How can Italy regain the fourth CL spot?

Is it possible to regain? How can it happen? Predictions, options?

I personally don't know why we only have 3 spots. We clearly have enough good teams it Italy. Why did we lose it?

An arabic commentator said that Seria will not regain 4th spot at least for the next 6 seasons... I this it is because of points conceded by teams participating in the CL

anouarjuve wrote:An arabic commentator said that Seria will not regain 4th spot at least for the next 6 seasons... I this it is because of points conceded by teams participating in the CL

To be correct, it's 4 year. Still a long time though

Sticchio wrote:

anouarjuve wrote:An arabic commentator said that Seria will not regain 4th spot at least for the next 6 seasons... I this it is because of points conceded by teams participating in the CL

To be correct, it's 4 year. Still a long time though

wow wtf tht sucks

Lost it because teams don't perform in Europe, which includes the CL and EL.

I wouldn't expect it back anytime soon

Luca wrote:Lost it because teams don't perform in Europe, which includes the CL and EL.

I wouldn't expect it back anytime soon

thats sad hopefully next season we can do well including a EL win for Napoli or lazio

If you look here, you see that Serie A lost even more points this season:
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2012.html

And here you can see that even Portugal ATM threatens to overtake Italy:
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2012.html
(Click on the coming years to see how the points shift when the last season is deleted)

Which arabic commentator? Shawali?
My favorite is ali saeed al kabi! so.awesome! He chears for.juve

Italy's falling behind because the system is rubbish...Mediocre teams in UEFA Cup gathering points for other leagues.It should be based on CL alone,what has EL got to do with CL?It's a minor competition that makes a major decision.Very wrong IMO...

Serie A hasnt been all that in CL either has it ?Apart from Inter's 09-10 victory most teams are getting dumped out of CL either in round of 16 or QF's.

It has to be said that Serie A's poor perfomances in the CL,has largely contributed to the demise.


Serie A should forget about the 4th spot atleast for the next 4-5 years.

With that being said it will improve the competitiveness of the league as smaller clubs like Udinese,Napoli and Lazio too want a piece of the CL cake.

For example Milan could finish 2nd in one season and finish out of CL places the subsequent season and that could be worse especially if we have to have the hope of earning co-efficient points.And lets be honest none of the Serie A clubs at present are truly elite..

It could change in the future(more money=improve the squad) but Serie A sides have to overcome one more stumbling block that is FFP..At present only Juve look safe for FFP.

Vibe wrote:Italy's falling behind because the system is rubbish...Mediocre teams in UEFA Cup gathering points for other leagues.It should be based on CL alone,what has EL got to do with CL?It's a minor competition that makes a major decision.Very wrong IMO...

The system isn't rubbish. Serie A knew how it works just like every other league. If they don't take it serious, it is their own fault. Or they are simply not good enough. If you only allow for CL points, you would either have to re-introduce that it is only about the champions (thus only 1 starting spot per league) to be fair or figure out some other means to make it possible that leagues can qualify for more or less berths. It could be set up according to the ranking of the NT, too, for example. ^^

The system isn't rubbish. Serie A knew how it works just like every other league. If they don't take it serious, it is their own fault. Or they are simply not good enough. If you only allow for CL points, you would either have to re-introduce that it is only about the champions (thus only 1 starting spot per league) to be fair or figure out some other means to make it possible that leagues can qualify for more or less berths. It could be set up according to the ranking of the NT, too, for example. ^^

You speak as if Serie A teams are a collective hivemind bound in collaboration to climb up the rankings for co-efficients . The is very poor reasoning. The fact that you acquire the same amount of points in a far inferior competition which offers close to 0 reward compared to the CL is quite obviously absurd. It doesn't make sense in any bounds whatsoever as the difference in importance between the competitions has a large disparity. One indication of this is why Italian teams take the competition so lightly due to its complete lack of prestige and rewards as thus why you see them fielding their B teams and preparing for them as if they don't matter. Gaining co-efficient points bring very very little incentive to clubs and understandably so.

