Re: Luis Suarez Banned for 8 Premier League Games

by RealGunner Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:16 pm

I am not interested in what suarez said and what he didn't. Evra is equally guilty, if FA are letting him walk free then what does that say about the Association ?

by Adit Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:17 pm

I think suarez is definitely at fault at this if he did call him negrito or whatever like that,and he should be punished.But FA has to have strong evidences in before screwing a person over a offense like Racism,i hope they do if not they will look like a Idiot.

by Senor Penguin Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:19 pm

Doc wrote:After reading 30 pages, yes I read 30 pages of opinions, I think I may have some sort of opinion on this matter.

First off, Liverpool have 14 days to appeal and can very well get the banned over turned. This whole thing is a mixture of cultural differences, political correctness and some rather weird decisions from the upper echelons of English football.

The cultural differences with the word "negrito" have been explained thoroughly on this thread. As dear Nigral wrote, negrito in South America isn't a racial slur nor an insult, it's an endearing term apparently. The problem there is the "negro" part of the word (despite the word "negro" not even forming part of the word but the human mind works funny sometimes). It is very easy to presume Evra hearing that word and thinking "WTF he just called me?" considering he isn't from Uruguay nor has any knowledge of life in a South America country. And thus, (assuming Evra's character) Evra pulls out the race card as he deems that word offensive. And here is where political correctness comes into play.

While I know many of you have experienced some level of discrimination, historically, Black people have been targeted constantly, even from their own. So as someone from who is from a black family and did Caribbean History as a 2nd major, I can understand how these words can be mighty offensive to alot of black people. Even if the intent had no malice at all, it something that could send one's blood boiling. Remnants of fire hoses, German Shepherds, "boy", back of the bus and of course, 400 years of free labour and all that jazz. With that said, the political correctness that is taking place with the FA is insane. Jesus Christ, a simple research and warning would have easily suffice but no, they had to make a big deal out of something that isn't a big deal. Yes, there are MUCH worse things that has been done to black people than calling them "negrito" over and over (apparently). Where are the calm heads in the FA? The ones that would sit down and tell everyone to relax and handle this delicately.

And now for the FA themselves to which I put all the blame on. Yes Utd fans and Anti-Racist Warriors (elmystique?), the FA f'ed this up so badly. Now, if two people have an argument that no one else heard, how does one have evidence to charge ONE person over the other? How does one word supersede the other in such a harsh manner? I hope the English FA have some platinum evidence because this could turn out really badly for them. I know they want to show face when it comes racism in football but this isn't some issue with a player swearing in front of a camera, racism is not black and white. It has many forms, many approaches that it requires a lot more guile than just to ban anyone who says something "racist" because someone says it's racist. This bullish manner is not gonna cut it and I believe either the ban would be over turned or Liverpool is gonna drag the FA through the courts.

That ends my rant on this. Don't think it's popular nor legible but one tries...

<elmystique>So what if the intention wasn't to be hurtful!??!? THIS IS NOT SOUTH AMERICA!1111111111one</elmystique>

by Adit Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:20 pm

He is right,this is not south america and what suarez called was wrong(if it is true) ,how hard is to accept that?

Only problem remains is lack of evidences..

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:20 pm

ragbirjosh wrote:
elmystique wrote:
bhends wrote:
Senor Penguin wrote:Why didn't Fergie get punished for his "typical Germans" comment? Isn't that just as bad?

Although he did somewhat get his punishment by having an epic fail of a group stage ...

If you can't see that there's a difference between "typical germans" and "typical negroes/n******" than there's really no point in trying to explain it to you.

might explain that to rajbirjosh as well...

So first off.........the "typical" in the Fergie quotes shows a direct discriminatory quality.

Negro.....by itself is literally a word by which black people have been called.....but is now considered racist.Fine.

Negrito is a coloquial term for "pal" "mate: etc in South America.

