Re: Luis Suarez Banned for 8 Premier League Games

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:25 pm

bhends wrote:I hardly think a comprehensive 100+ page report qualifies as providing only "face value"

One you did not read, going by your chat comments.

by II Capitano Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:26 pm

263. The whole episode in the match starting with Mr Suarez's foul on Mr Evra in the 58th minute, and continuing with their encounter in the penalty area in the 63rd to 65th minutes was confrontational and hostile. In the goalmouth, Mr Evra fired the first verbal assault and Mr Suarez responded in a hostile fashion judged by his demeanour as shown on the video footage and his pinching of Mr Evra's skin. When the referee blew his whistle to stop play, it was less than 10 seconds after the pinching in the goalmouth. This is when Mr Suarez claimed to have used the word “negro” for the one and only time. The players' demeanour, as shown in the video footage, showed that the exchanges continued to be confrontational. This was followed, after the referee had spoken to the players, by Mr Suarez putting his hand on the back of Mr Evra's head in a way which, in our judgment, was intended to aggravate Mr Evra.

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:29 pm

Exactly why I brought the video in, Gladiator. They assumed there was a foul... the video evidence does not seem to back this. This means the tone as assumed is not correct and also makes Evra's own testimony inconsistent.

by aunshi Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:33 pm

It doesn't matter if there was a foul or not as long as Evra felt he was fouled.

by II Capitano Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:38 pm

RedOranje wrote:Exactly why I brought the video in, Gladiator. They assumed there was a foul... the video evidence does not seem to back this. This means the tone as assumed is not correct and also makes Evra's own testimony inconsistent.

It's left me perplexed, although I assume they're just referring to it as a foul because the referee called it as a foul. Anyway, 8 games is a joke...

by RealGunner Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:50 pm

What i said earlier

The whole case is based on Misinterpretation, Assumption and Confusion

by aunshi Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:52 pm

Foul seen clearly from another angle.

by Senor Penguin Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:02 pm

Def a foul there

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:07 pm

aunshi wrote:

Foul seen clearly from another angle.

That clip starts just after the supposed foul... and no contact is shown. More importantly, there is definitely no "kick"
as described in the FA's report. As such their claims that the "kick" sets the tone of the situation is erroneous, putting their entire basis into question.

The FA admit in the report or a later interview that the ramifications of this case make it so important that really there should be a legal standard of proof required but then went onto use far less than any court would ever accept.

It is my opinion that, whether consciously or not, the FA went into this with a verdict already in mind, and looked for a means to confirm their decision, rather than taking evidence at face value and judging it that way. The FA wanted to gain an edge over FIFA & UEFA on the matter of racism and, goaded by the county's media, made a hash of this incident... potentially ruining a player's career in the process. They ignored their own previous precedents and cheapened the real fight against racism all to earn a slight political edge against another organisaton. It's wholly unprofessional and frankly sad.

by RED Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:08 pm

Liverpool are an utter disgrace sticking with him and trying to cover it all up. Trying to play the victims like they always do.

And then the T-shirts saga? smh. They were blatantly defending a racist who admitted what Evra and the rest of the United players said were true.

It's never been about accepting Saurez is a racist, it was all about LFC v United with them.

defending Saurez has destroyed their reputation imo.

by EarlyPrototype Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:09 pm

Definite foul seen in that video.

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:13 pm

Devil-Is-Red wrote:Liverpool are an utter disgrace sticking with him and trying to cover it all up. Trying to play the victims like they always do.

And then the T-shirts saga? smh. They were blatantly defending a racist who admitted what Evra and the rest of the United players said were true.

It's never been about accepting Saurez is a racist, it was all about LFC v United with them.

defending Saurez has destroyed their reputation imo.

This has never been Liverpool vs United. To imply such suggests either a very limited view of things or a deliberate attempt to mislead others.

This has been a case of attempting to defend a key player against charges that are both serious enough to ruin a career and flimsy enough that they would not hold in any other judicial system.

by II Capitano Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:19 pm

How is that not a kick? Bloody hell... and it's a foul ffs.

by bloodless Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:33 pm

RedOranje wrote:
bhends wrote:I hardly think a comprehensive 100+ page report qualifies as providing only "face value"
One you did not read, going by your chat comments.

red I'm just curious, do you consider the statement about him saying I don't talk to black's racist or not? just curious

by cyberman Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:37 pm

unbelievable
club loyalties have side tracked this disgusting incident from the start. first evra cried wolf... wrong
then hes a liar... wrong
negrito isnt offensive, misunderstanding... wrong
crap after crap about negrito and culture yet the word isnt used. well done pool fans, if you think evras account is a misunderstanding you need your head checked.
now we have youtube clips of the foul slash kick... jesus fn christ.
suarez changed his story with incredible.. thats a quote... tall tales to cover himself. and red, this is covered as balance of probabilities so crying foul over burden of proof etc is pathetic.
pool fans... experts in law and culture nuance since october 2011.
id love another 80 pages on the subtlies of the word negrito please, and another klanfield character assassination of a victim of racist abuse.
wonderful

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:37 pm

bloodless wrote:
RedOranje wrote:
bhends wrote:I hardly think a comprehensive 100+ page report qualifies as providing only "face value"
One you did not read, going by your chat comments.

red I'm just curious, do you consider the statement about him saying I don't talk to black's racist or not? just curious

I don't believe he said it. Considering the only evidence of such a statement is Evra's word.

