italy vs portugal

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Post by theaguia Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:11 am

JuvenelCuore wrote:
BeautifulGame wrote:
sciacca wrote:

So why say " You can say many people say Portugal are better, but look at your trophy case pal".Who is he referring to as many people in this thread?

And he should grow up before throwing personal insults towards others.

That was just a general comment...you're attacking specifics but ignoring the general here.

I should grow up ? You're 23 years old and arguing with a 17 year old. Give your head a shake pal.

i would find that offensive, but thats just my 2 cents

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Post by Guest Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:14 am

theaguia wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
BeautifulGame wrote:
sciacca wrote:

So why say " You can say many people say Portugal are better, but look at your trophy case pal".Who is he referring to as many people in this thread?

And he should grow up before throwing personal insults towards others.

That was just a general comment...you're attacking specifics but ignoring the general here.

I should grow up ? You're 23 years old and arguing with a 17 year old. Give your head a shake pal.

i would find that offensive, but thats just my 2 cents

How? He's defending himself, after the other guy told him to grow up which is a clear offense...

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Post by theaguia Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:21 am

ya sure...
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Post by M99 Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:04 pm

Dear Portugal fans and neutrals,
Not every Serie A fan in this forum is like Sciacca and Nelcuore The question was whether Italy is better than Portugal AT THE MOMENT and these two bring up Italy's past glories, youtube videos, a friendly which happened 3 years ago and stating that Portugese players are mediocre. Seriously, you guys with your stupid arguments make us look bad, can't you debate maturely?

I believe that Italy is better than Portugal at the moment, for a number of reasons. And these reasons are not that Italy have four World Cups or a better league.

1. Since we are talking about at the moment, Italy is in red hot form. They are top of their Euro group and dominate their matches. Prandelli has bought an identity to the team, which was vastly lacking under Lippi. Portugal under Bento has improved considerably from the Quieroz Portugal and was really impressive in the 4-0 against Spain (the team was second string though) but in the other matches they struggled. In terms of form Italy is ahead of Portugal.

2. In terms of individual talent, Italy just edges out Portugal. Buffon is miles better than greasy gloved Eduardo and Chiellini is a world class CB, he just doesn't get credit because of Juventus' woes which he is not at all responsible for. In a combined Portugal/Italy XI I would Chellini and Carvalho as CB, and put Pepe in the false 6 role he played at the Clasicos. Coentrao is better than Blazaretti offensively but Balzaretti is better defensively, but as an all round player Coentrao>Balzaretti. I do not know who Portugal's RB is so can't comment on Maggio vs Portugal RB. In midfield Pirlo is still class, De Rossi despite having a poor season is one of the best DMs in the world when on form, and Marchisio has been on of the best midfielders in Serie A this season, Montolivo has been impressive in both club and NT. Portugal has Moutinho, Meirless and Veloso, while Veloso is in my opinion average, Meirless and Moutinho are far from mediocre. Italy's midfield edges it out, Pirlo on the national team is the Pirlo of old, De Rossi is better than Veloso, and I can't decide between Marchiso/Montolivo and Meirless. Italy's midfield also has better depth with Aquillani, Motta Nocerino etc. In attack Portugal has two world class wingers in Ronaldo and Nani, however Italy's formation does not require a winger. Rossi has been the best attacker in La Lgia after Ronaldo and Messi, Pazzini and Matri are two top level CFs and both are better than Liedson and Postiga, Cassano is the heart and soul of the team, (and HE DID NOT FLOP AT MILAN, without him we could have kiss our Scudetto goodbye, he saved our a$$es numerous times and has 4 goals and 8 assists in 5 months) Giovinco is of course nowhere near Ronaldo but is one of the most promising wingers in the world and Balotelli, minus the darts and hot temper is a deadly striker and can go on to be a world beater one day.

That's all for now, I'll come up with more points like team chemistry later.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:06 pm

Good God reading this thread was exhausting;

Ok here goes,

@Sciacca; you sir are a quality poster, and with all respect to your Sicilian heritage, toning yourself down a bit would help you get your point across in a more neutral way. Passion is not bad, but too much of it does strike people offensively. I mean no insults, and I am sure you don't as well, but the way you present your argument might be insulting to a lot of people. Again, thanks for your quality posts, just work a little on the Sicilian temper, more Michal than Sonny please.