Stop writing bullshit........Suarez did not say "typical negro"

your ignorance is beyond me, so I took a little time off to help you out:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/negrito

Negrito:

: a member of a people (as the Andamanese) belonging to a group of dark-skinned peoples of small stature that live in Oceania and the southeastern part of Asia

sounds like an everyday sweetie pie comment in South America indeed...

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:22 pm

elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

by poolsupporter Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:23 pm

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

So technically we can have Johnson come out and say Fergie said something racist to him and we'll have Elm going on for 30 pages about guilty until proven innocent?

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:24 pm

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

has Suarez denied using "negrito" or shall I get you a box so you can look above the brick wall?

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:25 pm

poolsupporter wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

So technically we can have Johnson come out and say Fergie said something racist to him and we'll have Elm going on for 30 pages about guilty until proven innocent?

how hard is it to understand, Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" so what argument do you have?

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:26 pm

elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

has Suarez denied using "negrito" or shall I get you a box so you can look above the brick wall?

Answer my question before you ask your own.

Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

by Senor Penguin Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:26 pm

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

That kind of logic (guilty until proven innocent) only applies in third world countries - countries where racism is most prevalent and where no laws counter it. Gotta love the irony.

elmystique wrote:your ignorance is beyond me, so I took a little time off to help you out:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/negrito

Negrito:

: a member of a people (as the Andamanese) belonging to a group of dark-skinned peoples of small stature that live in Oceania and the southeastern part of Asia

sounds like an everyday sweetie pie comment in South America indeed...

My goodness. Evra is actually from the southeastern part of Asia!

by Nirgal Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:27 pm

Doc wrote:After reading 30 pages, yes I read 30 pages of opinions, I think I may have some sort of opinion on this matter.

First off, Liverpool have 14 days to appeal and can very well get the banned over turned. This whole thing is a mixture of cultural differences, political correctness and some rather weird decisions from the upper echelons of English football.

The cultural differences with the word "negrito" have been explained thoroughly on this thread. As dear Nigral wrote, negrito in South America isn't a racial slur nor an insult, it's an endearing term apparently. The problem there is the "negro" part of the word (despite the word "negro" not even forming part of the word but the human mind works funny sometimes). It is very easy to presume Evra hearing that word and thinking "WTF he just called me?" considering he isn't from Uruguay nor has any knowledge of life in a South America country. And thus, (assuming Evra's character) Evra pulls out the race card as he deems that word offensive. And here is where political correctness comes into play.

While I know many of you have experienced some level of discrimination, historically, Black people have been targeted constantly, even from their own. So as someone from who is from a black family and did Caribbean History as a 2nd major, I can understand how these words can be mighty offensive to alot of black people. Even if the intent had no malice at all, it something that could send one's blood boiling. Remnants of fire hoses, German Shepherds, "boy", back of the bus and of course, 400 years of free labour and all that jazz. With that said, the political correctness that is taking place with the FA is insane. Jesus Christ, a simple research and warning would have easily suffice but no, they had to make a big deal out of something that isn't a big deal. Yes, there are MUCH worse things that has been done to black people than calling them "negrito" over and over (apparently). Where are the calm heads in the FA? The ones that would sit down and tell everyone to relax and handle this delicately.

And now for the FA themselves to which I put all the blame on. Yes Utd fans and Anti-Racist Warriors (elmystique?), the FA f'ed this up so badly. Now, if two people have an argument that no one else heard, how does one have evidence to charge ONE person over the other? How does one word supersede the other in such a harsh manner? I hope the English FA have some platinum evidence because this could turn out really badly for them. I know they want to show face when it comes racism in football but this isn't some issue with a player swearing in front of a camera, racism is not black and white. It has many forms, many approaches that it requires a lot more guile than just to ban anyone who says something "racist" because someone says it's racist. This bullish manner is not gonna cut it and I believe either the ban would be over turned or Liverpool is gonna drag the FA through the courts.

That ends my rant on this. Don't think it's popular nor legible but one tries...

Thanks for taking the time to read and analyze what I've written. Specially considering that given your race you are much more susceptible to be hurt by this situation than most other posters.

