How do you rate Dani Alves?

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Post by Ganso Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:51 pm

tbh,maicon and marcelo are great in tight spaces

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Post by The Franchise Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:02 pm

Neither are better than Alves.

Marcelo is good at doing tricks and going 1 v 1, fair enough. But when does he ever play against a team that sits 10 people in their own half and forces you to break them down? Not often, almost never.

Maicon? He used to rape Serie A defenders who have no idea whatsoever what to do with players on the wings because they have so many centeralized formations.

I rarely saw that same Maicon in the CL.


I dont get it, do we all realise that for Barca, your not supposed to be dribbling and taking people on? Rather, passing it and moving as quick as possible?

This really is the crux of this strange theory.

Dani Alves has played what, 50 Brazil games? He has been bad in what, 10 of them? The rest he has done well, played great or come on as a sub..is that right?

So, the theory is..those 50 games and most of them not even starts.

Those are a better indication of his true talent then the roughly 8 seasons at Sevilla and Madrid where he plays over 50 games in just one season.

Thats the theory.
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Post by Ganso Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:51 pm

what a finish lol
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:52 pm

There goes that system making him look good again.
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Post by CBarca Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:28 am

If you are as good as Dani and Maicon and Marcelo at going forward AND you are great in tight spaces/ a good dribbler.

Why are you a full back?

This is partly why Bale at LB never worked, and now is being amazing at the wing (yes he's good technically in tight spaces). He flourishes with open space, but he's great in tight spaces too. Oh, and he defensively sucks, but for the sake of my argument, I'm going to leave that out.

Of course anyone is open to come and challenge me, I'm not really 100% confident in this opinion.
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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:17 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I've already stated in another thread that I consider him the 4th best player in the team. It's hard to asses where that would be in comparison with all the players in the world, but he'd definitely make my top 20, maybe even the top 10.

alfred, I very much agree. Also nice introductory post from alex.

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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:21 pm

The Franchise wrote:Its a shame he will never have the career for Brazil he has had at club level.

If he was around in the era of Cafu (and Cafu didnt exsist) he would of really shown what he can do.

The team recently is nothing like the Brazil of just 10 years ago, not quality wise more importantly, stylistically.

I am sure though he is very proud of his club career.

2 Uefa cups, 3 Super cups, 3 La Liga, 2 Copa Del Rey, 2 CWC.

He just wins.

dani, I think one main reason why he is not that highly rated by the who's who of the football world is his international career. I mean after playing so brilliantly for us day in and day out, how could he play so badly for Brazil that he was replaced by a totally out of form Maicon? I had actually thought of discussing this with you at that time but it slipped my mind.

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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:23 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:
Can you expand on these liabilities and possibly give examples?

1v1: tick, as good as any.
Pace & tracking back: excellent.
Positioning: excellent, occasionally a winger will get into the space behind him but this is only when he is doing his job (attacking as an auxiliary winger, we lose the ball badly and the opposition counters effectively).
Tackling: good, often commits professional fouls instead (old school trick), relies on interceptions more
Marking: rarely required, but as shown in battles against Madrid he rarely gives cr enough room to breathe.

His wing is generally very safe... Plays so high up and is still virtually impossible to expose. Nothing like Marcelo really.

kizz, that's a brilliant post.

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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:26 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:i rate him the best after the barca trio and CR

Very nice of you to say that openly. I kind of agree.

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Post by The Franchise Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:38 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Its a shame he will never have the career for Brazil he has had at club level.

If he was around in the era of Cafu (and Cafu didnt exsist) he would of really shown what he can do.

The team recently is nothing like the Brazil of just 10 years ago, not quality wise more importantly, stylistically.

I am sure though he is very proud of his club career.

2 Uefa cups, 3 Super cups, 3 La Liga, 2 Copa Del Rey, 2 CWC.

He just wins.

dani, I think one main reason why he is not that highly rated by the who's who of the football world is his international career. I mean after playing so brilliantly for us day in and day out, how could he play so badly for Brazil that he was replaced by a totally out of form Maicon? I had actually thought of discussing this with you at that time but it slipped my mind.