The system can be adjusted as it previously was tabulated. The fact that Isreal, Austria Denmark etc are above Scotland in the rankings makes it ever more of a joke.How is the Russian league ranked above Netherlands? I name countless of them but this remarks as a flawed system with multiple loopholes which have been ridiculed by even the Germans themselves. The algorithms used are near pre-historic in calculating the points system.

Calculated according the NT rankings? Are you serious? This must be convenient for Germany as it'll mean England at the moment would be 5 spots down Germany despite having a far better league in strength.

Italian teams must be condemned for their complete lack of respect to the tournament nonetheless despite how useless it actually is as the Germans were smart enough to capitalize on this loophole. They simply took advantage of what is quite a laughable system. And for that they have my respect.

But saying this system isn't flawed is quite laughable.

Vibe wrote:Italy's falling behind because the system is rubbish...Mediocre teams in UEFA Cup gathering points for other leagues.It should be based on CL alone,what has EL got to do with CL?It's a minor competition that makes a major decision.Very wrong IMO...

@Arqui

My question still stands - how would you allow for differing league strengths then? What about only giving the Champions a safe spot then and the 2-4th teams of each league to qualify via play-offs against each other? Or what would you use to determine the number of starting spots?

The system might have flaws, but it seems to be working well for the other major European leagues. I said it last summer: Serie A is not as competitive as it was pre-calciopoli. Juve going down made the league lose competitiveness. The FIGC screwed up when they limited the non-EU players that could be signed as a stupid rash reaction to Italy sucking in the last World Cup. Italians teams didn't have their finances under control. The Serie A TV deals suck compared to leagues like the EPL and La Liga. Teams lost money. The stadiums suck in terms of creating revenue. A lot of top young talent is leaving, even some young Italian talent (which rarely ever happened before).

Serie A is playing by the same rules as all the other leagues and, yet, people here think the league is getting screwed because the system is broke? I don't think so. Serie A just need to start winning in UCL and EL. That's all that ultimately matters.

rwo power wrote:@Arqui

My question still stands - how would you allow for differing league strengths then? What about only giving the Champions a safe spot then and the 2-4th teams of each league to qualify via play-offs against each other? Or what would you use to determine the number of starting spots?

I would personally set the cutoff for a CL place every 4 leagues for direct qualification countries,based on the same coefficient but which accounts only Champions League points.Example...

4 places (3 direct 1 quali)

Spain
England
Germany
Italy

3 places (2 direct 1 quali)

France
Netherlands
Portugal
Russia

2 places (1 direct 1 quali)

Turkey
Ukraine
Greece
Belgium

1 place (quali)

...

This would mean 22 teams go direct,with another 10 coming from qualification rounds...The same as it is now.

salmano9 wrote:Which arabic commentator? Shawali?
My favorite is ali saeed al kabi! so.awesome! He chears for.juve

No it's Hussein Yassine ... I prefer el Kaabi too

Hahhaa kaabi sometimes says so funny things lol

Arquitecto wrote:How is the Russian league ranked above Netherlands?

...because the Russian Premier League is obviously superior. You can't support both sides of the coin on this one, the Eredivisie has made it's money in the past five years in the Europa League, something you've already made the point to say doesn't indicate the true strength of a league. This past season the Dutch registered a total of 13.6 points to be factored into five year tally the comprises the UEFA coefficient, the RPL registered 9.75. Two Russian teams made the knockout stages of the CL, zero made it for the Eredvisie. Get where I'm going with this? In '09/'10, one RPL team in the knockout rounds, zero for the Eredivisie.

Sorry for sidetracking your conversation, boys.

@Arqui

Well, that doesn't look too bad indeed. If I weren't so lazy, I'd love to see how the ranking would look with only the CL points, but I don't really feel like going through the archives and putting together all those points. ^^

rwo power wrote:@Arqui

Well, that doesn't look too bad indeed. If I weren't so lazy, I'd love to see how the ranking would look with only the CL points, but I don't really feel like going through the archives and putting together all those points. ^^

Arqui? :lol!:

@Vibe

That's what you get for rushing through the forum when you are in a hurry. Sorry - I meant you of course *sweatdrop*