Do you think the game lacks good defenders?

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Do you think the game lacks good defenders? Empty Do you think the game lacks good defenders?

Post by zarola Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:25 am

In a Nesta vs. Barcelona video, the top rated comment is:

This and Messi vs Javier Zanetti proves beyond a shadow of doubt that Messi sucks! Nest and Zanetti are the last true defenders left in the game - today's centre backs are so bad its painful to watch. Back when Nesta was in his prime along with other defenders like the De Boers, Maldini and Canavaro stood against the strikers. I have only ever seen two players own Nesta - Zidane and R9. Even CR failed against 'sandro'! Im an Inter fan but respect to all great Italian defenders like Nesta!
aasimazam 1 week ago 9

Obviously this is a tad bit exaggerated, because Messi obviously doesn't suck. I don't want this to be a comparison of messi vs. ronaldo or barca vs. real Madrid. my question is simple: do you think the quality of defenders has declined and thus made modern strikers look better than they are?

I can certainly say this is true about fullbacks, I can think of good ones but can't even name a current great besides zanetti who doesn't even play there much anymore. As for CBs, speaking from Italy's perspective I would agree that our CB quality has declined but I didn't watch many other countries when I was little so I can't compare.
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Post by Luca Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:28 am

I think the sport has become more attack friendly then in previous years.

Also, that guy can add Montella to the list of names that raped Nesta :dance:

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Post by The Verminator Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:49 am

Well if people dont know what to say on this subject, just think abouth the defence line your team had ten years ago and compare it with the defence line of your team today. won't get involved though, because i wasnt watching football back in those days.
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Post by red&blacklegion Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:59 am

Tassoti-Baresi-Costacurta-Maldini! :king: Nesta has the DNA in him,Silva is a monster of a defender but Nesta is something else!
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Post by zizzle Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:10 am

The guy has a point. Defenders like Nesta and Zanetti are a dying breed but back in th day you could at least name a handfull of defenders who would at least match them in terms of quality and its funny that people call Messi and Ronaldo GOAT when they struggle againsts the older version of last decade's defenders while guys like R9 and Zidane had to deal with their likes week in week out

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Post by Adit Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:12 am

No it hasnt.

Those "back in the day " phenomenon is often used to discredit current players.

Pique,Ramos,pepe,Rami,Sakho,Vermalene,Verongtoen,Ruiz,TS,DL,Chiellini,Varane,Smalling...etc etc are excellent and high potential players.

Also dont forget the tactics used back in the days made it much easier for defenders while now days teams are more attacking minded means defenders gets less protection.We all saw how a WC hero cannavaro struggled with a very attacking minded Real madrid who barely gave a shet about defending.Defending deep with 3 midfielder ahead in a counter attacking game is always easier than playing in a pressing high line in a possession oriented game.

Though i do think serie a doesnt have the defenders once they had,say 10 years ago but its just not defenders they also faced a huge declination in attacking talents also.
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Post by Geo Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:26 am

Do you think the game lacks good defenders?
No
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Post by Swanhends Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:37 am

I do
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Post by justdoit_ Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:43 am

Glossing over and glamorization of the past, in my opinion.

The D is fine these days.
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Post by Albiceleste Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:52 am

:facepalm: messi had no problems with Roberto carlos and cannavaro when he was younger

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Post by Luca Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:54 am

So, by inference;
Older generations just lacked Lionel Messi :dance:

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Post by FootballFan92 Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:59 am

yeah, i cant see many world class defenders coming through in the next few years.
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Post by chaval Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:49 am

Zanetti, even at his age, is a wall in defense
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Post by rwo power Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:34 am

Well, the point is good defenders. Problem is that refereeing favours the attackers more and more and it is steadily more difficult for defenders to do their job cleanly. The defenders of the past could just tackle them hard with or without the ball and they rarely got booked. Nowadays even slight contact might get the defender carded, so that job got harder. On of the cleanest tacklers in Germany is Philipp Lahm, for example and even he seems to have gotten more difficulties recently.
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Post by billionmillion Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:54 am

again nostalgia by serie a fans. messi owned all those old defenders cannavaro nesta carlos viera zanetti. take a look

at 7:15 he owns nesta and another 2 players



Messi owns nesta and others



and in first leg nesta got yellow because messi owned him and he pulled his shirt. how many times messi needs to own nesta?

And your other heroes cannavaro and r.carlos. little magican owned them too




and no not only r9 and zidane owned nesta cannavaro and others. too many players owned them, stop living with nostalgia back to real life
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:02 am

Rwo has an excellent point about the way refereeing has changed, whilst there are notable challenges you can point to in the modern game which have been ignored such as by De Jonh, as a general rule you can't casually murder your opponent then walk away pretending nothing happened.

