is indeed an idiot
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Re: Lionel Messi
eelir wrote:
Messi has almost all from what I have seen Maradona does, minus maybe weaker distance shot and leader spirit and charisma. But, ont the other end, he looks quicker (to me at least) and yes, more efficient. More efficient is what everyone wants at the end of the day, right???
And if Messi did not have the ball glued to his feet, he still would be a monster finisher, a great passer, awesome vision, superb through ball player, excellent work rate, one of the quickest players out there... should i continue????
So, in my humble opinion they are pretty much equal, one might be better than the other, but i am in no condition to judge that, but I think i know that much of football as to say that they are not far off from each other as you are trying to make it look like.
How i would say the difference between messi and maradona is that messi is at his best using his physical attributes (agility, acceleration ect) to run past players. Maradona was more about technique ie flicks, tricks, impossible passes, shots. Lots of people know him mainly for his dribbling but it wasnt his most special skill
I dont think its wise to judge a player on youtube but this video shows some example of what i mean
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Re: Lionel Messi
Seen a bit of what you said.
Keep this 1 thing in mind, I'd probably bet close to my life saving that Messi has more "highlights at 18 & 19" on youtube, than Maradona does of his entire career.
To say the least, we can't compare. What you see of Mr. 10 are the memorable moments. Tv back then were only for the "big" games.
I think I can guarantee you this, no one compared when it came to free kicks, presence, general play & leadership. And no one still can. He played this game almost like it was another sport. Sickening how good he was... If you can picture Iniesta, Xavi mixed it with Messi.... That was Diego Maradona. Thinking about Messi as a "complete" player next to him... well, you honestly may as well compare anyone to Messi. I am not exaggerating.
There is no comparison. Different players, they all are if I'm honest...
When he was playing, EVERYONE watched. Love him or hate him, it was an utter spectacle when he played. And there was no Maradona vs Ronaldo/Zico/Platini debate. Every single person on earth, knew who was the very best. Sorry to say, all round, Messi isn't comparable. Other than finishing, where Messi is in a class of his own.
Messi is the absolute best finisher I've had the pleasure to see - hands down.
But for me, football is SO MUCH more than that!!!! And I knew from the first time I saw Maradona, I'd never see a player that good again. You had to see it, I cannot explain. Words cannot describe. The definition of a magician. Think Zidane, but superior. An absolute boss with complete control.
Impossible to over hype it, impossible to over hype him. He really was that good...
I knew it then 26 years ago, like I know it now. There will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, be another Diego Maradona!
Flame away... Disagree, do whatever ya like...
I feel extremely privileged to say that I saw that man play live. Like I keep saying, words cannot describe. And there will never be another like him, not ever!
Keep this 1 thing in mind, I'd probably bet close to my life saving that Messi has more "highlights at 18 & 19" on youtube, than Maradona does of his entire career.
To say the least, we can't compare. What you see of Mr. 10 are the memorable moments. Tv back then were only for the "big" games.
I think I can guarantee you this, no one compared when it came to free kicks, presence, general play & leadership. And no one still can. He played this game almost like it was another sport. Sickening how good he was... If you can picture Iniesta, Xavi mixed it with Messi.... That was Diego Maradona. Thinking about Messi as a "complete" player next to him... well, you honestly may as well compare anyone to Messi. I am not exaggerating.
There is no comparison. Different players, they all are if I'm honest...
When he was playing, EVERYONE watched. Love him or hate him, it was an utter spectacle when he played. And there was no Maradona vs Ronaldo/Zico/Platini debate. Every single person on earth, knew who was the very best. Sorry to say, all round, Messi isn't comparable. Other than finishing, where Messi is in a class of his own.
Messi is the absolute best finisher I've had the pleasure to see - hands down.
But for me, football is SO MUCH more than that!!!! And I knew from the first time I saw Maradona, I'd never see a player that good again. You had to see it, I cannot explain. Words cannot describe. The definition of a magician. Think Zidane, but superior. An absolute boss with complete control.
Impossible to over hype it, impossible to over hype him. He really was that good...
I knew it then 26 years ago, like I know it now. There will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, be another Diego Maradona!
Flame away... Disagree, do whatever ya like...
I feel extremely privileged to say that I saw that man play live. Like I keep saying, words cannot describe. And there will never be another like him, not ever!
