AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread

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Post by Seth Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:55 pm

Spooony wrote:Arsenal could have nullifyed the midfield conundrum of Milan in two ways; either Ramsey could join Arsenal’s central midfielders and close down Nocerino at the risk of leaving Abate free or Song could push up and leave the defence to deal with K.P Boateng.

somehow you forget that Ibra also tend to drop deep for balls?

At the end of the day, you can put x amount of midfielders to deal with the free person, but you are doing that at the expense of other department, more so if you do not have the proper personnel to pull that.

If you pull 1 from your defense to deal with the extra men in the midfield, you are risking pushing up too high, leaving plenty of spaces behind to be exploited if the attacker breaks through the offside trap or break free of their men.

If you pull 1 from your offense to deal with them (extra men) you are risking dropping too deep causing the attacks to be isolated.

You seem to be stuck in the idea that extra men = advantage.

Think of it this way, if there's no space for that extra men to run into/exploit or no passing route to reach that extra men, then that extra men is as good as useless.

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Post by Tigole Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:04 am


It is going to be a very difficult match-up, but one that we can surely win if we play it right.

Before deciding on the formation it should be noted that Guardiola will either implement a 3-4-3 formation or use his tried and trusted 4-3-3. Considering this is the away tie for Barcelona then he might choose the later formation for some extra defensive cover.

The last game we had some serious problems containing attacks through the wings, so this time we should play with some extra defensive cover. Since all our Left-backs suck then I think Mexes would be a better bet than either Zambrotta, Antonini, or Mesbah.

I would play:

-----------Abbiati

-Abate----Nesta---TS----Mexes

--Aquilani--Ambrosini--Seedorf

-----------Boateng

-----Robinho---------Zlatan
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Post by viepr149 Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:13 am

Zambrotta can't play. We need speed on the wing, he was getting destroyed in the tie in milan.

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Post by Milan31 Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:50 am

We all know Allegri is going to play Ambro and Zambrotta, so let's get prepared from now Sad
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Post by Madvillain Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:29 am

Dante13 wrote:
Hete BLKSM wrote:Well don't get you panties in a bunch now. If I'd have to pick one team that is most likely to end up in the finals other than Barça and Real Madrid, it would be Milan without a doubt. But you have to agree with me that Barça is the superior side.

I'm hoping el nino maravilla will show why he was named best player of the Serie A last year.

Of course , Barcelona are the world champions and proven as well. There's no question about Barcelona's worth . Though , you know what they say , you are as "superior" as you were in your last match.

Not to mention about Inter , when clearly the team with the better quality and superiority on the field , actually got knocked out. This is just an example , but proves what i say.

If you bring Inter up, you must also remember how they knocked us out of the competition. Let's just say the referee didn't exactly help us.

Let's just hope for some fair games and may the best team proceed to the semis (and probably the finals).
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Post by Spooony Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:01 am

Potential wrote:
Spooony wrote:Seedorf is a deep laying playmaker and Van Bommel a destroyer. Boateng is your box to box midfielder Nocerino is a holding midfielder. But you need the same amount of midfielders as Barca plus 1 cause Messi drop deep and create another extra midfielder

Same as both of Ibrahimovic, ES92 and Robinho.
Yes but Barca press high up the pitch which mean them dropping into midfield will be inside their own half way out of their zones.

Look here
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Real+Madrid+from+the+kick+off
That was Barca sitting deep. As the ball goes back to Puyol, Benzema presses him while Ozil follows, pressing the player behind. Di Maria moves forward ready for when the ball moves to the left.

AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Real+Madrid%2527s+4-4-2+pressing+shape+2
Look at the marking and each player covering someone. Madrid had better of the game then.

Then Pep responded and this happened
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Real-mdrid-image

Lookhow far they pushed up and where the front players are now. Terribly out of position. Paying four central midfielders alongside Messi who is allowed a free role and Sanchez as the only striker. So that free man is Messi in Mians half of the pitch. Because of the high line and pressing when Ibra or Robinho do it they will be also in their own half of the pitch getting pressed which means there is not much time for midfielders to race forward into space.

If you sit deep and compact, you allow Barca onto you from deep, allow them to push you back and have the risk of the pressing game suffocating you. If you press high up, then there's space between the lines for Iniesta and Messi and the quick combinations and interchanging will open you up. Coming up with a tactical plan is very difficult.