I dont know JD, it would take alot of in depth thought and looking back over footage I wouldnt begin to know where to find.

I saw many of the games in the Copa for example and some other friendlies and here is what I noted.

For Barca, everyone has specific movements. When one comes to the ball, another goes wide or long. We have seen, this version of Alves is at his best when the person in front of him comes inside and draws the leftback with him even if for a brief moment.

I remember one friendly in particular, Jadson who actually is a centeral player strangly stuck himself on the right wing and time and time again didnt move. This made Alves pointless in attack, all he could do was move inside and participate in build up.

Also I note, when Alves recieves the ball, he isnt left alone out on the wing to go 1 v 1 with the fullback. Some from the center, usually Xavi comes in to give him an option, Pedro or Alexis will go onto the last defender in between the centerback and leftback, Messi will come from a center attacking position to link and Dani has 2 or 3 options and can make triangles and exchange passes.

For Brazil, they leave him out there like he is Maicon. If someone like Jadson isnt in his way, then they complete opposite happens, nobody comes to link. Maicon is great at that, he loves to be isolated with a player and take him on the outside. Loves to drive at the defender and put his cross in. Thats not Alves game. He plays in front of the opponant and exchanges passes and THEN runs in behind off the ball and gets in.

Maicon and Dani Alves, while both great going forward, are VERY different types of fullbacks. Maicon is more in the mold of Cafu and Carlos, whereas Alves is very unique.

For Sevilla, he was more like that. With Jesus Navas in front of him and a more counter attacking system he got up and down and was more like a tradional attacking fullback.


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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:33 pm

Agree with some and disagree with some.

Firstly I wanna say again the importance Alves has been for Barca. Ever since his signing, our right hand side have become so strong and reliable, where it hasnt been for years! It was so inconsistent and weak b4 that for ages.

Alves at Sevilla were already a monster! And him playing as a winger, or romaing non-stop up and down the flank is nothing new.

His crossing has certainly improved though, but certainly no where near 90% Beckham like Razz Those that think that probably dont watch him enough.

His defending has always been great imo, at least ever since he joined Barca. I always found it weird that ppl assume that or think that just becos hes always out of position naturally going forward and has to run back and get into the defensive mode, which isnt easy to do quickly and hence appear to be weak defensively, which he is very strong at when he is in position or is focused on defending rather than lagging up field due to attacking.

His all round play and skills are also top class, his one twos, individual, teamplay is excellent.

Too bad though imo, Maicon is the best RB and Alves is always a close second Razz Those that rate him top 5 is being biased. Maicon on form is just better, hands down. I mean Alves is ridiculously good, but Maicon is a fking alien Lol! Add to that Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldo, and hes not top 5 Razz Then argubly the other few top WC players so hes argubly in top 10, and at the very least top 20 for me Very Happy
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:00 pm

The xcx wrote:Good in forward meh in defence.....Still better than most of the rbs in the world, but hes too onedimensional at times.

Is it just me or is this guy really getting on the nerves with his comments against Barca? Laughing

I Have Mono wrote:
BarcaKizz wrote:
I Have Mono wrote:He's like Marcelo attacking and a little bit better defensively, however they way barca plays defense usually where the whole team surrounds whoever has the ball hides his defensive liabilities. Althought I don't watch barca every game, just my opinion from the few games I watch.

Can you expand on these liabilities and possibly give examples?

1v1: tick, as good as any.
Pace & tracking back: excellent.
Positioning: excellent, occasionally a winger will get into the space behind him but this is only when he is doing his job (attacking as an auxiliary winger, we lose the ball badly and the opposition counters effectively).
Tackling: good, often commits professional fouls instead (old school trick), relies on interceptions more
Marking: rarely required, but as shown in battles against Madrid he rarely gives cr enough room to breathe.

His wing is generally very safe... Plays so high up and is still virtually impossible to expose. Nothing like Marcelo really.

