Re: Portugal greatest?

by the xcx Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:01 am

The xcx wrote:Eusebio, but but CR7 isint far away.

by EarlyPrototype Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:01 am

Iceman wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:If that was sarcasm then he meant that Ronaldo is actually better, but he didn't mean that.

Not necessarily, he could be just as easily mocking people who claim that Euseibo is better without even watching him

well ok that could be one way of putting it but the way I interpreted it was that he was mocking those who thought Ronaldo would be better.

by Albiceleste Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:02 am

The xcx wrote:Eusobio, but but CR7 isint far away.

Let me know when Cristiana scores 571 goals in 574 games Smile

by Spider Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:05 am

IMO

1- Eusebio
2- Figo
3- Roui Costa
4- C.Ronaldo
5- Deco

by the xcx Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:05 am

Lionel Messi wrote:
The xcx wrote:Eusobio, but but CR7 isint far away.
Let me know when Cristiana scores 571 goals in 574 games

Well it depends how you rate the 60s/70s football to modern one.

by Lord Spencer Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:10 am

First: I don't agree on rating players who are still playing against legends. Players can either enhance or destroy their whole career in what time they have left. Also, rating players who just retired is also faulty, since feelings of nostalgia will undoubtedly hinge your judgment.

Second: Eusébio is a monster of a player, 733 goals in 745 competitive games tells only half of his story. He was one of the reasons the P League was so competitive back in the day, and one of the reasons Benfica dominates.
Not to mention the 1966 world cup. One thing that will make him stand high in any list is the fact that he wouldn't fall down. Literally, would would have to shoot him with a shotgun TWO times and then, he would just sort of stagger.

Former Benfica and Portugal teammate and friend António Simões acknowledges his influence on Benfica and said: "With Eusébio maybe we could be tri European Champions, without him maybe we could win the League."

Third: This thread is moot since Podolski is the greatest Portugal player of all time.

by Lord Spencer Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:13 am

You can't compare 60/70 football with modern football without adjusting for inflation, i.e

Heavier ball.
Lousy equipment.
Less training.
Uneven pitch.
Physical play, lack of cards.
No subs.
Tactical difference.
Different offside rule.
etc.

by JAY-Z Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:04 am

Eusebio

by Mamad Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:26 am

Eusebio is the best.

btw lol at Rui Costa > Ronaldo.

by Guiltybystander Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:32 am

I am sorry but how many of you have even seen Eusebio play, more than the odd blurry half minute of footage? And statistics don't count, this is football from a completely different era. Not saying Eusebio wasn't better, I just think you guys can't even argue either way, because you don't know enough.

If anyone can give me a detailed analysis of Eusebio's game versus CR's, I will take it back.

Second, come on now, CR is better than Figo. Figo was a great player, but CR is in his own way leading the ground for a whole new generation of footballers. There isn't enough CR appreciation on this forum, tbh.

by Iceman Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:53 am

EarlyPrototype wrote:
Iceman wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:If that was sarcasm then he meant that Ronaldo is actually better, but he didn't mean that.

Not necessarily, he could be just as easily mocking people who claim that Euseibo is better without even watching him

well ok that could be one way of putting it but the way I interpreted it was that he was mocking those who thought Ronaldo would be better.

Exactly...the ambivalence of the phrase only proves that it was sarcastic.

by Lord Spencer Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:56 am

Again, rating Figo cannot be unbiased, because he just. It is not until at least 5 years are passed that we can accurately rate him. CR is a great player, NOW, anything can happen in the next five years, his form may go down, go up, or stay the same. All will affect his overall standing.

And I did indeed watch Eusebio play, he is a mix of Ronaldo and Rivaldo IMO.
His main strengths were:
1-He was a physical train.
2-Strong at both feet.
3-Excellent hold-up play.
4-Short bursts of speed.
5-Unholy head.
6-A knack of scoring important goals.