Btw I am not saying this is wrong or they are inferior and so on I am just trying to show you different tactics its advantages and disadvantages and result of it. So I am not saying Milan is going to do that and Barca is going to do that. Just explaining what the problems they face and why some things will be a horrible idea. It is going to be a fascinating tactical battle. And we all know Italian football is all about tactical battles and moving your chess pieces. Something some people don't see and brand it as boring or a snore fest because of the low scorelines but in fact its tactically one of the most exciting leagues in the world.
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Post by Forza Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:17 am

- You make some good points and you are clearly well-informed tactically, but don't mistake Milan for Madrid.

- Whether it's the right or wrong thing to do, Ibra and Robinho won't press Barca. Guaranteed.

- There will be no 'line' for Barca to run between. Allegri will aim to clog the whole pitch up as much as possible until we get the ball from a tackle or a mistake. Then we will break forward instantly.

Madrid...

........X
..........X
X......Mids.....X
.......X....X
........GAP
X......Def......X
.......X...X
..........X

That space will not exist when Barca play Milan, Allegri will sacrifice time on the ball for defensive padding and employ the counter-attack. When we get close or score on the counter, then Pep has 2 choices: To continue playing the same way and hope to grab an away goal, or to push players further back and concede ground to us. With the attacking talent that you guys have I'd stick with the same strategy... but the point is that the 4-3-2-1 maximises our chances against Barca's defensively lightweight formation no matter how much possession we get- whereas Madrid's formation is requires control of the game for success.
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Post by Cruijf Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:04 pm

Ganso wrote:Could recover in time:


Ignazio Abate
Alessandro Nesta
Clarence Seedorf
Kevin-Prince Boateng
Robinho
Alexandre Pato


players in red will be available

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prince is available? I love you.

This tie is now looking a hell of a lot better.
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Post by Ganso Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:23 pm

we marked him so well in this game,gotta keep it up.

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Post by Spooony Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:19 pm

Forza Rossoneri wrote:- You make some good points and you are clearly well-informed tactically, but don't mistake Milan for Madrid.

- Whether it's the right or wrong thing to do, Ibra and Robinho won't press Barca. Guaranteed.

- There will be no 'line' for Barca to run between. Allegri will aim to clog the whole pitch up as much as possible until we get the ball from a tackle or a mistake. Then we will break forward instantly.

Madrid...

........X
..........X
X......Mids.....X
.......X....X
........GAP
X......Def......X
.......X...X
..........X

That space will not exist when Barca play Milan, Allegri will sacrifice time on the ball for defensive padding and employ the counter-attack. When we get close or score on the counter, then Pep has 2 choices: To continue playing the same way and hope to grab an away goal, or to push players further back and concede ground to us. With the attacking talent that you guys have I'd stick with the same strategy... but the point is that the 4-3-2-1 maximises our chances against Barca's defensively lightweight formation no matter how much possession we get- whereas Madrid's formation is requires control of the game for success.
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Madridhighline-1
Real Madrid's high-line
Result 5 - 0 Barcelona

AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Espanyolhighline1
Espanyol's high-line
Result 5 - 0 Barcelona

Next False 9
Messi drops so deep that he sometimes looks to pick the ball up from defence. That mean the CB have no one to mark.
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Messidropdeep2
Pepe and Carvalho looked bewildered in that picture. The Yellow indicates Messi. Now because he drops deep he got lots of time to turn and decides what he want to do.
I hear Nesta Messi talk in the other post well....
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Goal41
That what happens when the CB follows Messi. That was the pass which lead to the 4th goal

Espanyol took the cake for me as they used one of the CB in this case Forlin to track Messi
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Messideep1
Do you see how deep Messi is there and how deep he drops? Check where that CB is now see that big space opened up there.

AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Madridbackfive1
There on top is Pedro and that 5th defender there is Di Maria! See how far out of his zone is he.

That means less midfielders for Madrid and were dominated in the middle of the park.

AC Milan vs FC Barcelona; first leg official thread - Page 2 Milan-barca2
Busquets is probably the best player in the world at dropping from midfield into defence to turn a back four into a back three. Barcelona's average positions throughout the 90 minutes - look how Busquets (16) gets deeper and deeper

A 4-2-3-1 however allows your central attacking midfielder to fulfil a number of pressing roles. It all depends on where the ball is, where the nearest players are (both on the same team and opposition team) and where the current position of the player is. Now you push up. When a team is being pressed high up, the short, horizontal passes are the most risky. Barcelona build transitions from the back. If you press high up, then there's space between the lines for players like Iniesta and Messi and their quick combinations and interchanging will open you up.

