The Three Lions

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Post by Busby Babe Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:41 pm

Adam Johnson deserved to get called up

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Post by M99 Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:40 am

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Post by Motogp69 Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:41 pm

No idea how Cleverly got called up, but I guess every NT manager has an attachment to some player which makes literally no sense.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:02 pm

Can see most players get up to 20-30 minutes at least. Which means a lot of changes at Half time etc.

Hope Roy builds the team around Rooney and Wilshere properly. Means both will have to play 90 minutes but that's fine. Try different combinations with them.
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Post by Onyx Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:15 am

Baines set to sit out England's friendly against Denmark, according to Sky Sports.

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Post by RealGunner Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:20 am

Yea Roy wants to test Shaw and Cole in each half.
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Post by McAgger Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:24 am

Building the team around any one player would the stupidest idea ever. Wilshere and Rooney aren't Messi, Ronaldo, Ibra, or Suarez. Make it about the team, and the team only. No player above the team. Make everyone give the same amount effort and they might stand a chance.

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Post by Onyx Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:25 am

Roy Hodgson has defended Tom Cleverley after 10,000 people signed up to a petition calling for the midfielder to be excluded from England's World Cup squad.

Cleverley has come in for strong criticism this year for his performances for Manchester United and has taken so much abuse he has been forced to delete his Twitter account.

However, the 24-year-old remains a regular in the national set-up which has prompted one England fan, Glenn McConnell from Blackpool, to launch an online petition calling for Cleverley to be "banned" from the World Cup.

McConnell hit out at Hodgson for handing the "inept" Cleverley 13 caps when the midfielder, in his opinion, does not possess "any genuine qualities whatsoever".

Over 10,000 people have signed up to the cause online. Some of them have left derogatory comments on the webpage that hosts the petition - something that Hodgson is not happy about at all.

"That petition does not impress me, I must admit," a visibly irritated England manager said.

"I'm disappointed that Tom, as a sensitive young man, has got to bear that burden, but I know one thing - he will come through it and when he does come through it and Manchester United start winning again, and he's starting to get praise for his performances, he'll be stronger for it."

Cleverley said recently he was annoyed at being a scapegoat for United's recent troubles.

The re-emergence of Jordan Henderson has cast doubt on whether Cleverley will make the 23-man squad for Brazil.

But Hodgson refuses to ditch the Manchester United midfielder, who played the first nine games in England's World Cup qualifying campaign.

"The fact is Tom Cleverley, from the moment the Euros ended, has been a part of the England set-up, he's played some very good games for us, he's been a very useful member of our group," said Hodgson, who may play Cleverley in Wednesday's friendly against Denmark at Wembley.

"Quite frankly, I saw no reason, when selecting a larger group of players here, to leave him out of the team because, perhaps at this moment in time, his team isn't doing well and he's receiving criticism for it.

"I don't think it's really correct that people should single out one player for Manchester United's lack of success this season. I don't think you can expect me as a football person and football coach to have any sympathy with that, and I would like to think that I'm not going to have the England team selected in the future by petitions from various people who are holding it against one person for a team's lack of success.

"So as far as I'm concerned, Tom Cleverley deserves to be in this group of 30. He's done an awful lot of good for us."

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Post by McAgger Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:32 am

Woy is such a undeservingly prideful c*nt that he would take Cleverly to the WC just to spite the people who don't agree with him irregardless of there being absolutely zero quality that Tom would bring to his team.
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Post by RealGunner Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:37 am

McAgger wrote:Building the team around any one player would the stupidest idea ever. Wilshere and Rooney aren't Messi, Ronaldo, Ibra, or Suarez. Make it about the team, and the team only. No player above the team. Make everyone give the same amount effort and they might stand a chance.


Just like how it worked out in 2012 and 2010 right? When the tactics were built upon whole team working like donkeys? In comparison to when the team was built around Beckham n Rooney in 2006 and 2004 where England actually did quite well?