I rate Marcelo... obviously every player is different....but Alves certainly is better defensively than Marcelo.

Ok well 70% possession means he would only be defending 30% of the game if every attack came down his flank. So I'll say he'd have to defend for 27 minutes. Let's say 10% of opponents attacks come down the left middle and right now he's defending 1v1 for a whopping 9 minutes. Barcas high pressure tempo means you win most balls in the middle 1/3 so I'd says he plays defense for 3 minutes a game. I'd say his wing is pretty safe too.

BarcaKizz wrote:The funny thing is that is pretty much the exact same argument used to discredit Valdes and yet clear thinking cuts right through it. With Valdes he has less saves to make than average because of the way we play, but because of this, the saves he does make are generally high risk or 1v1. On the whole he's normally just as decisive as other big name keepers. The same applies for Alves, as Dani has highlighted, he might not encounter attack that regularly but it is often with minimal help and high risk.

At Barca defenders are challenged less, but when they are, its normally in very difficult situations. It's why we need elite defenders and why ordinary players look like headless chickens playing there (caceres, chyg, milito).

Thats a great point Kizz. Cool

BarcaKizz wrote:
Omniscient wrote:My opinion on him is the exact opposite of many fans. Rock solid defensively, mediocre at best going forward.

The only reason he has a reputation for being a top offensive fullback is the vast amount of space he gets when playing for Barcelona. Teams defend very narrow and compact, with Alves making simple runs into that space to receive a pass and deliver the ball in. Honestly, many fullbacks with good stamina can do what he does offensively for Barcelona.

If you look at Alves for Brazil, it's quite apparent that he lacks any quality which would normally be associated with an attacking wingback. He's not a good dribbler, can't really shoot, not the best at crossing, average on the ball.

If Alves doesn't have space to run into, he simply can't do anything offensively.

Top 20 for sure, not very close to top 10 in my opinion, considering how many talented offensive players there are these days.

Very interesting pov, I can maybe see why you think this as he doesnt really have the traditional samba technique of a brazilian. I kind of doubt any player other than him could give as much in attack simply because the stamina needed for his role is unparalleled.

Considering you dont rate him going forward you mustnt have been impressed with his performances under Dunga for Brazil where he'd often play as a Right mid. I thought he was impressive, and one of the better performers at the world cup for brazil.

I think in terms of fullbacks he does not have the dribbling to match Marcelo, but almost everything else he is superior to every other fullback I can think of.

I used to think he misplaced passes too often, but he's improved and now has an incredible passing record and a huge number of assists. He rarely loses the ball as well. You're right that Xavi and Messi open up a lot of space for him but not many players could exploit it better. Finishes very nicely, though he hasn't really used his famed long shooting he used at Sevilla. His crossing has also improved, despite being always good, but a little inconsistent.

Interesting point about space...lots of players do better with space though no? Its always harder without it Lol! Im not sure though...but I guess Alves has his fans and also not Razz

free_cat wrote:Top 15 probably. I don't value Right Backs as much as other positions. Full back is probably one of the least important positions in football.

Having said that, Alves is a player that has such a speed and stamina that it is almost like playing with an extra player in the field (FB+RW).

He is no doubt a great player, and the best full back out there. However, I would put more than 10 players before Dani Alves as better players than him. As on importance in our team, I think that Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, Pique and Valdes are all more important than Alves.

Then, there are some players from other teams that I would say they are better than Alves, mainly because they are more attacking players.


Laughing Laughing

omarish wrote:I hope it's okay if I can give my opinion.

Alves is one of these fullbacks that won't function without space. He exploits the space his teammates works very hard to open with him, along with his excellent short passing and link up with teammates.

To prove my point:


You can see in this video he get's alot of space. I'd compare Alves with Roberto Carlos - both are space-exploiters, good passers and has a strong shot. Hence why they never really "work" as a winger. However, his short passing is good, as you notice he tends to drift in to the middle and start passing with Xaviesta. He also links up very well with teammates, such as Messi.