Last edited by Vapotrini on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:03 pm; edited 14 times in total
Vapotrini- Banned (Temporary)
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Re: Lionel Messi
What are you talking about Vapo, some of Messi's gameplay is divine.
I am not getting into who is better or worse, but i don't find much difference between the two like you are claiming.
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Re: Lionel Messi
Vapotrini wrote:Seen a bit of what you said.
Keep this 1 thing in mind, I'd probably bet close to my life saving that Messi has more "highlights at 18 & 19" on youtube, than Maradona does of his entire career.
To say the least, we can't compare. What you see of Mr. 10 are the memorable moments. Tv back then were only for the "big" games.
I think I can guarantee you this, no one compared when it came to free kicks, presence, general play & leadership. And no one still can. He played this game almost like it was another sport. Sickening how good he was... If you can picture Iniesta, Xavi mixed it with Messi.... That was Diego Maradona. Thinking about Messi as a "complete" player next to him... well, you honestly may as well compare anyone to Messi. I am not exaggerating.
There is no comparison. Different players, they all are if I'm honest...
When he was playing, EVERYONE watched. Love him or hate him, it was an utter spectacle when he played. And there was no Maradona vs Ronaldo/Zico/Platini debate. Every single person on earth, knew who was the very best. Sorry to say, all round, Messi isn't comparable. Other than finishing, where Messi is in a class of his own.
Messi is the absolute best finisher I've had the pleasure to see - hands down.
But for me, football is SO MUCH more than that!!!! And I knew from the first time I saw Maradona, I'd never see a player that good again. You had to see it, I cannot explain. Words cannot describe. The definition of a magician. Think Zidane, but superior. An absolute boss with complete control.
Impossible to over hype it, impossible to over hype him. He really was that good...
I knew it then 26 years ago, like I know it now. There will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, be another Diego Maradona!
Flame away... Disagree, do whatever ya like...
I feel extremely privileged to say that I saw that man play live. Like I keep saying, words cannot describe. And there will never be another like him, not ever!
Dude stop lying before 86 every peolpe in this planet knew that Platini was better than Maradona or Equal.Like kinda messi vs Cristiano Ronaldo.Even closer than that.it was after 86 world cup where maradona Surpass Paltini.I think you and sportsczy guy are same age.I can remember he said few years back platini was even better than maradona during 82-84.
Not only he, actually lot of people believe Platini was better during this time.
Last edited by Beautiful Football on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:20 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Lionel Messi
Yes, let's compare Getafe, "a division 1 - IE: LEAGUE" defense with that of a "country" who btw happen to have been att co-favourties for the fricking WORLD CUP. Yes, that's fair. Let's please compare them!
And I'm the idiot... This is the flat out ignorance and stupidity I battle, almost daily!
Edit: You're right, delete your post.
And I'm the idiot... This is the flat out ignorance and stupidity I battle, almost daily!
Edit: You're right, delete your post.
Vapotrini- Banned (Temporary)
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Re: Lionel Messi
Beautiful Football wrote:Dude stop lying before 86 every peolpe in this planet knew that Platini was better than Maradona or Equal.Like kinda messi vs Cristiano Ronaldo.Even closer than that.it was after 86 world cup where maradona Surpass Paltini.I think you and sportsczy guy are same age.I can remember he said few years back platini was even better than maradona during 82-84.
Not only he, actually lot of people believe Platini was better during this time.
Platini was a boss - there isn't any doubting that. Platini was also a few years older than Diego from what I recall. So saying he was better is beyond debatable - I was better than Messi at one stage too (when he couldn't walk yet)... as I'm older, no?. Still, it wasn't as widely claimed as you're letting on. Maybe in France? Well, maybe in Europe, or perhaps just your household? As back then (if you even existed which I HIGHLY doubt), you can't tell me you even knew much about Maradona. Few did. Different era altogether with little or no media. No internet, no tv, no nothing. However, I'm sure you'll come back and tell me how you were the 1 guy in all of France who saw Diego play weekly.
Honestly have nothing else to say as I think Platini was without a doubt 1 of the 10 best ever to have played the game. As for me being someone else, I'd have been banned a long, long time ago for having the same IP.
