If I think he will be the worlds best defender one day what makes u think I will change my mind. Here I have a guy who (no disrespect) hasnt seem him play one match trying to talk me into thinking otherwise

pasquale22 wrote:If I think he will be the worlds best defender one day what makes u think I will change my mind. Here I have a guy who (no disrespect) hasnt seem him play one match trying to talk me into thinking otherwise

Its obvious you wont change your mind about this guys talent. Thats fine.

Lets just say, for arguments sake, that Ive seen every game that he has played for Torino ever. Lets just say, I completely agree with you about how good he is.

His talent is not even the point here. The point is spending 20million of our current budget on a player who is yet to prove his mettle in a big league, when more pressing positions need to be filled. THAT is the issue I have. Its got nothing to do with his current form or how good he 'potentially' can be.

It just doesnt make financial sense at the moment for Juve. Sure if we had ManCity money or Chelsea money or Anzhi money, then sure, we can blow 20m on a calculated risk. But we are Juve.

It seems almost everyone else seems to think similarly about the amount of money - its not like were all stupid. There must be SOME sense behind our thoughts... just think about it.. even if you dont change your mind.

PS: By the way, since your comment about the whole 'baseless assumptins', Ive seen 4 of Torino games this season and Ive got a few more on standby to watch. So yes, I have been watching him. and yes, I can now start making my own judgment after seeing for myself.

pasquale22 wrote:If I think he will be the worlds best defender one day what makes u think I will change my mind. Here I have a guy who (no disrespect) hasnt seem him play one match trying to talk me into thinking otherwise

You don't need to see him play in order to realize that he is not worth 20mil now. No matter the potential he has no defender with such little experience is worth that much. If you would actually drop 20mil on an unproven player like that thats fine i'm just glad you aren't in control of the clubs funds. This guy wouldn't even be a guarantee in our starting lineup

Milan payed 20mil for el shaarawy..... Serie B player

pasquale22 wrote:Milan payed 20mil for el shaarawy..... Serie B player

I could be wrong but I believe that Milan only own 50% of him. Someone should comfirm this. Also, he played on loan at Padova in Serie B for one year, so technically he wasn't really a Serie B player as he was fully owned by Serie A club Genoa at the time.

juve_gigi wrote:

pasquale22 wrote:Milan payed 20mil for el shaarawy..... Serie B player

I could be wrong but I believe that Milan only own 50% of him. Someone should comfirm this. Also, he played on loan at Padova in Serie B for one year, so technically he wasn't really a Serie B player as he was fully owned by Serie A club Genoa at the time.

You're right. According to Goal.com, it's a 50% ownership deal. http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/06/25/2547322/official-stephen-el-shaarawy-completes-ac-milan-transfer

Juventude wrote:

juve_gigi wrote:

pasquale22 wrote:Milan payed 20mil for el shaarawy..... Serie B player

I could be wrong but I believe that Milan only own 50% of him. Someone should comfirm this. Also, he played on loan at Padova in Serie B for one year, so technically he wasn't really a Serie B player as he was fully owned by Serie A club Genoa at the time.

You're right. According to Goal.com, it's a 50% ownership deal. http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/06/25/2547322/official-stephen-el-shaarawy-completes-ac-milan-transfer

Grazie mille...

So they never really paid 20m for him then...

Yes he was owned by genoa but people here are saying why spend big on an unproven player when el shaarawy played serie b last season. Also , look at some of these young players recruited from south america and having millions spent on them. Are they proven? And are their leagues much better then serie b?

pasquale22 wrote:Yes he was owned by genoa but people here are saying why spend big on an unproven player when el shaarawy played serie b last season. Also , look at some of these young players recruited from south america and having millions spent on them. Are they proven? And are their leagues much better then serie b?

Well you can't really compare players like Pato, Neymar, Ganso, etc. to Ogbonna because all the big teams in Europe want those South American players so that is what raises their transfer values to ridiculous levels, becaue of the bdding wars. Also, in general teams will pay more for midfielders and forwards than for defenders, but of course there is always an exception to that rule. Now having said that, if Real Madrid or Barcelona wanted Ogbonna, then yeah he would probably go for 20m for sure, that would be the ony way to justify that price really, if there was a bidding war.

But having said that, I still wouldn't pay 20m for him as a Juve player because he wouldn't even be guaranteed to start right now and we are solid at CB if Chiellini plays there right now. I would just rather spend the money on a top LB or a world class SS. Remember we are working on a limited budget, so 20m spent on Ogbonna means no top players coming at other key positions.

juve_gigi wrote:

pasquale22 wrote:Yes he was owned by genoa but people here are saying why spend big on an unproven player when el shaarawy played serie b last season. Also , look at some of these young players recruited from south america and having millions spent on them. Are they proven? And are their leagues much better then serie b?