To me, Alves is a fullback that won't work if he isn't offered the same amount of space. That's why he never works in Brazil. I also think that due to the pressing of Barca, his defending looks better, becouse I often think he is too reckless with his tackles, and against technical wingers he get's troubled.

So to me, Alves is a top 30 player. As a "skilled" player, I don't rate him at all, but he does his job and he is the worlds best at it. He suits Barca's style perfectly, but outside Barca I don't think he can do the job.

The Franchise wrote:Neither are better than Alves.

Marcelo is good at doing tricks and going 1 v 1, fair enough. But when does he ever play against a team that sits 10 people in their own half and forces you to break them down? Not often, almost never.

Maicon? He used to rape Serie A defenders who have no idea whatsoever what to do with players on the wings because they have so many centeralized formations.

I rarely saw that same Maicon in the CL.


I dont get it, do we all realise that for Barca, your not supposed to be dribbling and taking people on? Rather, passing it and moving as quick as possible?

This really is the crux of this strange theory.

Dani Alves has played what, 50 Brazil games? He has been bad in what, 10 of them? The rest he has done well, played great or come on as a sub..is that right?

So, the theory is..those 50 games and most of them not even starts.

Those are a better indication of his true talent then the roughly 8 seasons at Sevilla and Madrid where he plays over 50 games in just one season.

Thats the theory.

The Franchise wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Its a shame he will never have the career for Brazil he has had at club level.

If he was around in the era of Cafu (and Cafu didnt exsist) he would of really shown what he can do.

The team recently is nothing like the Brazil of just 10 years ago, not quality wise more importantly, stylistically.

I am sure though he is very proud of his club career.

2 Uefa cups, 3 Super cups, 3 La Liga, 2 Copa Del Rey, 2 CWC.

He just wins.

dani, I think one main reason why he is not that highly rated by the who's who of the football world is his international career. I mean after playing so brilliantly for us day in and day out, how could he play so badly for Brazil that he was replaced by a totally out of form Maicon? I had actually thought of discussing this with you at that time but it slipped my mind.

I dont know JD, it would take alot of in depth thought and looking back over footage I wouldnt begin to know where to find.

I saw many of the games in the Copa for example and some other friendlies and here is what I noted.

For Barca, everyone has specific movements. When one comes to the ball, another goes wide or long. We have seen, this version of Alves is at his best when the person in front of him comes inside and draws the leftback with him even if for a brief moment.

I remember one friendly in particular, Jadson who actually is a centeral player strangly stuck himself on the right wing and time and time again didnt move. This made Alves pointless in attack, all he could do was move inside and participate in build up.

Also I note, when Alves recieves the ball, he isnt left alone out on the wing to go 1 v 1 with the fullback. Some from the center, usually Xavi comes in to give him an option, Pedro or Alexis will go onto the last defender in between the centerback and leftback, Messi will come from a center attacking position to link and Dani has 2 or 3 options and can make triangles and exchange passes.

For Brazil, they leave him out there like he is Maicon. If someone like Jadson isnt in his way, then they complete opposite happens, nobody comes to link. Maicon is great at that, he loves to be isolated with a player and take him on the outside. Loves to drive at the defender and put his cross in. Thats not Alves game. He plays in front of the opponant and exchanges passes and THEN runs in behind off the ball and gets in.

Maicon and Dani Alves, while both great going forward, are VERY different types of fullbacks. Maicon is more in the mold of Cafu and Carlos, whereas Alves is very unique.

For Sevilla, he was more like that. With Jesus Navas in front of him and a more counter attacking system he got up and down and was more like a tradional attacking fullback.



Franchise, love what ur posting again... and glad u answered it cos I was wondering too why he doesnt do so well with Brazil since I just dont watch Barzil much apart from the WC and some qualifiers Razz So as said, its the team's build and tactics, and teammates not helping him out so hes not able to perform at his best, and u compare him with Maicon whom I rate very highly and above Alves. Alves likes others to work with, but I would say Maicon does as well and probably can beat players more on his on becos Maicon is much stronger build physically. So wouldnt that make Maicon better than him? Is not, why not?

