Chelsea's Defensive Setup

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Post by Abramovich Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:43 pm

RealGunner wrote:Cahill will go to chelsea, i have a feeling

Said that to mate earlier too ☀

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Post by Ganso Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:19 pm

EarlyPrototype wrote:Chelmeh.
that was terrible lol

Chelsea's defense was just fine until AVB came in.Luiz-Terry-Cole were solid under Carlo.
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Post by LeVersacci Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:35 pm

I really would not 1-2 be a Chelsea fan right now...
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Post by S32TABLANCA Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:11 pm

And on the left, we see the Chelsea section...
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Post by Guest Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:14 pm

Saetablanca wrote:And on the left, we see the Chelsea section...

Says the RM fan :facepalm:

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Post by S32TABLANCA Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:19 pm

Sepi wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:And on the left, we see the Chelsea section...

Says the RM fan :facepalm:

Generalisations FTW!

Did I ever make a thread about something Real Madrid related that should have gone in our section? Please bring up the quotes. Or am I now responsible for anything the other Madridistas do? Not everybody is like you ya know, filling the GS with EPL threads all the time. Rolling Eyes
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Post by Guest Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:24 pm

Saetablanca wrote:
Sepi wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:And on the left, we see the Chelsea section...

Says the RM fan :facepalm:

Generalisations FTW!

Did I ever make a thread about something Real Madrid related that should have gone in our section? Please bring up the quotes. Or am I now responsible for anything the other Madridistas do? Not everybody is like you ya know, filling the GS with EPL threads all the time. Rolling Eyes

You can't even spell our league right bounce

and ya, Casillas save got his own thread....while Pepe's didn't. Now, who is filling GS with their own club crap ? Rolling Eyes

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Post by S32TABLANCA Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:35 pm

Sepi wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:
Sepi wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:And on the left, we see the Chelsea section...

Says the RM fan :facepalm:

Generalisations FTW!

Did I ever make a thread about something Real Madrid related that should have gone in our section? Please bring up the quotes. Or am I now responsible for anything the other Madridistas do? Not everybody is like you ya know, filling the GS with EPL threads all the time. Rolling Eyes

You can't even spell our league right bounce

and ya, Casillas save got his own thread....while Pepe's didn't. Now, who is filling GS with their own club crap ? Rolling Eyes

Ooh, its BPL instead is it. I wouldnt get into that argument as looking at your country I almost certainly have better English than you.

Madrid fans post a lot of crap. And do a lot of stupid things. But that doesnt mean I do it too, so go whine to someone else about Madrid fans and their threads. Point is, generalisations are stupid and this thread should be in the Chelsea section. Very Happy
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Post by RedOranje Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:48 pm

Enough.


Could see Chelsea going after Vertonghen in January.
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Post by LeSwagg James Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:14 pm

Maybe I'm missing something since I don't watch Chelsea regularly but I have to say .. Carlito > AVB

Winning the double in your first year should save you from the sack in the next in my opinion, its not like they missed the top 4 or anything..

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Post by The Franchise Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:17 am

jibers wrote:Chelsea played good football but the team don't press in the same phase, when two players press others drop deep leaving behind stupidly large gaps for opponents. Chelseas flanks have been brutally exposed.


This.

Everyone seems to be blaming individuals and the gameplan, but there is not that much wrong with either.

Too many players reacting late when they should be up high, too many just not aware of situations to press. Chelsea´s players are not adapting to this as quickly as Porto´s did.

I think going forward, a change to 4231 is the way to go. At least if players are not pressing, you have an attacking cutting edge with Mata in between the lines. So many more touches in the 2nd half when they changed to it.

Yes, Terry isnt good in the high line and yes Cole seems to be losing some of his edge, but if the entire team isnt doing its job then they will never get the protection they need.

Rolando is slow and Fucile is terrible, but they didnt get exposed this much because the team knew where to be and when.
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Post by Zealous Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:30 am

Pressing is a lot safer and easier to do in a 4-2-3-1 than in a 4-3-3 albeit less effective.
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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:33 am

Stop bringing up Carlo. He doesn't have anything to do with Chelsea anymore.

Also we do not need to buy defenders (especially average ones like Cahill) because we already have 20 year old Bruma at HSV. He’s an exceptional passer and good on the ball, and closes down passing lanes very well and rarely letting runs get in behind him. Perfectly suited for the high line. He has been in the Hamburg starting 11 for quite some time now and by the end of the season hopefully he'll have enough experience to be starting for us. We also have Kalas but he's only 18 and requires time, although currently he's beasting with Vitesse.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:39 am

Agree Zeal.

