How do you rate Dani Alves?

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How good is Dani Alves?

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Post by The Franchise Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:26 pm

Its a shame he will never have the career for Brazil he has had at club level.

If he was around in the era of Cafu (and Cafu didnt exsist) he would of really shown what he can do.

The team recently is nothing like the Brazil of just 10 years ago, not quality wise more importantly, stylistically.

I am sure though he is very proud of his club career.

2 Uefa cups, 3 Super cups, 3 La Liga, 2 Copa Del Rey, 2 CWC.

He just wins.

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Post by Ganso Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:22 pm

im not talking about trophies,im talking about performances,he was simply terrible in copa america,offensively and defensively,he even got benched halfway through the tournament.he cant blame his teammates for that...
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Post by The Franchise Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:26 pm

Ganso wrote:im not talking about trophies,im talking about performances,he was simply terrible in copa america,offensively and defensively,he even got benched halfway through the tournament.he cant blame his teammates for that...


I know, I was talking seperately. It wasnt connected to your post.

Yeah, he didnt play well for Brazil, I saw. How many times did I have to see people standing in his way down the right flank, not moving for him in possession and generally leaving him on a island.

As I said, in another team, like the Brazil of Cafu´s days, he would of done much better.

Nobody is blaming anyone else, he didnt play well, thats on him, but in a different situation he would be great. As proven for Sevilla and Barca.
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Post by the xcx Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:55 pm

Good in forward meh in defence.....Still better than most of the rbs in the world, but hes too onedimensional at times.
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Post by Ganso Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:00 pm

as i said,the guy has been fantastic defensively this season
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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:40 pm

The xcx wrote:Good in forward meh in defence.....Still better than most of the rbs in the world, but hes too onedimensional at times.

The standard old bullsh*t misconception...
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:11 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:
The xcx wrote:Good in forward meh in defence.....Still better than most of the rbs in the world, but hes too onedimensional at times.

The standard old bullsh*t misconception...

Immaculate_Mole wrote:Dani why do you keep responding to xcx he's the most blatent troll on here lol.

Just ignore him, as the saying goes "dont feed the trolls"
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Post by I Have Mono Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:27 pm

He's like Marcelo attacking and a little bit better defensively, however they way barca plays defense usually where the whole team surrounds whoever has the ball hides his defensive liabilities. Althought I don't watch barca every game, just my opinion from the few games I watch.

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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:49 pm

I Have Mono wrote:He's like Marcelo attacking and a little bit better defensively, however they way barca plays defense usually where the whole team surrounds whoever has the ball hides his defensive liabilities. Althought I don't watch barca every game, just my opinion from the few games I watch.

Can you expand on these liabilities and possibly give examples?

1v1: tick, as good as any.
Pace & tracking back: excellent.
Positioning: excellent, occasionally a winger will get into the space behind him but this is only when he is doing his job (attacking as an auxiliary winger, we lose the ball badly and the opposition counters effectively).
Tackling: good, often commits professional fouls instead (old school trick), relies on interceptions more
Marking: rarely required, but as shown in battles against Madrid he rarely gives cr enough room to breathe.

His wing is generally very safe... Plays so high up and is still virtually impossible to expose. Nothing like Marcelo really.
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Post by I Have Mono Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:03 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:
I Have Mono wrote:He's like Marcelo attacking and a little bit better defensively, however they way barca plays defense usually where the whole team surrounds whoever has the ball hides his defensive liabilities. Althought I don't watch barca every game, just my opinion from the few games I watch.

Can you expand on these liabilities and possibly give examples?

1v1: tick, as good as any.
Pace & tracking back: excellent.
Positioning: excellent, occasionally a winger will get into the space behind him but this is only when he is doing his job (attacking as an auxiliary winger, we lose the ball badly and the opposition counters effectively).
Tackling: good, often commits professional fouls instead (old school trick), relies on interceptions more
Marking: rarely required, but as shown in battles against Madrid he rarely gives cr enough room to breathe.

His wing is generally very safe... Plays so high up and is still virtually impossible to expose. Nothing like Marcelo really.

Ok well 70% possession means he would only be defending 30% of the game if every attack came down his flank. So I'll say he'd have to defend for 27 minutes. Let's say 10% of opponents attacks come down the left middle and right now he's defending 1v1 for a whopping 9 minutes. Barcas high pressure tempo means you win most balls in the middle 1/3 so I'd says he plays defense for 3 minutes a game. I'd say his wing is pretty safe too.

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Post by The Franchise Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:07 pm

No, you got to think way more then that.