He always delivered when called upon. Which is more than can be said about CR or Messi, YET. You see, CR and Messi still need the next years to prove themselves more. Please don't get into fan boy mode and just completely ignore every argument. CR is still not done yet.

by Guiltybystander Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:10 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:Again, rating Figo cannot be unbiased, because he just. It is not until at least 5 years are passed that we can accurately rate him. CR is a great player, NOW, anything can happen in the next five years, his form may go down, go up, or stay the same. All will affect his overall standing.

And I did indeed watch Eusebio play, he is a mix of Ronaldo and Rivaldo IMO.
His main strengths were:
1-He was a physical train.
2-Strong at both feet.
3-Excellent hold-up play.
4-Short bursts of speed.
5-Unholy head.
6-A knack of scoring important goals.

He always delivered when called upon. Which is more than can be said about CR or Messi, YET. You see, CR and Messi still need the next years to prove themselves more. Please don't get into fan boy mode and just completely ignore every argument. CR is still not done yet.

Fair enough, I'll take your word for it, because I haven't seen enough of Eusebio to accurately judge him as a player. Instinctively I'd say Eusebio was better too, he is at least the bigger legend (indeed here your "living legend" versus retired players argument goes).

I didn't even really want to make the comparison between Eusebio and Ronaldo, just figured that Figo and Ronaldo are close enough in time to be able to compare them properly. To me, Figo lacked some of the subtlety and light-footedness bigger more physical players often lack, whereas CR is both very strong but also very fast and agile. I think that is quite unique.

I am no CR fanboy, I have critized Ronaldo often enough. But I can see that is apparently one of the sole arguments people bring up when talking about CR and Messi. "Oh you are just a fanboy, every praise for this player will therefore be worth less, because you are just a blinded fan". Pretty ad hominem and bad way of discussing players imo.

by izzy Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:13 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:Again, rating Figo cannot be unbiased, because he just. It is not until at least 5 years are passed that we can accurately rate him. CR is a great player, NOW, anything can happen in the next five years, his form may go down, go up, or stay the same. All will affect his overall standing.

And I did indeed watch Eusebio play, he is a mix of Ronaldo and Rivaldo IMO.
His main strengths were:
1-He was a physical train.
2-Strong at both feet.
3-Excellent hold-up play.
4-Short bursts of speed.
5-Unholy head.
6-A knack of scoring important goals.

He always delivered when called upon. Which is more than can be said about CR or Messi, YET. You see, CR and Messi still need the next years to prove themselves more. Please don't get into fan boy mode and just completely ignore every argument. CR is still not done yet.

You might want to tell this to a certain fanboy who's just entered extreme mode.

by Guiltybystander Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:19 pm

izzy26 wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:Again, rating Figo cannot be unbiased, because he just. It is not until at least 5 years are passed that we can accurately rate him. CR is a great player, NOW, anything can happen in the next five years, his form may go down, go up, or stay the same. All will affect his overall standing.

And I did indeed watch Eusebio play, he is a mix of Ronaldo and Rivaldo IMO.
His main strengths were:
1-He was a physical train.
2-Strong at both feet.
3-Excellent hold-up play.
4-Short bursts of speed.
5-Unholy head.
6-A knack of scoring important goals.

He always delivered when called upon. Which is more than can be said about CR or Messi, YET. You see, CR and Messi still need the next years to prove themselves more. Please don't get into fan boy mode and just completely ignore every argument. CR is still not done yet.

You might want to tell this to a certain fanboy who's just entered extreme mode.

Are you talking about me?

by izzy Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:21 pm

Guiltybystander wrote:

Are you talking about me?

No, of course not.

Read the Pele thread and you'll see what i'm talking about. :coffee:

by Abramovich Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:21 pm

lol @ mongs arguing about the use of english, Eusebio is god level CR7 not quite.

by Albiceleste Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:23 pm

izzy26 wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:

Are you talking about me?

No, of course not.

Read the Pele thread and you'll see what i'm talking about.

Why are you so infatuated with me? Every time I post in a thread you jump into it and just assume I'm creaming over Messi, I have barely even posted in here. Stop hiding behind your words and just say my name next time, its the internet, you're not going to get hurt.

by izzy Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:27 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:

Are you talking about me?

No, of course not.