@JC, please, please read my following post before flaming me. Also, not because you think something is right, that makes it right. Remember what happened to Galileo.

I have no opinion on this debate, but because I like to analyze football, I watched and read assessments on both the NT of Italy and Portugal.

First: this is an analysis of now, 2011, not 2010, not 1009, and 2008. It has nothing to do with the EQualifiers, since Portugal changed coaches.

Second: please read this post and try to understand it, instead of just flaming me for disagreeing.

Third: this is my first venture into a hot thread in this forum, if my rep plummets from this post, i will know how this site works, and will be severely disappointed.

Here goes:

GK: While Buffon just recovered from a long injury, and is not at his heights. He still is classes above Eduardo (maybe not in PKs though). As for the subs, Italy edges PNT with ease.

3:0 (Starter = 2 points, sub =.5 point)

CB: While Chellini is WC, he does not have a WC partner, Rannochia and Bonucci are good, but not WC yet. While his partnership with Bonucci in Juve deserves mention. Also, Bonucci is in doubt. In the othere hand, Pepe despite being a disgrace, is WC. An Caravalho is a veteran. Both played together this year, and both played great.

I think Chellini is individualy better than either of them, but as s team. Pepe and Ricardo edges this. As for the subs. Italy again is better.

(2 for Chellini, and 1 for the subs) (2 for Pepe and 2 for the partnership)
6:4

RB: With Maggio and suitable back ups, Italy comfortably tops PNT in this area. Since PNT does not have a constant or even renowned RB.
(2 for Maggio, 1 for subs)
9:4

LB: a problem position for Italy, while they have good players in Cricito and Balzeratti, neither are spectacular enough, which warrants just a 1 inmo. This however is no problem for PNT, who have Coentro, who has been consitant for the NT, and they also have the subs to back him up.

(1 for having cover) (2 for Coentro and 1 for subs)
10:7

Midfield:
Pirlo and Miereles have had an oppossite season. While Pirlo was class going into the winter break, Raul was not. Afterwards, with Pirlo's injury, and Miereles's rise of form. Raul edges pirlo here. I really like Pirlo, and his undoubted class would still garner him a 1. But we are comparing at the moment, and I can't ignore form.

In the left, Marchisio is underrated as a squad player, and Martinis is not that great IMHO. 2 for italy.

In the right, Montolivo is a solid player, but unspectacular. He never played exceptionally well for the NT and there is no evidence supporting that he will.
Moutinho in the other hand have been amazing for Porto and great for the NT. ANd he has the creativity to trouble any defense. t for PNT.

as for the subs, I say that Italy have more depth the PNT, but the fact that Pepe can slot into midfield easily is great and so can Nani, 2 to italy and 2 to PNT here.

De Rossi is not in the NT for disciplinary reasons, also, he have not been this great this year.
15:13

Forward:

Cassano is overweight and of form, like Pirlo, his talent warrants a 1, but his form denies him a 2.
Rossi is great and hence gets a 2.
Pazzo has never been consistent for the NT and gets no points.
Matri is still not proparly tested and so is Gio. Balo is not included.
Gilardino should give negative points, but that is not how this analysis works.

CR is a definite 2 and so is Nani.
Almeida have been consistent for the NT and hence is a 2.
None of the others get any points from me.

20:19

This is the final result, which proves that Italy is not THAT MUCH GREATER THEN PORTUGAL AND HENCE UNNEEDED BELITTLEMENT IS UNNECESSARY.

Summary: Portugal's lack of goalkeepers is apparent, and is dangerous. The defense of both teams is solid, even if Italy needs to find a stable partner for Chellini. The midfield of Italy can only be better with Pirlo set to regain form. But the fluidity of Portugal's midfield is great. The lack of creativity in the absence of Cassano at the front is worrisome, but the lack of a suitable replacement for Almeida is as well.

Also, this analysis does not take into account a direct match between the two, as tactics can change, and players can push themselves or slack.