Rooney is on the same 2nd tier as Ibra and Suarez. We have always played better when Rooney is the focal point of the team. It shouldn't be any different this time. Wilshere is the most talented of midfielders we have and someone who can face the likes of Italy, Germany and Spain and match them head to head. The midfield needs to be built around him if we DON'T want to get embarrassed again like we did against Italy in 2012.
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Post by RealGunner Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:39 am

Re Roy

Great decision to back Clevlerley. Doesn't matter how average he is. No one should be making petitions of this sort. It would kill whatever career Cleverley is going to have.He won't go to the WC and surely Roy can't be that sympathetic. He is just there because Roy wanted to call anyone and everyone to give them a chance.
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Post by Curtinho Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:42 pm

Wilshere is not the best England midfielder, especially this year. Rooney is a great player, but the most successful teams over the last few years (say Spain, Germany, Netherlands, Brazil) do not build their teams around just one player, and England shouldn't either.
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Post by Busby Babe Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:23 pm

RealGunner wrote:Re Roy

Great decision to back Clevlerley. Doesn't matter how average he is. No one should be making petitions of this sort. It would kill whatever career Cleverley is going to have.He won't go to the WC and surely Roy can't be that sympathetic. He is just there because Roy wanted to call anyone and everyone to give them a chance.

Agreed.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:29 pm

What did you all think then?

There are 3 more friendlies so I guess it's too early to make a judgement but I was not happy with what I saw at all.

Forget about the individual players, the team as a whole seems very lacklustre in playing. The speed of thought and the speed of play is both very slow. Even between players who are from the same club. It was worrying how we couldn't do a single 1-2 at times.

Defence looks very shaky. Denmark attacked 3 times but they should/could have scored all 3 times. In comparison to their defence which was very well organised despite having a player playing out of position. It was 'only' Denmark. Against teams like Italy, Uruguay and the better ones IF we go past the qualifying rounds. I just can't see England doing very well unless we improve in our next 3 games.

Smalling shouldn't be starting and he probably won't once Jagielka comes back. Our right handside is the weakest with Johnson just not good enough and Walker who is ugh Walker. Most likely Walker would get the nod ahead of Johnson eventually but 3 games to assess that.

Luke Shaw looked very good. Won't be a crazy idea to start him either despite being inexperienced at that level.

Midfield is kinda set. Just a matter of tactical decision to see who starts with Gerrard and Wilshere.

Once again Rooney and Sturridge couldn't link up well. Sturridge looked so much better upfront than left. Rooney can't be dropped rightfully or wrongfully so Roy has to do something about this. The best suggestion is to play Sturridge as the LF and play a midfielder at left wing to keep the right balance.

Sterling did well but Lallana is a better option at LW as he showed last night. Oxlade would most likely start there though and would probably be the best option as well. Interesting to see that battle in any case.

Nothing to say about Hart.
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Post by Busby Babe Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:56 pm

I didn't think Smalling was bad, he's good enough to be back-up which I think you're saying. Johnson was poor yesterday, but I think that has more to do with him not being fully match fit. Walker is pretty bad, so hopefully Johnson regains some form.

Even though, Henderson was only okay yesterday, a midfield with Gerrard and Wilshere is going to need someone with energy and people like Lampard, Carrick and Barkley can't do that, while Henderson can provide that.

Rooney was very poor yesterday, it's a tough decision, but if he doesn't perform in the next three friendlies I would consider dropping him. If Sturridge is performing better for England, he shouldn't be shoved out wide where he could do less damage.

I'd take Luke Shaw over Ashley Cole, I think Ashley Cole had the better half, but he's not going to be here for the next World Cup. They probably both won't get a game, and I think it's better if Luke Shaw has time with the squad and sees what it's like. Ashley Cole being as Baines' understudy and then not playing a game is useless.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:05 pm

Agreed with all. And yea I meant Smalling as backup to them two starters. Honestly I would prefer if Terry goes somehow but that won't happen.

Rooney's case is complicated. He is the golden boy of England. Roy can't drop him and neither he will ask Rooney to play on the LW/RW. Nor Rooney would give his best there.

It has to be a system like we play with Walcott and Giroud where both are effectively strikers but playing in different positions. Rooney dropping deep would help that as well

This is why it was weird to see Sterling RW and Sturridge LW last night.
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Post by Busby Babe Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:21 pm

Yeah, Cahill-Terry partnership would have been nice.

The problem with Rooney, is he doesn't seem to be giving a 100%, maybe it's competition he needs. Whenever he's played for Man Utd on the wing, he's struggled too, added to that, Rooney will complain for playing out of position. I'd also rather play with 3 midfielders. It's tough. Of course, if he can show his club form, then he's undroppable.