Firstly, those times he is attacked, he has no help. Every other rightback in the world gets degrees of help because they have more men behind the ball.

Second, he is the one pressing high up the field, in fact he is the best player we have at it.

Finally, none of this is important because at Sevilla he managed to be great without 70% possession.
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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:19 pm

The funny thing is that is pretty much the exact same argument used to discredit Valdes and yet clear thinking cuts right through it. With Valdes he has less saves to make than average because of the way we play, but because of this, the saves he does make are generally high risk or 1v1. On the whole he's normally just as decisive as other big name keepers. The same applies for Alves, as Dani has highlighted, he might not encounter attack that regularly but it is often with minimal help and high risk.

At Barca defenders are challenged less, but when they are, its normally in very difficult situations. It's why we need elite defenders and why ordinary players look like headless chickens playing there (caceres, chyg, milito).
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Post by Hamdyman Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:59 am

Lets quit the belittling.. Dani is a jewel of a defender, the fact that he CAN support up front extremely well does not take away from his great defensive covering..

Any team in the world would wish to have this type of "Modern, do it all" player. Barca and Brazil both are lucky to have him.
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Post by the xcx Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:11 am

Hamdyman wrote:Lets quit the belittling.. Dani is a jewel of a defender, the fact that he CAN support up front extremely well does not take away from his great defensive covering..

Any team in the world would wish to have this type of "Modern, do it all" player. Barca and Brazil both are lucky to have him.
Actually I know few of the clubs whos fbs are with same quality as Alves or a bit inferior, one player even plays in my country. Rare types of player indeed.
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Post by I Have Mono Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:41 am

BarcaKizz wrote:The funny thing is that is pretty much the exact same argument used to discredit Valdes and yet clear thinking cuts right through it. With Valdes he has less saves to make than average because of the way we play, but because of this, the saves he does make are generally high risk or 1v1. On the whole he's normally just as decisive as other big name keepers. The same applies for Alves, as Dani has highlighted, he might not encounter attack that regularly but it is often with minimal help and high risk.

At Barca defenders are challenged less, but when they are, its normally in very difficult situations. It's why we need elite defenders and why ordinary players look like headless chickens playing there (caceres, chyg, milito).

The funny thing is the question of the thread is "how do you rate dani alves ?" which means its an opinion and people are able to discuss how and why they rate/value the mentioned player, yet when I rate him unfavorably and provide my reasoning for why I did so from what is the general consensus I get blasted.

If you only want positive opinions on dani alves that say dani alves número uno RB than please change the name of the thread.

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Post by CBarca Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:14 am

You do realize that when someone gives an opinion, and the other person disagrees with it, and argues with you, that is called discussion? And debating?

Instead of re-naming the thread, how about you provide a counter-argument.

Without discussion and disagreements, this forum wouldn't be here. If you don't want someone to disagree with you, then don't post in the forum. It's how forums work bud.
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Post by BarcaKizz Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:22 am

I Have Mono wrote:
BarcaKizz wrote:The funny thing is that is pretty much the exact same argument used to discredit Valdes and yet clear thinking cuts right through it. With Valdes he has less saves to make than average because of the way we play, but because of this, the saves he does make are generally high risk or 1v1. On the whole he's normally just as decisive as other big name keepers. The same applies for Alves, as Dani has highlighted, he might not encounter attack that regularly but it is often with minimal help and high risk.

At Barca defenders are challenged less, but when they are, its normally in very difficult situations. It's why we need elite defenders and why ordinary players look like headless chickens playing there (caceres, chyg, milito).

The funny thing is the question of the thread is "how do you rate dani alves ?" which means its an opinion and people are able to discuss how and why they rate/value the mentioned player, yet when I rate him unfavorably and provide my reasoning for why I did so from what is the general consensus I get blasted.

If you only want positive opinions on dani alves that say dani alves número uno RB than please change the name of the thread.

Huh??? Blasted? You mean I argued for my point of view... Discussion, that's what a forum is for. I never attacked you, I simply questioned your point of view expecting you to reply with an answer and clarification. If you're the one saying we should be 'able' to discuss, then discuss it...

All I want to do is understand your point of view... Do you have a proper response to my argument?
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Post by BarcaKizz Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:23 am

CBarca wrote:You do realize that when someone gives an opinion, and the other person disagrees with it, and argues with you, that is called discussion? And debating?

Instead of re-naming the thread, how about you provide a counter-argument.

Without discussion and disagreements, this forum wouldn't be here. If you don't want someone to disagree with you, then don't post in the forum. It's how forums work bud.