Honestly it feels great that my repeated explanations have not fallen to deaf ears

by Le Samourai Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:28 pm

Congrats on taking a dictionary definition and applying it to real life.

I suppose a fag is a small piece of wood or a cigarette also.....................

by Doc Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:28 pm

Senor Penguin wrote:<elmystique>So what if the intention wasn't to be hurtful!??!? THIS IS NOT SOUTH AMERICA!1111111111one</elmystique>

I could never tell if you are sarcastic or serious, you have that uncanny writing ability to be both at the same time. While I understand the Juve fan's stance, it's not whether it is hurtful or not as only Suarez would know the context he said "negrito" in. My whole take on it is the FA not using any sort of diplomacy on a matter that has serious implications. If the ban stands, Suarez would forever be known as a racist. Whatever he does now would be over shadowed by the fact he was charged with racist comments. If the ban stands, Liverpool would be seen as a club that "defended racism" because they are doing what any club would do: defending their player.

by poolsupporter Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:30 pm

elmystique wrote:
poolsupporter wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

So technically we can have Johnson come out and say Fergie said something racist to him and we'll have Elm going on for 30 pages about guilty until proven innocent?

how hard is it to understand, Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" so what argument do you have?

Have you completely missed the part where Suarez has insisted that it was a misunderstanding and how he had no intent to racially abuse Evra? He voluntarily admitted to this because he believed there was nothing wrong with what he said. Had he kept quiet about it, there would be no case here. That alone should aid in understanding Suarez's argument and point of view on the matter.

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:30 pm

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

has Suarez denied using "negrito" or shall I get you a box so you can look above the brick wall?

Answer my question before you ask your own.

Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

let me make my pt easy for you.

There was a murder scene and only Mr. X was found on the spot.

Until investigations are concluded, he is guilty until proven otherwise.

Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" and until the FA concludes investigations, he is as at now deserved of the punishment...

by Le Samourai Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:32 pm

elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

has Suarez denied using "negrito" or shall I get you a box so you can look above the brick wall?

Answer my question before you ask your own.

Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

let me make my pt easy for you.

There was a murder scene and only Mr. X was found on the spot.

Until investigations are concluded, he is guilty until proven otherwise.

Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" and until the FA concludes investigations, he is as at now deserved of the punishment...

Actually No.....he is held as the main suspect for the maximum 24 hours and then released and investigations continue to attempt to prove his guilt.

by poolsupporter Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:32 pm

elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

has Suarez denied using "negrito" or shall I get you a box so you can look above the brick wall?

Answer my question before you ask your own.

Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

let me make my pt easy for you.

There was a murder scene and only Mr. X was found on the spot.

Until investigations are concluded, he is guilty until proven otherwise.

Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" and until the FA concludes investigations, he is as at now deserved of the punishment...

What law system are you referring to. Mr. X is a SUSPECT. He is INNOCENT until proven guilty. Casey Anthony, OJ, etc.

by TheRedStag Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:32 pm

elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

has Suarez denied using "negrito" or shall I get you a box so you can look above the brick wall?

Answer my question before you ask your own.

Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

let me make my pt easy for you.

There was a murder scene and only Mr. X was found on the spot.

Until investigations are concluded, he is guilty until proven otherwise.

Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" and until the FA concludes investigations, he is as at now deserved of the punishment...

So you wont answer the direct question I put to you twice already. Are you refusing to answer it?

Maybe third time lucky. Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:32 pm

poolsupporter wrote:
elmystique wrote:
poolsupporter wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

So technically we can have Johnson come out and say Fergie said something racist to him and we'll have Elm going on for 30 pages about guilty until proven innocent?

how hard is it to understand, Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" so what argument do you have?

Have you completely missed the part where Suarez has insisted that it was a misunderstanding and how he had no intent to racially abuse Evra? He voluntarily admitted to this because he believed there was nothing wrong with what he said. Had he kept quiet about it, there would be no case here. That alone should aid in understanding Suarez's argument and point of view on the matter.

that is the pt. where you miss, racism has no place for the tone or intent with which a word is said, once it was said, we must make an example of the offender as a lesson to others...

by Adit Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:32 pm

Any one who defends with " "Negrito" is used in south america hence is acceptable" argument is dumb..