Finally, this analysis focuses on the players themselves, and not the chemistry between the team, apart from the CP pairing.

Hope you enjoyed.

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Post by TheRedStag Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:28 pm

milanista99 wrote:Dear Portugal fans and neutrals,
Not every Serie A fan in this forum is like Sciacca and Nelcuore The question was whether Italy is better than Portugal AT THE MOMENT and these two bring up Italy's past glories, youtube videos, a friendly which happened 3 years ago and stating that Portugese players are mediocre. Seriously, you guys with your stupid arguments make us look bad, can't you debate maturely?

I believe that Italy is better than Portugal at the moment, for a number of reasons. And these reasons are not that Italy have four World Cups or a better league.

1. Since we are talking about at the moment, Italy is in red hot form. They are top of their Euro group and dominate their matches. Prandelli has bought an identity to the team, which was vastly lacking under Lippi. Portugal under Bento has improved considerably from the Quieroz Portugal and was really impressive in the 4-0 against Spain (the team was second string though) but in the other matches they struggled. In terms of form Italy is ahead of Portugal.

2. In terms of individual talent, Italy just edges out Portugal. Buffon is miles better than greasy gloved Eduardo and Chiellini is a world class CB, he just doesn't get credit because of Juventus' woes which he is not at all responsible for. In a combined Portugal/Italy XI I would Chellini and Carvalho as CB, and put Pepe in the false 6 role he played at the Clasicos. Coentrao is better than Blazaretti offensively but Balzaretti is better defensively, but as an all round player Coentrao>Balzaretti. I do not know who Portugal's RB is so can't comment on Maggio vs Portugal RB. In midfield Pirlo is still class, De Rossi despite having a poor season is one of the best DMs in the world when on form, and Marchisio has been on of the best midfielders in Serie A this season, Montolivo has been impressive in both club and NT. Portugal has Moutinho, Meirless and Veloso, while Veloso is in my opinion average, Meirless and Moutinho are far from mediocre. Italy's midfield edges it out, Pirlo on the national team is the Pirlo of old, De Rossi is better than Veloso, and I can't decide between Marchiso/Montolivo and Meirless. Italy's midfield also has better depth with Aquillani, Motta Nocerino etc. In attack Portugal has two world class wingers in Ronaldo and Nani, however Italy's formation does not require a winger. Rossi has been the best attacker in La Lgia after Ronaldo and Messi, Pazzini and Matri are two top level CFs and both are better than Liedson and Postiga, Cassano is the heart and soul of the team, (and HE DID NOT FLOP AT MILAN, without him we could have kiss our Scudetto goodbye, he saved our a$$es numerous times and has 4 goals and 8 assists in 5 months) Giovinco is of course nowhere near Ronaldo but is one of the most promising wingers in the world and Balotelli, minus the darts and hot temper is a deadly striker and can go on to be a world beater one day.

That's all for now, I'll come up with more points like team chemistry later.

Wow someone who can actually lay out a coherent logical argument. +1.

Whether I agree with everything you say is another issue, but kudos for not making idiotic statements.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:31 pm

What about me Rolling Eyes :rendeer:
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Post by TheRedStag Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:38 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:What about me Rolling Eyes :rendeer:

You did good my Lord. You did good Thumbs up
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Post by zarola Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:12 pm

Theagula, thanks for attempting to prove your point, other Portuguese are just claiming their team is better with no support.

AGAIN EURO QUALIFIERS MEAN SOMETHING. This Belarus and Spain logic is irrelevant Italy have one more game played than Spain and Spain only have one less point it proves Spain are in the better form not the other way around.

Theagula no one was saying anything about Portuguese foreigners they're just try to tell you that saying balotelli is anything but Italian is actually racist because he was born and raised in Italy by Italians.

What I'm trying to say is Portugal have always been beaten by Italy so before making a ridiculous statement like Portugal can beat them today, you have the burden of proof to prove Portugal is better now, Italians have nothing to prove they should only be here to defend against Portuguese opinions.
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Post by DeviAngel Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:30 pm

omg.... no matter what age u are all acting as children
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