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Re: Lionel Messi
After this post no more discussion with you.No logic nothing.You are just aVapotrini wrote:Beautiful Football wrote:Dude stop lying before 86 every peolpe in this planet knew that Platini was better than Maradona or Equal.Like kinda messi vs Cristiano Ronaldo.Even closer than that.it was after 86 world cup where maradona Surpass Paltini.I think you and sportsczy guy are same age.I can remember he said few years back platini was even better than maradona during 82-84.
Not only he, actually lot of people believe Platini was better during this time.
Platini was a boss - there isn't any doubting that. Platini was also a few years older than Diego from what I recall. So saying he was better is beyond debatable - I was better than Messi at one stage too (when he couldn't walk yet)... as I'm older, no?. Still, it wasn't as widely claimed as you're letting on. Maybe in France? Well, maybe in Europe, or perhaps just your household? As back then (if you even existed which I HIGHLY doubt), you can't tell me you even knew much about Maradona. Few did. Different era altogether with little or no media. No internet, no tv, no nothing. However, I'm sure you'll come back and tell me how you were the 1 guy in all of France who saw Diego play weekly.
Honestly have nothing else to say as I think Platini was without a doubt 1 of the 10 best ever to have played the game. As for me being someone else, I'd have been banned a long, long time ago for having the same IP.
Maradona fanboy noting else ,Goodbye dude have a nice day.
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Re: Lionel Messi
Hehe, what a Messi hater this vapotrini guy. Makes you wonder why he is a barça fan. I'm still laughing at his post around february when he hinted that Messi was already declining and then.... bang, Messi goes on to have the best individual football season a player ever had, light years ahead of any Maradona's season.
Also, someone who thinks Passarella, Borghi, Valdano and other players from the 86 squad were not world beaterrs, doesn't deserve any more attention, to be honest.
Also, someone who thinks Passarella, Borghi, Valdano and other players from the 86 squad were not world beaterrs, doesn't deserve any more attention, to be honest.
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Re: Lionel Messi
free_cat wrote:Hehe, what a Messi hater this vapotrini guy. Makes you wonder why he is a barça fan. I'm still laughing at his post around february when he hinted that Messi was already declining and then.... bang, Messi goes on to have the best individual football season a player ever had, light years ahead of any Maradona's season.
Also, someone who thinks Passarella, Borghi, Valdano and other players from the 86 squad were not world beaterrs, doesn't deserve any more attention, to be honest.
Not to mention some of those were already world chimpion in 1978 without
maradona. Specially Passarella.
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Re: Lionel Messi
Passarella didnt actually do anything at the 86 world cup, unless he was a very good cheerleader
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Re: Lionel Messi
Pasarella was ousted of the squad by Maradona. According to Maradona, Passarella felt jealous that Maradona inherited his captainship, and the squad soon divided itself between those with Maradona and those with Passarella. Passarella then told the squad about his drug uses, which Maradona admitted to. Maradona then countered with a story of Pasarella sleeping with another player's wife, and bragging about it at the Fiorentina changing room. This made Pasarella lose so much credibility that he was forced to quit the team. As Maradona tells it, Valdano (who was highly respected for his intelligence) told him "You're a piece of shit!".
High drama
Also, a lot of the things Vap is saying about Pasarella are equally true about Messi.
High drama
Also, a lot of the things Vap is saying about Pasarella are equally true about Messi.
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Re: Lionel Messi
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Passarella didnt actually do anything at the 86 world cup, unless he was a very good cheerleader
Of course Valdano one of the best striker, Borghi,José Luis Brown,Sergio Batista,Oscar Ruggeri all of them were very good cheerleader .Maradona played 1vs 11.Dude 2010 WORLD CUP SQUAD WAS INFERIOR TO 1986.
IN EVERY DEPARTMENT APART FROM FORWARD.1986 WORLD CUP ARGENTINA HAD ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSE.NO do not tell me maradoa was defender as well lol.Even maradona's own word 1986 team had far better chemistry than 2010.Man, No team in this world not even spain are going to win world cup with maradona as a coach.
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Re: Lionel Messi
I didnt mention any of them, just that passarella didnt play. FYI i do agree the argentina 86 were a good team, but it has to be said they depended a lot on maradona, the whole attack was organised by maradona and often finished off by him as well (quarter final and semi final, 3 genius goals and 1 errrm.... questionable goal ). I wouldnt think argentina would have won without maradona, in fact i really doubt they would have
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Re: Lionel Messi
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Pasarella was ousted of the squad by Maradona. According to Maradona, Passarella felt jealous that Maradona inherited his captainship, and the squad soon divided itself between those with Maradona and those with Passarella. Passarella then told the squad about his drug uses, which Maradona admitted to. Maradona then countered with a story of Pasarella sleeping with another player's wife, and bragging about it at the Fiorentina changing room. This made Pasarella lose so much credibility that he was forced to quit the team. As Maradona tells it, Valdano (who was highly respected for his intelligence) told him "You're a piece of shit!".