Its obviously a bit like Messi with Argentina, Messi is overrated just becos he doesnt perform as good with Argentina than Barca, and same goes with Alves.
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Post by alexjanosik Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:10 pm

free_cat wrote:Top 15 probably. I don't value Right Backs as much as other positions. Full back is probably one of the least important positions in football.

Having said that, Alves is a player that has such a speed and stamina that it is almost like playing with an extra player in the field (FB+RW).

He is no doubt a great player, and the best full back out there. However, I would put more than 10 players before Dani Alves as better players than him. As on importance in our team, I think that Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, Pique and Valdes are all more important than Alves.

Then, there are some players from other teams that I would say they are better than Alves, mainly because they are more attacking players.

free_cat wrote:Top 15 probably. I don't value Right Backs as much as other positions. Full back is probably one of the least important positions in football.

Having said that, Alves is a player that has such a speed and stamina that it is almost like playing with an extra player in the field (FB+RW).

He is no doubt a great player, and the best full back out there. However, I would put more than 10 players before Dani Alves as better players than him. As on importance in our team, I think that Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, Pique and Valdes are all more important than Alves.

Then, there are some players from other teams that I would say they are better than Alves, mainly because they are more attacking players.


You got to be kidding me man.
I am probably Busquets biggest fan on here but even I dont think he is more important to the team than Alves.No way.
And Pique.LOL.You mean the same guy who got 6 yellow cards in consecutive games.
Valdes again dont agree.
Puyol,its arguable and can go either way.We have not lost something like 50 games with him in the side.Still think Alves is more important but can go either way.
Iniesta,again arguable but I think Alves is that more important.
Imo only Xavi and Messi are more important to the team.
Iniesta and Puyol are arguable.
Pique being more important is frankly ridiculous.

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Post by The Franchise Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:13 pm

Maicon cant defend and hasnt been consistly good for 2 seasons, so no.

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Post by free_cat Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:31 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
free_cat wrote:Top 15 probably. I don't value Right Backs as much as other positions. Full back is probably one of the least important positions in football.

Having said that, Alves is a player that has such a speed and stamina that it is almost like playing with an extra player in the field (FB+RW).

He is no doubt a great player, and the best full back out there. However, I would put more than 10 players before Dani Alves as better players than him. As on importance in our team, I think that Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, Pique and Valdes are all more important than Alves.

Then, there are some players from other teams that I would say they are better than Alves, mainly because they are more attacking players.


You got to be kidding me man.
I am probably Busquets biggest fan on here but even I dont think he is more important to the team than Alves.No way.
And Pique.LOL.You mean the same guy who got 6 yellow cards in consecutive games.
Valdes again dont agree.
Puyol,its arguable and can go either way.We have not lost something like 50 games with him in the side.Still think Alves is more important but can go either way.
Iniesta,again arguable but I think Alves is that more important.
Imo only Xavi and Messi are more important to the team.
Iniesta and Puyol are arguable.
Pique being more important is frankly ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous. I would be much, MUCH, more worried if we go into a big game without Busquets than without Alves. Same for Valdes and Pique.
Perhaps Puyol is the only one I overated, because although his record with us is out of this world, he is no longer the force he used to be, and Machete is a sure replacement.

But while I wouldn't be much worried replacing Alves for Adriano or Montoya in a big game, I would be very worried to not have Busquets, Pique or Valdes.

Oh, and I give as a certainity than every player of our holy trinity is more important than Alves.

We've got, the holy trinity, Xavi Iniesta and Messi!
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Post by alexjanosik Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:45 pm

free_cat wrote:
alexjanosik wrote:
free_cat wrote:Top 15 probably. I don't value Right Backs as much as other positions. Full back is probably one of the least important positions in football.

Having said that, Alves is a player that has such a speed and stamina that it is almost like playing with an extra player in the field (FB+RW).