Taking the classic case of the man marking of Maradona by Italy, the game is an excellent example not simply because of the way a single player was dealt with, but the physical nature of the defensive phase from both sides - Maradona being the focal point, his treatment is often singled out.

A combination of greater exposure of the game to review through technology and an increase in concern for player welfare means that players are far more protected than they used to be. The modern defender can not afford the level of cynicality in a tackle employed by past greats.

It should also be noted that the likes of Baresi, Beckenbauer and Scirea are still renowned for their elegant nature as defenders. The recollection of the past is not simply of hardmen such as Gentile, but equally of cultured defenders. The past however, is definitely sheltered by nostalgia and the passage of time which clouds over issues such as consistency.

I don't believe the game lacks good defenders, however the very best in the world are not as proficient as the best of the past, I will stand by that comment. I think it's also worth distinguishing between fullbacks and central defenders in the discussion, as the lack of quality left backs in general is appalling.
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:06 am

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

BM

Nesta is 35. If you can't comprehend the simple fact that he is not what he used to be, certainly after having suffered so many injuries as well, then don't even bother, you're embarassing yourself. In the other video you posted, Roberto Carlos and Fabio Cannavaro are 33 years old.

Could Messi have beaten them when they were in their prime? Quite probably, however it doesn't make them lesser defenders at all, Messi is an absolute freak. It doesn't change the fact that posting a youtube video of a single game is a juvenile argument in this context.
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Post by Ganso Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:07 am

Yep,most of the lbs suck ATM.the only solid ones who can attack and defend just as good that I've seen are Lahm,enrique and Alex sandro.
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Post by billionmillion Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:21 am

dostoevsky wrote: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

BM

Nesta is 35. If you can't comprehend the simple fact that he is not what he used to be, certainly after having suffered so many injuries as well, then don't even bother, you're embarassing yourself. In the other video you posted, Roberto Carlos and Fabio Cannavaro are 33 years old.

Could Messi have beaten them when they were in their prime? Quite probably, however it doesn't make them lesser defenders at all, Messi is an absolute freak. It doesn't change the fact that posting a youtube video of a single game is a juvenile argument in this context.
In embarrassing thread i need to be embarrassing. OP embarrassing himself by saying if messi can not beat nesta and cannavaro then they are legend defenders. and i showed how messi beat them
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Post by dostoevsky Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:28 am

He quoted a youtube comment, stated he didn't agree with it in its entirety but wanted to use it as a springboard for a discussion about defending in general.

So next time, actually read the opening post, rather than claim he is embarrassing himself because you saw Messi mentioned and felt the ridiculous urge to defend him.

Back on topic now.
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Post by billionmillion Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:44 am

i actually was going to reply to zizzle. by mistake i mentioned zarola yeah zizzle told this not zarola. but who cares they are both inter fans with similar usernames
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Post by alexjanosik Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:55 am

I am sorry but exactly what did Nesta do against Messi?
One good tackle.
Other than that Messi toyed with him and the entire Milan defense over the 2 legs.
In the first leg he ghosted past the entire Milan defense to set up Pedro.
Skinned Nesta so much that he had to resort to cynical fouling and shirt pulling,from one of the resulting freekicks Messi hit the post.
In the second leg at the San Siro he was unstoppable especially in the first half.Skinned Nesta with ease.The entire Milan defense just had no clue.

Nesta had one good tackle.Enough with the hyping.

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Post by dostoevsky Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:00 am

Everyone back on topic.
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Post by alexjanosik Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:03 am

On topic its a case of glorifying the past.
There are just as many good defenders in the game today as there were 10 years ago.

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Post by dostoevsky Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:29 am

It's difficult to split defenders into generations, as we can have defenders seemingly caught in between decades, such as considering Puyol ten years ago and now, either side of his prime.

If we go back roughly ten years ago, around the time of the 2002 World Cup, we're discussing the likes of List A, posted below. These names are at various stages in their career, some on their last ebb, others just beginning to rise, however in a way it's good to compare to List B, contemporary defenders, who range from their last years or those just beginning their journey.

In no particular order:

List A: Stam, Ayala, Hyppia, Aldair, Nesta, Cannavaro, Thuram, Hierro, Campbell, De Boer, Marquez, Puyol, Lucio

Maldini, Zanetti, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Lizarazu, Sagnol, Zambrotta

List B: Vidic, Pique, Puyol, Chiellini, Thiago Silva, Hummels, Pepe, Kompany, Nesta, Terry, Samuel, Subotic, Sahko.

Lahm, Dani Alves, Sagna, Cole, Marcelo, Abidal.

I'm certain I've forgotten names, however off the top of my head, I believe the very best were of a higher standard, however in general very competent defenders do still grace the modern game. I was generous with some of the names on these lists, in order to illustrate depth and try and avoid personal bias, however I'm certain there are gaping holes in List A, I'm a bit tired though, so any help is welcomed.
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