Brazilian Football is Behind - A Perfect Analysis written by a professional footballer

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Post by rsinatra Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:38 am

The Franchise wrote:Yes, I remember him saying that. Its true.

Why the change though? Why the widespread lac of patience?

Then again, thats a question for European football too, though it seems its not quite as drastic.

Are there any clubs who exercise pateince?

Another question. Luxembergo seems to have had 56 millions jobs...is that because of him or the clubs?




Well, clubs with money can afford to have the patience. Look at Barcelona and their youth academy, the way they slowly introduce the youngsters into the senior squad, etc. Or look at Arsenal, despite the lack of success, they stick to the same coach, and the same philosophy, no matter what. Wenger would've been fired in Brazil at most 1 year after his last title. lol

Luxemburgo is still getting work because of his past, when he was great with Palmeiras in the 90's, amongst other things. He has a name, that's all. He hasn't been good for a decade now. But Brazilian clubs are afraid to invest in newcomers, and impatient, so they for a famous one. The only thing that Luxemburgo manages to win these days are some meaningless State Championship trophies.

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Post by free_cat Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:27 am

Thanks.

About the article, it says many things I've been saying all along. Mainly that Brasil doesn't produce supreme talents compared to other countries anymore. The reasons of that, I don't know for sure, and I can take that Paulo Andre know more about them, so I agree with him.

However, the point about players going to Europe or abroad early, I don't buy it. In the 90's and 2000's, players moved abroad also very young and aplenty, and Brasil was the best team. I think it might be a problem if a young talented player moves to an abroad club that it is not in a top league, that can hinder his progress, but I don't think that happens a lot, and in the end, the best brasilians end in the top leagues, and improve more than in Brasil.

Also, I don't agree with Rsinatra point of view that Brasil should go back to their "brasilian" flair style. Current football has to take a bit of everything to be successful: brasilian flair, dutch passing, italian defence, german organization, etc. Focusing on only flair wouldn't make it successful, neither beautiful today.
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Post by rsinatra Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:33 am

free_cat wrote:Thanks.

About the article, it says many things I've been saying all along. Mainly that Brasil doesn't produce supreme talents compared to other countries anymore. The reasons of that, I don't know for sure, and I can take that Paulo Andre know more about them, so I agree with him.

However, the point about players going to Europe or abroad early, I don't buy it. In the 90's and 2000's, players moved abroad also very young and aplenty, and Brasil was the best team. I think it might be a problem if a young talented player moves to an abroad club that it is not in a top league, that can hinder his progress, but I don't think that happens a lot, and in the end, the best brasilians end in the top leagues, and improve more than in Brasil.

Also, I don't agree with Rsinatra point of view that Brasil should go back to their "brasilian" flair style. Current football has to take a bit of everything to be successful: brasilian flair, dutch passing, italian defence, german organization, etc. Focusing on only flair wouldn't make it successful, neither beautiful today.

About your second paragraph: that is also one of the things the article talks about, if you look at it again. In the 90's and 2000's it was still too early for us to feel the effects of what had started to happen, so our players and stuff more than made up for it. but yeah, i remember Santos' André, who scored a lot of goals in 2010, did brilliantly, and then did what? Moved to Ukraine, at 18 or 19. 6 months later, France. 6 months later, Brazil again, with no confidence whatsoever. Stupid movies result in that!

When I talk about going back to the Brazilian style, I don't mean playing exactly like we did back in 82 or 70. I don't mind borrowing and learning from other styles, and evolving, as long as we keep our style at the core and that we can see it. Nowadays we can't, with Dunga we couldn't..

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Post by Funkentelechy Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:39 pm

Rsinatra,

I could argue Dunga's system was a momentary example as well. The setup described by the text started taking place in the late 90's, but 98, 2002, 2006 teams weren't that way. The point is saying that our league and youth systems are totally market-oriented is exagerated. If it were so, why would our league be so slow compared to European ones? Why would it be much less physical than any European league? Adapting to the pace and physically of europeans leagues is always an issue regarding our youngsters. There's always this talk of Nerman needing to bulk up or Ganso being to slow, for instance.

Also, by lesser clubs I mean in terms of economic power and attractiveness. Valencia, Leverkusen, Santos, Boca Juniors or Newcastle can't offer the same benefits (wages, prestige, titles) than Real Madrid or Barça, so they can't hold on their talents forever. That's what I meant. This is how the market works so it's only natural and it's not bad per se.

I don't disagree with the main idea of text, though, we're miles behind tacticaly. Coaching and magament are the keys to success, but one shouldn't ignore the fact that some gerenations are simply better than others. The good thing about having a not so great generation is that it prompts reflections and changes as we're seeing now. Razz

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Post by rsinatra Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:20 am

Funkentelechy wrote:Rsinatra,

I could argue Dunga's system was a momentary example as well. The setup described by the text started taking place in the late 90's, but 98, 2002, 2006 teams weren't that way. The point is saying that our league and youth systems are totally market-oriented is exagerated. If it were so, why would our league be so slow compared to European ones? Why would it be much less physical than any European league? Adapting to the pace and physically of europeans leagues is always an issue regarding our youngsters. There's always this talk of Nerman needing to bulk up or Ganso being to slow, for instance.

Also, by lesser clubs I mean in terms of economic power and attractiveness. Valencia, Leverkusen, Santos, Boca Juniors or Newcastle can't offer the same benefits (wages, prestige, titles) than Real Madrid or Barça, so they can't hold on their talents forever. That's what I meant. This is how the market works so it's only natural and it's not bad per se.

I don't disagree with the main idea of text, though, we're miles behind tacticaly. Coaching and magament are the keys to success, but one shouldn't ignore the fact that some gerenations are simply better than others. The good thing about having a not so great generation is that it prompts reflections and changes as we're seeing now. Razz


Fair enough, good reply. But even if you take the 98 and 02 squads, they were already quite European, even if we had great players. Cruyff claimed that we won 2002 by playing anti-football. And he's the one always praising Brazilian history. In 2010 he was like "where are the new Socrates, Falcao, Zico?" and stuff. So, my point is that even with these good squads that we've had, they weren't as exciting or original as the ones before the 90's.
I think that our league is slower because that's how we play football, but it might also go to show that we just aren't able to keep up.

I agree with you that some teams just can't afford the same wages as others (though Santos are managing to pay Neymar), but prestige and titles are found at home, we just need to work on the players staying and stuff.

And I agree with you again, some generations are just better than others. My fear is that if nothing is done, we won't be able to have generations as good and as often as we used to, and will become like Denmark or something, coming out of the shell once every 2981293812 years with a golden team.
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