He is no doubt a great player, and the best full back out there. However, I would put more than 10 players before Dani Alves as better players than him. As on importance in our team, I think that Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, Pique and Valdes are all more important than Alves.

Then, there are some players from other teams that I would say they are better than Alves, mainly because they are more attacking players.


You got to be kidding me man.
I am probably Busquets biggest fan on here but even I dont think he is more important to the team than Alves.No way.
And Pique.LOL.You mean the same guy who got 6 yellow cards in consecutive games.
Valdes again dont agree.
Puyol,its arguable and can go either way.We have not lost something like 50 games with him in the side.Still think Alves is more important but can go either way.
Iniesta,again arguable but I think Alves is that more important.
Imo only Xavi and Messi are more important to the team.
Iniesta and Puyol are arguable.
Pique being more important is frankly ridiculous.

I don't think it's ridiculous. I would be much, MUCH, more worried if we go into a big game without Busquets than without Alves. Same for Valdes and Pique.
Perhaps Puyol is the only one I overated, because although his record with us is out of this world, he is no longer the force he used to be, and Machete is a sure replacement.

But while I wouldn't be much worried replacing Alves for Adriano or Montoya in a big game, I would be very worried to not have Busquets, Pique or Valdes.

Oh, and I give as a certainity than every player of our holy trinity is more important than Alves.

We've got, the holy trinity, Xavi Iniesta and Messi!

You cant be serious about Pique man.
I think Masch,Abidal and Puyol are all far more important than Pique who has been coasting for a long time now and is distinctly average most of the time.
Dani Alves is thrice the player Pique is and thrice as important to the team.
Montoya replacing Alves for a big game.Dont even know what to say.

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Post by free_cat Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:56 pm

Pique is pivotal to our game. No ball playing CB = no party.

For a big game, the normal would be to play Puyol as right back and Machete as CB. You could play Adriano as an attacking left back if you need something of what Alves brings, and you would barely notice Alves isn't playing.


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Post by guest7 Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:57 pm

Dani, I don't agree with what you said about Alves regarding his Brazil performances.

He didn't get isolated. Multiple times I saw Neymar trying to link up with him. It didn't work well at all, and on top of it Alves was getting owned consistently by some mediocre winger.

I saw Neymar trying and in the end just gave up and switched to Marcelo's flank to make a difference. Maicon came in and defended a miles better than Alves. Alves just needs the amount of space Barca offers him which he doesn't get in Brazil. In Barca, opening space for teammates is part of the style you play so he usually has alot of it.

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Post by alexjanosik Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:08 pm

free_cat wrote:Pique is pivotal to our game. No ball playing CB = no party.

For a big game, the normal would be to play Puyol as right back and Machete as CB. You could play Adriano as an attacking left back if you need something of what Alves brings, and you would barely notice Alves isn't playing.

Pique pivotal to our play.I dont think so.
Ball playing CB.Agains vastly overrated.He always takes far too long on the ball.
And instead of passing it simple,he does the one play over and over.
The cross field ball whcih ends up in row Z and gifts possession back to the opposition.
So please dont talk of his ball playing skills.
Masch and Abidal are both better on the ball.

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:50 pm

The Franchise wrote:
I dont know JD, it would take alot of in depth thought and looking back over footage I wouldnt begin to know where to find.

I saw many of the games in the Copa for example and some other friendlies and here is what I noted.

For Barca, everyone has specific movements. When one comes to the ball, another goes wide or long. We have seen, this version of Alves is at his best when the person in front of him comes inside and draws the leftback with him even if for a brief moment.

I remember one friendly in particular, Jadson who actually is a centeral player strangly stuck himself on the right wing and time and time again didnt move. This made Alves pointless in attack, all he could do was move inside and participate in build up.

Also I note, when Alves recieves the ball, he isnt left alone out on the wing to go 1 v 1 with the fullback. Some from the center, usually Xavi comes in to give him an option, Pedro or Alexis will go onto the last defender in between the centerback and leftback, Messi will come from a center attacking position to link and Dani has 2 or 3 options and can make triangles and exchange passes.