That 4-2-3-1 strategy you explained there was tried by Jose and Madrid and they lost 3-1
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Post by Seth Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:03 pm

1. Milan will never have the legs to play a high line full pressing game with the squad we have now. Allegri would be really dumb if he forget this.

2. Milan will never play any formation other than 4-3-1-2/4-3-2-1 effectively with the current squad we have, and even I have doubt with the latter. Pretty sure the 4-3-2-1 mentioned above was a typo than an actual formation we used cause after Ancelotti, we haven't been using them.

Frankly, I think you were expecting (and given from the nature of your post, excited) that Milan will pay plenty of attention to Messi (and probably will destroy Milan), however, it seem that the likeliest course of action Allegri will take is similar to the first leg - park a bus, clog the middle, prepare for counter, and not pay too much attention to Messi.

Put it in any words you want, but there are currently no team that can beat Barca at their own game. To beat barca, you'll have to play your own game, and make Barca playing out of their comfort zone.

Simple as that.

Don't expect Milan to bow to you guys and going out without a fight.

Lastly, as much as I hold the Madrid squad and Jose in high regards. Need I remind you that Milan is Milan and Madrid is Madrid? It seemed to me that you are implying that because you beat Madrid, you'll beat Milan... Frankly that is laughable. Anything can happen in football. No one can rule out the possibility that up to the 90th minutes Thiago may rose up the highest and steal an away goal at Nou Camp sending Milan to the Semis.

Sit up, and just enjoy a potentially good football match in Milan v Barca.

This may be just me, but I really feel that the Barca fans (some) in this forum really have this air of "arrogance". You guys are the best team in this era right now (no debate) but Barca are not invincible themselves.

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Post by Tigole Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:04 pm

Seth wrote:1. Milan will never have the legs to play a high line full pressing game with the squad we have now. Allegri would be really dumb if he forget this.

2. Milan will never play any formation other than 4-3-1-2/4-3-2-1 effectively with the current squad we have, and even I have doubt with the latter. Pretty sure the 4-3-2-1 mentioned above was a typo than an actual formation we used cause after Ancelotti, we haven't been using them.

Frankly, I think you were expecting (and given from the nature of your post, excited) that Milan will pay plenty of attention to Messi (and probably will destroy Milan), however, it seem that the likeliest course of action Allegri will take is similar to the first leg - park a bus, clog the middle, prepare for counter, and not pay too much attention to Messi.

Put it in any words you want, but there are currently no team that can beat Barca at their own game. To beat barca, you'll have to play your own game, and make Barca playing out of their comfort zone.

Simple as that.

Don't expect Milan to bow to you guys and going out without a fight.

Lastly, as much as I hold the Madrid squad and Jose in high regards. Need I remind you that Milan is Milan and Madrid is Madrid? It seemed to me that you are implying that because you beat Madrid, you'll beat Milan... Frankly that is laughable. Anything can happen in football. No one can rule out the possibility that up to the 90th minutes Thiago may rose up the highest and steal an away goal at Nou Camp sending Milan to the Semis.

Sit up, and just enjoy a potentially good football match in Milan v Barca.

This may be just me, but I really feel that the Barca fans (some) in this forum really have this air of "arrogance". You guys are the best team in this era right now (no debate) but Barca are not invincible themselves.

Very well said and on top of that very articulate. I must agree that Barcelona have this "holier than thou" attitude that is getting annoying. They are so high up in the clouds that when they drop they will break their bones...
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Post by Ganso Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:48 pm

only xavi is getting rested for them..and alves
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Post by guest7 Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:56 pm

Thank Jose for forcing Barsa into the competing in La Liga again :bow:

Now they won't rest any players against Milan so Mehssi will be meh like usual :bow:
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Post by baresi Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:02 pm

Se7en wrote:Thank Jose for forcing Barsa into the competing in La Liga again :bow:

Now they won't rest any players against Milan so Mehssi will be meh like usual :bow:
Best plan ever, thank you Mourinho. Thumbs up
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Post by billy_gr Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:39 pm

Se7en wrote:Thank Jose for forcing Barsa into the competing in La Liga again :bow:

Now they won't rest any players against Milan so Mehssi will be meh like usual :bow:
I loled

anyway, I'm expecting a great match... see you guys in 4 days
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Post by Seth Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:57 pm

billy_gr wrote:
I loled

anyway, I'm expecting a great match... see you guys in 4 days

As much as you lol-ed, I think it's perfectly safe to say that no Milan fans will be unhappy if Messi had a meh-day over the 2 legs Laughing

That's just how dangerous Messi is

While we are at this... Can we have Potential to jinx Messi as well? cheers

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Post by KR10 Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:38 am

Anyone know the injury status on Nesta and Antonini?