Well you can't really compare players like Pato, Neymar, Ganso, etc. to Ogbonna because all the big teams in Europe want those South American players so that is what raises their transfer values to ridiculous levels, becaue of the bdding wars. Also, in general teams will pay more for midfielders and forwards than for defenders, but of course there is always an exception to that rule. Now having said that, if Real Madrid or Barcelona wanted Ogbonna, then yeah he would probably go for 20m for sure, that would be the ony way to justify that price really, if there was a bidding war.

But having said that, I still wouldn't pay 20m for him as a Juve player because he wouldn't even be guaranteed to start right now and we are solid at CB if Chiellini plays there right now. I would just rather spend the money on a top LB or a world class SS. Remember we are working on a limited budget, so 20m spent on Ogbonna means no top players coming at other key positions.

Heck, I'll go as far as to say that 20 million on Ogbonna in January would mean that we wouldn't even spend money on players like Caceres, Montolivo, or Boriello. It makes more sense to fill multiple needs at the moment rather than making a large unnecessary investment.

So your admitting Ogbonna could go for 20mil? Which is what I'm saying lol.

pasquale22 wrote:So your admitting Ogbonna could go for 20mil? Which is what I'm saying lol.

We will only know the answer to that question if and when he is sold. Until then, it's all speculation at this point. I don't think that there is an appetite by teams to spend that much on a younger player in the January window, but I could be wrong. I do know that there does not seem to be a queue forming to make offers for him.

^ huh? He's received offers from all over Europe. As sciacca also said. It's just he said he wants to get Torino promoted then move. Hence why he didnt leave in the summer and why he won't leave in Jan. He's happy at toro right now but I'm sure next summer he'll either stay a season with them in serie a or move somewhere else . Apparantly city, Liverpool, real are interested

Yet no one has met Torino's asking price and for a reason

Allow this Ogbonna breh...we need to go for Armero in the summer...beast of a LWB/LB! :shisha:

Luca wrote:Yet no one has met Torino's asking price and for a reason

standard! :shisha:

Luca wrote:Yet no one has met Torino's asking price and for a reason

Read above. And why would they sell their best player when they want to make promotion? I also said at the start toro is a team that heavily rely on individuals, not so much a complete squad. Ogbonna is vital for them. They don't want to let him go yet

Which is precisely why they want 20M
I can promise you that none of the clubs you listed went willing to meet that price.

Not to mention if you believe your own theory about Torino being unwilling to sell then why make this thread with a 20M cost.

Read my opening comment. This wasnt meant to be a Ogbonna to Juve thread. People turned it into that. I'm saying I'd like Him at Juve and I'd pay 20mil but that wasn't what this thread was for

So you'd pay 20M knowing that 20M wouldn't even be enough to buy him because Torino considers him 'un-sellable'

I'm glad we cleared this up

Let's just agree to disagree. Luca, it's 9am, I've had 3 hours sleep thanks to fricken juve starting at 3.45am and all this serie a entertainment today keeping me awake I'm dead tired. Lol

Haha I'm just giving you a hard time
That is pretty ridiculous (time of games)

Take it easy

pasquale22 wrote:So your admitting Ogbonna could go for 20mil? Which is what I'm saying lol.

Well of course if Real Madrid wanted to pay that then yes he could be sold for 20m. But that doesn't necessarily mean he is worth 20m. We paid 12m for Martinez, is he worth 12m?? We paid 25m for Amauri, was he worth that much??

Great point Pino, the likes of Bonucci was bought for 15.5m so why can't a player like Ogbonna not be valued at that.

Jokers :shisha:

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:Great point Pino, the likes of Bonucci was bought for 15.5m so why can't a player like Ogbonna not be valued at that.

And look at how the Bonucci transfer turned out. He was a big mistake at that price in my eyes. And we haven't even touched on him costing us Criscito as well.
Ogbonna will not be valued at that because he has not proven enough yet to be sold that high. Do you really think Torino wouldn't jump at a 20mil offer right now. Do you know how much money that is for a club like that? At least Amauri was scoring in Serie A to give him that price tag...and Martinez was one of Catania's top players but I wouldn't have paid over 6 or 7mil for him. Ogbonna's price tag is inflated for a reason. The little teams need to make money too. If Ogbonna is a success in Serie A his price can rise but if not what happens?