I wish Wilshere didn't get injured, so we could have seen him properly as the creative force  Mad
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Post by Busby Babe Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:26 pm

Yeah, on the Giroud-Walcott thing, I think that's what Hodgson is trying to do, he's talked about bringing Rodriguez in the squad because he's that winger/striker type player. He also, plays Welbeck on the left. I'm actually happy that Sturridge performed decently on the wing. Welbeck on the wing is really bad. If that's the way Hodgson wants to setup his team in the end, then Sturridge is the better option.
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Post by Curtinho Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:42 pm

Based on yesterday? I would have England playing a 4 - 3 - 3 with this as their set-up:

Walker - Jagielka - Cahill - Shaw
Henderson - Gerrard - Wilshere
Sterling - Sturridge - Lallana

Obviously this will not happen, but insert Rooney in the place of either Sterling or Lallana and it's still interesting.

EDIT: Although like Johnson has been used as a LB this year, if Baines, Cole or Shaw can be used at RB at all I'd like to see one of them lined up there. Not sure it's worth experimenting on at the National level in the biggest competition in the world, but if they can translate there it'd be a step up from Walker/Johnson IMO.
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Post by Jay29 Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:41 pm

If Wilshere isn't going to be fit enough, I'd like to see:

Hart

Johnson - Jagielka - Cahill - Baines

Henderson - Gerrard - Chamberlain

Sturridge - Rooney - Lallana

At this point, I'd choose Lallana for most games because I think he offers some much needed invention and intelligence to the side. Sturridge, being our best goalscorer currently, and Rooney, being our best player when he feels like it, have to start. Henderson gives good balance in midfield and brings with him that connection he has with Gerrard, while Chamberlain has a better end product than Barkley currently. Alternatively, we can use Lallana as a 10 and have Chamberlain , Sterling or Rodriguez on one of the flanks. Whichever we go with, as long as the balance is right I think we'll end up with a pretty decent side.

Squad wise, I'm thinking:

Goalkeepers: Hart, Forster, Butland
Defenders: Cahill, Jagielka, Smalling, Jones, Johnson, Walker, Baines, Shaw
Midfielders/Wingers: Gerrard, Carrick, Henderson, Wilshere, Barkley, Lallana, Chamberlain, Sterling, Rodriguez
Strikers: Rooney, Sturridge, Welbeck/Lambert


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Post by Art Morte Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:29 pm

I think Milner has a good case for starting in midfield, too. Works hard both ways and has got more experience.

Rooney on the wings is a terrible idea. His strengths are finishing, shooting, passing & vision and ball control. What he is not is a great dribbler, quick or particularly good in tight spaces. Personally I think Rooney either has to play as striker or then perhaps CM rather than CAM (or supporting striker). CAMs don't usually have much time and space to do their thing and I think Wayne needs that a little bit of space when he has the ball to do something with it. He's too easy to close down and that's largely why he sometimes goes missing in games, like against Denmark. Playing striker he can act quickly and use his shooting and finishing, or as a CM you have a little bit more time with the ball, but I don't believe in him as a CAM and even less as any sort of a winger.

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Post by Red Alert Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:00 am

@ RG, my post from the last page.

4411

Rooney floating behind Sturridge so they're both playing centrally.

The Ox / Sterling terrorising the wings, and they both help out defensively. The Ox can help move into the middle and help the midfield duo (Gerrard + Wilshere/Henderson/Carrick/whoever) if they're getting overrun.

England, under Roy, are always going to sit deep and play the counter so a '2 man' midfield could work.

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Post by Nishankly Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:05 am

This WC might a year or two soon, But i feel the English team has a really good base for the future.
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Post by M99 Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:22 pm

Jay Rodriguez ruled out of World Cup No
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Post by Curtinho Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:59 pm

If this were used it would bring the most success for England IMO.

4 - 2 - 3 - 1:

Johnson - Jagielka - Cahill - Baines
Henderson - Gerrard
Sterling - Rooney - Lallana
Sturridge
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Post by RealGunner Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:02 pm

What does everyone think of taking Flanagan to the WC over Johnson or Walker?
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