Thinking about Bonera vs Messi just makes me want to kill myself.

At least at RB he will hopefully be better

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Post by dostoevsky Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:27 am

I finally have time to write about this game, so here goes.

Our disadvantages are obvious and many thanks to the untimely injuries which have ravaged our defence, however I shan't dwell on this. We have to do the best we can with the resources available to us and whilst it is unrealistic to expect a result, it is not unrealistic to expect a response from the team and Allegri which best reduces the gap between our team and Barcelona.

Motivation has undoubtedly undone Barcelona in the league this year, however it is also true that they have been undone by sides who would love to have the strength of our second team. This isn't a rally to victory, this is an expectation that when our players step onto the pitch they defend the name of this club with their lives and careers.

Recent developments denote that I should probably begin in defence, however I shan't devote too much time to discussing this. Quite simply put, Bonera-Nesta-Mexes-Antonini should be fielded if they are all fit. If there are doubts concerning their ability to play 90 minutes then this is sadly not the time to risk further disaster. Whoever is fit plays and is expected to do their job, it's as simple as that.

Whilst I expect our defence to their absolute best and beyond, the weakened state of the unit has shifted our strength to midfield when it comes to containing Barcelona. Whilst we are missing Van Bommel, an absolute pillar in our team, we are relatively spoilt for choice in this department. Three places in midfield are to be shared by Ambrosini, Aquilani, Nocerino, Seedorf and Emanuelson, with Boateng in his favoured position behind Ibrahimovic and whoever decides to bring their shooting boots.

Only one of Ambrosini or Seedorf should be fielded for the majority of the match. I'm not averse to Seedorf playing at the base at some point, however this is a tactical change which I would be more comfortable seeing for the final twenty minutes of the match if we need to respond and fight for our lives in this leg. Ambrosini is our captain and he will be quite aware of what is expected from him and his form of late has been improved from his injury plagued beginning of the season. However well he does, at the very least he'll leave everything on the pitch and at some stage I'm sure, his studs in someone's knees. As long as he stays on the pitch, I shan't particularly care though.

Aquilani, despite his absence during a defining period of our season, can rightly be viewed as a key component of our midfield. It's great to have him back, however in a way it's unfortunate that one of our best midfielders can not defend. This is not to question his effort or his ability to occasionally win the ball back. However in the home leg of the group stage, Barcelona's midfield took advantage of Aquilani with embarassing ease. He didn't track runs from the deep, he was clumsy and dangerous in the tackle and let us not forget that he really should have been sent off and was suspended in the end for two yellow cards, the latter of which of course somehow went to Nesta during the game.

Aquilani will be a key to moving the ball vertically as quickly as we can when we play off the break during periods of intense pressure and he'll be pivotal to our attempts to push them back and attack, particularly if Seedorf doesn't play which will place a huge burden on Aquaman, however his defensive contributions will likely be even more paramount. Allegri needs to stress to Aquilani the need to track the likes of Xavi into the box, however tactical compactness and discipline isn't something you can simply pick up in a few days and this is a definite weakness. What Aquilani hasn't picked up during a decade long career won't be taught to him in the next four days. We're simply going to need Aquilani to have a good day defensively, however with what is at stake, I expect the very best he has.

Nocerino is an obvious inclusion, the midfielder who runs all day and poaches like Inzaghi, though it's a mystery how he actually accomplishes all of this. I have a problem though. Emanuelson may for all of his hard work have the decision making of a three year old when he plays as a trequartista, however his versatility is an intriguing advantage. He's by no means an accomplished fullback, however he has some degree of training in defence, significant pace, improved our possession during the time he did spend on the pitch in midfield in Spain and provides the perfect runs from midfield for Boateng, whilst he's by now comfortable playing with Ibrahimovic. Emanuelson's versatility may actually be a perfect compliment to the reactive game plan we will likely be forced to enact, as we move Castello Sforzesco into the Meazza and hope for something on the break, to pressing Barcelona all over the pitch and fighting for every last inch on the pitch. He has been playing all of the time lately, so hopefully fatigue isn't an issue for the Dutchman.

I don't want to exclude any of the trio of Aquilani, Nocerino or Emanuelson, and it would be frankly suicide to use all three in central midfield, however we need a partner for Ibrahimovic in the end, though an argument could be made that a 4-3-2-1 might be preferable to using the Pharaoh if Binho and the Duck aren't looking like they can make it.