Read the Pele thread and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Why are you so infatuated with me? Every time I post in a thread you jump into it and just assume I'm creaming over Messi, I have barely even posted in here. Stop hiding behind your words and just say my name next time, its the internet, you're not going to get hurt.

Because you are not the only one who creams their pantswhen they see or hear th name Messi.

by Albiceleste Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:33 pm

izzy26 wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:

Are you talking about me?

No, of course not.

Read the Pele thread and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Why are you so infatuated with me? Every time I post in a thread you jump into it and just assume I'm creaming over Messi, I have barely even posted in here. Stop hiding behind your words and just say my name next time, its the internet, you're not going to get hurt.

Because you are not the only one who creams their pantswhen they see or hear th name Messi.

Well next time you're going to insult me or accuse me of anything, bring up the specific post instead of just saying 'this posters a fan boy because I said so!'

by Guiltybystander Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:42 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:

Are you talking about me?

No, of course not.

Read the Pele thread and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Why are you so infatuated with me? Every time I post in a thread you jump into it and just assume I'm creaming over Messi, I have barely even posted in here. Stop hiding behind your words and just say my name next time, its the internet, you're not going to get hurt.

Because you are not the only one who creams their pantswhen they see or hear th name Messi.
Well next time you're going to insult me or accuse me of anything, bring up the specific post instead of just saying 'this posters a fan boy because I said so!'

I kind of agree with this - posters calling "fanboiiiiii" are among the most annoying on this forum. It is not constructive at all, and you immediately dismiss everything the alleged "fanboy" will say, because they reason from a irrational standpoint anyway. Lame.

by Lord Spencer Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:52 pm

I am sorry Guilty if I insinuated that you are a fan boy, I honestly did not mean that.

Also, the only reason I wouldn't like to mention Figo here is because he was an idol just years ago. And hence it would be difficult to constructively argue about him without nostalgia creeping in.

by pdolson Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:35 pm

nobody respects or remembers the legends of football anymore, ronaldo is far greater than eusebio.

by FilipeFerreira Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:26 pm

izzy26 wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:

Are you talking about me?

No, of course not.

Read the Pele thread and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Why are you so infatuated with me? Every time I post in a thread you jump into it and just assume I'm creaming over Messi, I have barely even posted in here. Stop hiding behind your words and just say my name next time, its the internet, you're not going to get hurt.

Because you are not the only one who creams their pantswhen they see or hear th name Messi.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who noticed this.

by EarlyPrototype Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:30 pm

FilipeFerreira wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:

Are you talking about me?

No, of course not.

Read the Pele thread and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Why are you so infatuated with me? Every time I post in a thread you jump into it and just assume I'm creaming over Messi, I have barely even posted in here. Stop hiding behind your words and just say my name next time, its the internet, you're not going to get hurt.

Because you are not the only one who creams their pantswhen they see or hear th name Messi.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who noticed this.

kinda obvious though.

by stunt Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:53 pm

Eusébio is the man I respect the most in football. You see, Eusébio was as prolific as Pelé and one day, it was an european final, beetween Manchester United and Benfica, the game was tied and it was right at the final minutes, Eusébio grabbed the ball near the goal area, passed two defenders, and was alone facing the goalkeeper, that was easy task for him, he just needed to shoot the ball like always and get it past the GK into the net. But no, this time it was different, the goalkeeper defended his shot.

And what does a forward do when he fails a winning goal in the last few minutes of a CL final? Well, he shouldnt be very happy. What did Eusébio do? He went to the goalkeeper and greeted him, and then applauded the defence.

While I do not agree with the Ronaldo haters (being a Ronaldo fan myself) and I do believe what one says in a conference is all lies, and that Barca itself (and Messi) do the utmost to keep lying to the media and fans. But Eusébio was this kind of person, on the field, of the field, everywhere.

But one thing is true, if Ronaldo ever manages to push Portugal to win a WC, he will have my respect, and will be the greatest Portuguese player ever, if he doesnt, he'll always be below Eusébio, since Eusébio only didnt win the WC because the English robbed us.

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