High drama
Also, a lot of the things Vap is saying about Pasarella are equally true about Messi.
hmmmm, his autobiography sounds pretty interesting
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Re: Lionel Messi
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I didnt mention any of them, just that passarella didnt play. FYI i do agree the argentina 86 were a good team, but it has to be said they depended a lot on maradona, the whole attack was organised by maradona and often finished off by him as well (quarter final and semi final, 3 genius goals and 1 errrm.... questionable goal ). I wouldnt think argentina would have won without maradona, in fact i really doubt they would have
Why 2010 Argentina lost ask Yourself 1.Coach 2.Defense 3.Midfield and without midfield with no tactics no forwards in this world going to see the ball Against one of the best organised team Germany let alone score.
Tell me Which team in the history of world cup, won world cup without defense,midfield (shit coach)and only with some super star forward.Not to mention shit team chemistry.No way in this world 2010 Argentina was
better than 1986 Argentina.Really lot of people over rated 2010 squad.Do you even think with mighty
otamendi,gutiarez,demichelis in defense argentina had any chance.
Last edited by Beautiful Football on Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Lionel Messi
Hey i never critisised messi for not doing better at the world cup, i know that team had problems that werent messi's fault. But come on lets not just blame the manager, was diego in charge at the copa america? NO! did messi play? YES did he score? NO! BUT LETS JUST BLAME THE MANANGER!
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Re: Lionel Messi
Messi was Argentina's best player at the Copa America and he was deployed as an attacking midfielder. His role wasn't to score, it was to create.
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Re: Lionel Messi
hey he gave every thing for his team.He score his penalty against Uruguay.Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Hey i never critisised messi for not doing better at the world cup, i know that team had problems that werent messi's fault. But come on lets not just blame the manager, was diego in charge at the copa america? NO! did messi play? YES did he score? NO! BUT LETS JUST BLAME THE MANANGER!
This is your mighty tevez and co who missed the penalty.No, in some tough
game other player at least have to step up and do their minimum job...if
they cannot do that..it says lot of things about that team..let alone win
the whole tournament.And Again No player in the history won a whole
tournament by himself.Never happened before never will.
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Re: Lionel Messi
oh yeah he scored a penalty
messi = player of the tournament
messi = player of the tournament
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Re: Lionel Messi
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Messi was Argentina's best player at the Copa America and he was deployed as an attacking midfielder. His role wasn't to score, it was to create.
iirc he had one great performance against an under 23 team, other than that i dont recall him doing much. He was pretty good in the first half against uruguay as well, overall though not a lot to talk about. Colombia and bolivia kept him pretty quiet
btw this thread has gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic
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Re: Lionel Messi
so tevez and co missed penalty now its Messi's fault.Diego Armando Maradona wrote:oh yeah he scored a penalty
messi = player of the tournament
Yeh maradona won couple of copa america by himself.
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Re: Lionel Messi
Beautiful Football wrote:
so tevez and co missed penalty now its Messi's fault.
Yeh maradona won couple of copa america by himself.
Yep he actually led the Argies. Something I've yet to see from Messi.
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Re: Lionel Messi
Beautiful Football wrote:so tevez and co missed penalty now its Messi's fault.Diego Armando Maradona wrote:oh yeah he scored a penalty
messi = player of the tournament
Yeh maradona won couple of copa america by himself.
Im not comparing him to maradona. Im saying you cant blame maradona for messi's world cup when the copa america ends the same way a year later with a different manager
DuringTheWar- First Team
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Re: Lionel Messi
you will see never unless Argentina have proper defence.He willLord Hispano wrote:Beautiful Football wrote:
so tevez and co missed penalty now its Messi's fault.
Yeh maradona won couple of copa america by himself.
Yep he actually led the Argies. Something I've yet to see from Messi.
always be there best player.But hey with this mighty defence argentina
are never going to win any big tournament.Football match won by 11
player not 1.
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