This isn't the end, as I've only just discussed a line-up, not a specific tactical approach both offensively and defensively, however I might finish up here for the moment as I mull over the question of our midfield for a while longer. Posts shall be forthcoming. My apologies for being quite inactive in these forums for the past few weeks, however I've been ridiculously busy.

Forza Milan.
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Post by BarcaKizz Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:43 am

Lineup?
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Post by Forza Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:47 am

Abbiati
Zambrotta - Nesta - Mexes/Bonera - Antonini

Aquilani - Ambrosini - Nocerino

Boateng

Ibrahimovic - Robinho
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Post by Potential Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:50 am

I disagree with all of you who say we should focus on the midfield and defense, we should rather focus on our attack, we are forced by injuries to play an attacking game in which our attack is defiantly better than Barcelona, although they have Messi who outweigh the whole scale to them, he doesn't bring his A game when he plays with an Italian game and always struggles when a team sits really deep.

Obviously we can't push up since our defense is woefully slow without both of Silva and Abate therefore we are forced to sit deep and read the game well. We cannot play a defensive midfield against Barcelona, because they'll just outpass the midfield and and attack them, forcing them to go into a more defensive more with Alves not attacking against either of Bonera and Antonini, I rather have Antonini on the left flank since he is fast and Bonera seems to struggle against pacy players. The pushing up should be organized and we should mark the zones rather than players although I wouldn't mind Nocerino marking Xavi limiting their ability to retain possession. although I wouldn't mind rushing Abate back to play if he can play and feels that he can, but I would tell him only to defend and not attack much.

Our midfield should be an attacking efficient one, our squad is vicious to say the least about shooting from outside the box. Seedorf, Aquilani and Nocerino are all amazing shooters from outside the box, with Boateng being almost ambidextrous with an amazing laser beams and Ibrahimovic being just Ibrahimovic. We should shoot at every decent chance as Valdez is not the best with shots from outside of the box. Although on paper it sounds unbelieveable that we'll be able to share possession with the best possession side in the recent history, it was not difficult for the same midfield of van Bommel, Seedorf and Aquilani, which the only difference is the suspension of van Bommel and therefore Nocerino has to fill his shoes which I am sure he is capable of.

I'm not sure about our attack, it's going to be the usual Boateng and Ibrahimovic however the one who side Ibrahimovic is still in doubt, Robinho may have fully recovered but he is unfit and hasn't play therefore I am not sure if we should play him or not, Maxi however has been sublime in training and to all those who watched him in Catania will know that he is an amazing shots, his physical present is attribute in which we must take advantage of, his ability to hold the ball and play as a true target man is vital, especially since we'll need a physical target man because Ibrahimovic will drop deep to play as a play-maker.

Ibrahimovic. I have no doubt Ibra is going to be motivated for this game, we saw what he did to Barcelona the last time we met, wining every header, even going back and assisting the poor Zambrotta in the defense, if he chooses to have one of these night I have no doubt that scoreline will be in favor of us, or at-least not much in favor of Barcelona in which we can outturn the game in the Camp Nou.

Barcelona woeful away form is to be taken seriously! We have to score as much as we can in the San Siro to deflect as much damage to Barcelona morals to stand a good chance at wining in the Camp Nou! Although people think it's impossible, I guarantee you it's not impossible.

The only things to remember in this match is to defend well, hope for a little luck, outshoot Barcelona and finally if possible; ruin the pitch (The Messi Zone)
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Post by billy_gr Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:49 am


At least on the CL I wouldn’t call our away form woeful
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Post by Potential Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:14 am

billy_gr wrote:
At least on the CL I wouldn’t call our away form woeful

What I mean if we have any chance to win this tie, we need a big win at home, I believe we can outscore you, we just need to play really offensive.
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Post by BarcaKizz Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:16 am

You played us better when you defended and relied on luck in the Camp Nou. As I predicted, when you opened up at home we beat you. I dunno, I can't see Milan going for it. They may take a gamble early, then shut up shop though...
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Post by Potential Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:25 am

BarcaKizz wrote:You played us better when you defended and relied on luck in the Camp Nou. As I predicted, when you opened up at home we beat you. I dunno, I can't see Milan going for it. They may take a gamble early, then shut up shop though...

I wouldn't call it luck at Camp Nou, but yes we did play very well in the Camp Nou. However I can't see Milan parking the bus with this defense, especially at home. We need to either go all our attack or all out defense, in which I believe the latter is ideal considering our current injuries.
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