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:40 pm

Having seen a third video of it, starting from before Evra started going down, Suarez DID commit a foul there. I was wrong with the previous videos.

That does not change my stance on the rest of this case, however.

by bloodless Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:43 pm

RedOranje wrote:
bloodless wrote:
RedOranje wrote:
bhends wrote:I hardly think a comprehensive 100+ page report qualifies as providing only "face value"
One you did not read, going by your chat comments.

red I'm just curious, do you consider the statement about him saying I don't talk to black's racist or not? just curious
I don't believe he said it. Considering the only evidence of such a statement is Evra's word.

But the statement if im not wrong states that suarez didn't dispute evra's claims :S

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:45 pm

bloodless wrote:
RedOranje wrote:
bloodless wrote:
RedOranje wrote:
bhends wrote:I hardly think a comprehensive 100+ page report qualifies as providing only "face value"
One you did not read, going by your chat comments.

red I'm just curious, do you consider the statement about him saying I don't talk to black's racist or not? just curious
I don't believe he said it. Considering the only evidence of such a statement is Evra's word.

But the statement if im not wrong states that suarez didn't dispute evra's claims :S

The statement gives Suarez's account, which, by it's very telling, disputes Evra's.

by bloodless Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:49 pm

Okay well for me if he didn't say that then there will be a reduced case for racist statement but redoranje all I'ma say is that racism or any form racist put down is bigger than liverpool fc....I just hope that your support for liverpool and inadvertently suarez never clouds that. That's all

Waiting to see suarez's appeal, if he really didn't say that to evra at i don't speak to black's then he HAS TO CLEAR his name and evra will be an absolute douchebag for making that up...if suarez did infact say that then for me liverpool should add their own ban to the fa's and fine him

by Art Morte Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:55 pm

I think Suarez has forked up here, but I don't think he's actually racist. He was trying to get Evra heated up and just chose a stupid way to go about doing it. Actually being a racist is such a strong "characteristic" that based on this incident I don't think Suarez is really a racist.

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:57 pm

bloodless wrote:Okay well for me if he didn't say that then there will be a reduced case for racist statement but redoranje all I'ma say is that racism or any form racist put down is bigger than liverpool fc....I just hope that your support for liverpool and inadvertently suarez never clouds that. That's all

Waiting to see suarez's appeal, if he really didn't say that to evra at i don't speak to black's then he HAS TO CLEAR his name and evra will be an absolute douchebag for making that up...if suarez did infact say that then for me liverpool should add their own ban to the fa's and fine him

I feel I've made it perfectly clear in this thread that that I do not believe Suarez to have said anything racist nor do I believe him to be racist.

I also do not believe the FA will reduce the ban with appeal as they had their decision made as soon as the case began... it's too good a chance to get points over on FIFA & UEFA and the media are loving the scandal too much.

I am, quite frankly, disappointed in the English media for their reaction to this, and disappointed with many of the football supporters for buying into the media's hype.

EDIT: I would also like to believe that my history of posting has shown that I am generally able to be objective, even on topics concerning Liverpool Football Club and grant me the some benefit of the doubt in this instance... though on the internet I realise this is rarely the case.

by bloodless Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:58 pm

Art Morte wrote:I think Suarez has forked up here, but I don't think he's actually racist. He was trying to get Evra heated up and just chose a stupid way to go about doing it. Actually being a racist is such a strong "characteristic" that based on this incident I don't think Suarez is really a racist.

I doubt anyone will call suarez racist but there is something unfair about getting paid 100k a week, your not allowed to make stupid mistakes....

if suarez gets away with it, the precedent set won't be great

by RED Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

RedOranje, that's the impression I, and a lot of people, get. LFC players and staff knew that Saurez admitted to calling Evra a "negro", yet they backed him in a way to say 'hey, we are not gonna let a United player do this to our most important player'.

It's their in black and white, the FA have released all the evidence except for the video (a video in which they have camera angles that were not broadcast on TV, showing Saurez offending and pinching Evra).

by EarlyPrototype Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:04 pm

An innocent person does not need to change their story multiple times over their statement.

Suarez seems to have changed it a few times. hmm

by RedOranje Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:07 pm

Devil-Is-Red wrote:RedOranje, that's the impression I, and a lot of people, get. LFC players and staff knew that Saurez admitted to calling Evra a "negro", yet they backed him in a way to say 'hey, we are not gonna let a United player do this to our most important player'.

It's their in black and white, the FA have released all the evidence except for the video (a video in which they have camera angles that were not broadcast on TV, showing Saurez offending and pinching Evra).

The only bearing United have on this case, and for that matter, Liverpool, is that their players were involved. This makes it a high profile case. None of the Liverpool players nor staff said anything about Evra being a United player. The only ones making this a Liverpool v United matter are some sets of fans who take the rivalry too far and some media outlets trying to sell tabloids.

EarlyPrototype wrote:An innocent person does not need to change their story multiple times over their statement.

Suarez seems to have changed it a few times.

An ignorant view formed by too many tv dramas, I'm afraid.

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