For Brazil, they leave him out there like he is Maicon. If someone like Jadson isnt in his way, then they complete opposite happens, nobody comes to link. Maicon is great at that, he loves to be isolated with a player and take him on the outside. Loves to drive at the defender and put his cross in. Thats not Alves game. He plays in front of the opponant and exchanges passes and THEN runs in behind off the ball and gets in.

Maicon and Dani Alves, while both great going forward, are VERY different types of fullbacks. Maicon is more in the mold of Cafu and Carlos, whereas Alves is very unique.

For Sevilla, he was more like that. With Jesus Navas in front of him and a more counter attacking system he got up and down and was more like a tradional attacking fullback.

Thanks for a very interesting reply dani. So essentially are you saying that while D.Alves is a better player than Maicon the latter is more suitable when a conventional right back role is needed, fits the Brazilian style better and coaches were right in making Maicon first choice for the national team? I am afraid D.Alves will always remain underrated in football history and will never really be talked about in the same breath as Cafu or R.Carlos except by a handful of people most of whom would be Barca fans.

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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:02 pm

free_cat wrote:
I don't think it's ridiculous. I would be much, MUCH, more worried if we go into a big game without Busquets than without Alves. Same for Valdes and Pique.
Perhaps Puyol is the only one I overated, because although his record with us is out of this world, he is no longer the force he used to be, and Machete is a sure replacement.

But while I wouldn't be much worried replacing Alves for Adriano or Montoya in a big game, I would be very worried to not have Busquets, Pique or Valdes.

Oh, and I give as a certainity than every player of our holy trinity is more important than Alves.

We've got, the holy trinity, Xavi Iniesta and Messi!

cat and alex, what you all are discussing is very interesting but I think we can consider it from two different perspectives.

1. Judging the importance of a player to our team based on the fact that his next immediate replacement in the team is so much below him in quality that it's a major loss to be without that player.

2. Judging the importance of a player to our team based on if we had a whole lot of money how many players are there in the world today who we could have bought to replace him and got the same or better effect.

Trying to analyze from each perspective separately, the results can be glaringly different.

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Post by Adit Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:24 pm

Surprised with Alves a terrible crosser comment.

I actually find his crossing skills World class.

Best RB in the world,but still cant understand why he always performs bad for NT and getting benched by Maicon.
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Post by Adit Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:30 pm

With Barca Alves will have all the space on the right wing because of Barca playing very narrow and opposition teams keeps it tight by playing narrow and leaving space in flanks and not bothering to put men on flanks to mark Alves.
He is not getting that luxury with Brazil,simple as that.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:54 pm

omarish wrote:Dani, I don't agree with what you said about Alves regarding his Brazil performances.

He didn't get isolated. Multiple times I saw Neymar trying to link up with him. It didn't work well at all, and on top of it Alves was getting owned consistently by some mediocre winger.

I saw Neymar trying and in the end just gave up and switched to Marcelo's flank to make a difference. Maicon came in and defended a miles better than Alves. Alves just needs the amount of space Barca offers him which he doesn't get in Brazil. In Barca, opening space for teammates is part of the style you play so he usually has alot of it.


I dont know what games these wore, every Neymar game I have seen he is on the left...so I dont know about that.

If its nothing to do with Brazil style vs his style, then why is Alves not doing well in your view?

He simply isnt good?
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:56 pm

Montoya in a big game...that would be fine and we wouldnt notice Alves is missing.

Free, this is outragous.
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Post by billionmillion Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:30 pm

sometimes 2nd best player for the team, sometimes 3rd, 4th. it depends
Apart from crosses he has excellent brain, thats what makes him top player. sometimes he does passes that xavi can not do. sometimes he keeps ball so perfectly that busquets would take lessons. and alw.ays intelligent moves very less mistakes, perfect RB for barcelona. barca also has perfect midfielder, perfect striker,,only areas that are not perfect is LB and defence
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