Thank you .
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:53 am

i rate him the best after the barca trio and CR
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Post by Albiceleste Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:04 am

Top 10-15 in the world imo.

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Post by Omniscient Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:30 am

My opinion on him is the exact opposite of many fans. Rock solid defensively, mediocre at best going forward.

The only reason he has a reputation for being a top offensive fullback is the vast amount of space he gets when playing for Barcelona. Teams defend very narrow and compact, with Alves making simple runs into that space to receive a pass and deliver the ball in. Honestly, many fullbacks with good stamina can do what he does offensively for Barcelona.

If you look at Alves for Brazil, it's quite apparent that he lacks any quality which would normally be associated with an attacking wingback. He's not a good dribbler, can't really shoot, not the best at crossing, average on the ball.

If Alves doesn't have space to run into, he simply can't do anything offensively.

Top 20 for sure, not very close to top 10 in my opinion, considering how many talented offensive players there are these days.

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Post by BarcaKizz Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:03 am

Omniscient wrote:My opinion on him is the exact opposite of many fans. Rock solid defensively, mediocre at best going forward.

The only reason he has a reputation for being a top offensive fullback is the vast amount of space he gets when playing for Barcelona. Teams defend very narrow and compact, with Alves making simple runs into that space to receive a pass and deliver the ball in. Honestly, many fullbacks with good stamina can do what he does offensively for Barcelona.

If you look at Alves for Brazil, it's quite apparent that he lacks any quality which would normally be associated with an attacking wingback. He's not a good dribbler, can't really shoot, not the best at crossing, average on the ball.

If Alves doesn't have space to run into, he simply can't do anything offensively.

Top 20 for sure, not very close to top 10 in my opinion, considering how many talented offensive players there are these days.

Very interesting pov, I can maybe see why you think this as he doesnt really have the traditional samba technique of a brazilian. I kind of doubt any player other than him could give as much in attack simply because the stamina needed for his role is unparalleled.

Considering you dont rate him going forward you mustnt have been impressed with his performances under Dunga for Brazil where he'd often play as a Right mid. I thought he was impressive, and one of the better performers at the world cup for brazil.

I think in terms of fullbacks he does not have the dribbling to match Marcelo, but almost everything else he is superior to every other fullback I can think of.

I used to think he misplaced passes too often, but he's improved and now has an incredible passing record and a huge number of assists. He rarely loses the ball as well. You're right that Xavi and Messi open up a lot of space for him but not many players could exploit it better. Finishes very nicely, though he hasn't really used his famed long shooting he used at Sevilla. His crossing has also improved, despite being always good, but a little inconsistent.
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Post by free_cat Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:48 am

Top 15 probably. I don't value Right Backs as much as other positions. Full back is probably one of the least important positions in football.

Having said that, Alves is a player that has such a speed and stamina that it is almost like playing with an extra player in the field (FB+RW).

He is no doubt a great player, and the best full back out there. However, I would put more than 10 players before Dani Alves as better players than him. As on importance in our team, I think that Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, Pique and Valdes are all more important than Alves.

Then, there are some players from other teams that I would say they are better than Alves, mainly because they are more attacking players.

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Post by guest7 Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:10 pm

I hope it's okay if I can give my opinion.

Alves is one of these fullbacks that won't function without space. He exploits the space his teammates works very hard to open with him, along with his excellent short passing and link up with teammates.

To prove my point:


You can see in this video he get's alot of space. I'd compare Alves with Roberto Carlos - both are space-exploiters, good passers and has a strong shot. Hence why they never really "work" as a winger. However, his short passing is good, as you notice he tends to drift in to the middle and start passing with Xaviesta. He also links up very well with teammates, such as Messi.

To me, Alves is a fullback that won't work if he isn't offered the same amount of space. That's why he never works in Brazil. I also think that due to the pressing of Barca, his defending looks better, becouse I often think he is too reckless with his tackles, and against technical wingers he get's troubled.

So to me, Alves is a top 30 player. As a "skilled" player, I don't rate him at all, but he does his job and he is the worlds best at it. He suits Barca's style perfectly, but outside Barca I don't think he can do the job.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:20 pm

Which attacking fullback can work without space?

I dont understand this theory.

And the defending stuff is just funny now..its unreal. How many times does he has to own people for people to hide behind the excuse of "pressing".

Outside of Barca he cant do that job..how many times are we going to shout SEVILLA...

Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player in the world.
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Post by Ganso Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:51 pm

tbh,maicon and marcelo are great in tight spaces
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