Those who accuse FA for lack of evidences got a point and rightfully so..

by Senor Penguin Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:33 pm

Doc wrote:
Senor Penguin wrote:<elmystique>So what if the intention wasn't to be hurtful!??!? THIS IS NOT SOUTH AMERICA!1111111111one</elmystique>

I could never tell if you are sarcastic or serious, you have that uncanny writing ability to be both at the same time. While I understand the Juve fan's stance, it's not whether it is hurtful or not as only Suarez would know the context he said "negrito" in. My whole take on it is the FA not using any sort of diplomacy on a matter that has serious implications. If the ban stands, Suarez would forever be known as a racist. Whatever he does now would be over shadowed by the fact he was charged with racist comments. If the ban stands, Liverpool would be seen as a club that "defended racism" because they are doing what any club would do: defending their player.

I apologize for being an ambiguous fool (seriously! Smile

) and I completely agree with everything you said. I was just taking the piss out of El Mystique's constant rehashed nonsense, using your über-rational post as a victim.

by pUsHa Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:33 pm

He deserves it this guy should be baned for life for the things he did in his football career !

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:35 pm

poolsupporter wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

has Suarez denied using "negrito" or shall I get you a box so you can look above the brick wall?

Answer my question before you ask your own.

Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

let me make my pt easy for you.

There was a murder scene and only Mr. X was found on the spot.

Until investigations are concluded, he is guilty until proven otherwise.

Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" and until the FA concludes investigations, he is as at now deserved of the punishment...

What law system are you referring to. Mr. X is a SUSPECT. He is INNOCENT until proven guilty. Casey Anthony, OJ, etc.

Troy Davis.... bounce

by poolsupporter Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:36 pm

elmystique wrote:
poolsupporter wrote:
elmystique wrote:
poolsupporter wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

So technically we can have Johnson come out and say Fergie said something racist to him and we'll have Elm going on for 30 pages about guilty until proven innocent?

how hard is it to understand, Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" so what argument do you have?

Have you completely missed the part where Suarez has insisted that it was a misunderstanding and how he had no intent to racially abuse Evra? He voluntarily admitted to this because he believed there was nothing wrong with what he said. Had he kept quiet about it, there would be no case here. That alone should aid in understanding Suarez's argument and point of view on the matter.

that is the pt. where you miss, racism has no place for the tone or intent with which a word is said, once it was said, we must make an example of the offender as a lesson to others...

It isn't racism though. Hernandez has used the same word while in England. Pacheco has used the same word after being in England for so long. You already commented earlier to the Hernandez situation bringing up context, but that doesn't apply to Suarez?

by elm_baraja_shaman Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:37 pm

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:
elmystique wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Can't believe Evra is walking free after all this

if Evra indeed insulted Suarez's nationality, he must be punished with an 8 match ban as well...

but the thing is Suarez hasn't denied saying he used "negrito" and whether it means pal or not in South America,

this is NOT South America....

he deserves the punishment until proven innocent.... no matter the tone in which he used it...

Do you honestly feel that if someone if accused of something that they should be assumed to be guilty until they prove their innocence. Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss?

has Suarez denied using "negrito" or shall I get you a box so you can look above the brick wall?

Answer my question before you ask your own.

Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

let me make my pt easy for you.

There was a murder scene and only Mr. X was found on the spot.

Until investigations are concluded, he is guilty until proven otherwise.

Suarez hasn't denied using "negrito" and until the FA concludes investigations, he is as at now deserved of the punishment...

So you wont answer the direct question I put to you twice already. Are you refusing to answer it?

Maybe third time lucky. Do you actually believe that people should be assumed guilty until proven innocent? Yes or No.

you can keep going with your superior puppeh motives, I don't know what I can do to make you understand all the examples I have given so chase me around and neg me....

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