I also dont get why anyone is bringing Carlo into it, did that loooooong streak of not winning get forgotten so easily?
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:41 am

Saetablanca wrote:
Sepi wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:
Sepi wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:And on the left, we see the Chelsea section...

Says the RM fan Chelsea's Defensive Setup - Page 2 1625187496

Generalisations FTW!

Did I ever make a thread about something Real Madrid related that should have gone in our section? Please bring up the quotes. Or am I now responsible for anything the other Madridistas do? Not everybody is like you ya know, filling the GS with EPL threads all the time. Rolling Eyes

You can't even spell our league right bounce

and ya, Casillas save got his own thread....while Pepe's didn't. Now, who is filling GS with their own club crap ? Rolling Eyes

Ooh, its BPL instead is it. I wouldnt get into that argument as looking at your country I almost certainly have better English than you.

Madrid fans post a lot of crap. And do a lot of stupid things. But that doesn't mean I do it too, so go whine to someone else about Madrid fans and their threads. Point is, generalisations are stupid and this thread should be in the Chelsea section. Very Happy

Ignorance at its best, anyone who have been here for while knows Sepi is an English speaker, and that he is currently living in Toronto, and that he used to be in England at some point in his life.

Anyone would also notice his sudden fixation on Scandinavian women and Denmark hence the Danish flag.

I would like to see you go into a RM exclusive thread in the GS and tell them to shove it to the RM section, but you won't. Not that RM exclusive or any club exclusive threads don't deserve to be in the GS, for one thing, this thread does.

Because;
1- Chelsea is a CL contender, other teams might be interested on their defensive woes.
2- Chelsea is a PL contender, other teams are interested on their defensive woes.
3- Their defensive woes are a matter of interesting tactical debate.
4- Chelsae's defensive woes are something to console their fans about.
5- The mods are doing their jobs, and any topic they think should not be in the GS, they would move.

So, with all due respect, :arrow:
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Post by jibers Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:43 am

english_jewel wrote:Stop bringing up Carlo. He doesn't have anything to do with Chelsea anymore.

Also we do not need to buy defenders (especially average ones like Cahill) because we already have 20 year old Bruma at HSV. He’s an exceptional passer and good on the ball, and closes down passing lanes very well and rarely letting runs get in behind him. Perfectly suited for the high line. He has been in the Hamburg starting 11 for quite some time now and by the end of the season hopefully he'll have enough experience to be starting for us. We also have Kalas but he's only 18 and requires time, although currently he's beasting with Vitesse.

I understand what you mean Jewel, but befoe you think of getting new defenders, your attackers need to be sorted out. Even if Beckenbasuer and Baresi were at cb today CHelsea would have conceded simply because the back four were too exposed. Whenever a couple of players pressed, those around them dropped deeper instead of covering space. You don't need pace to be able to press efectively, Xavi, Iniesta, alonso hell even pique press well but non of the are quick. Porto players weren't rapid either. AVB has work on his hands. It's going to be no easy task, trying to teach 30+ year old players from dropping deep when without the ball. The two main things about pressing and possession since teams starting using it are when without the ball make the space compact and when with the ball make the pitch as wide as possible. Chelsea failed the first point miseravly, there were too much space when pressing and Liverpool found space behind your player relatively easily. Also Your team is used to playing a #9 who holds up play and and brings others into play, AVB clearly wants your players to run in to space which is why Sturridge seems to be the only attacker doing okay. When passing as well your team couldn't get a rythm going due to the amount of space between each player, some where miles apart some where close by, and the decision making was poor, no movement whatsoever. Your flanks were exposed on multiple occasion, Malouda and cole had massive space inbetween them so whenever Chelsea pressed high up your flanks were easier to bypass, Malouda was woeful today, exposed Cole topo many times. I hope Roman gives AVB some time though, because it will take a long time to implement theses thing, let's see whether you can truly teach and old dog new tricks.
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:43 am

I think people are starting to realize it's not easy to play with a high defensive line.

Some of us La Liga fans have been saying for a while you need certain types of defenders to play like that and not everyone can. This is part of the reason Dmytro Chygrynskiy was such a flop for us.

I blame AVB for being stubborn and playing that way when it's painfully obvious they don't have the players for it.

IMO they have great defensive players that form a great unit but you just need to play them in the system there used to and have shown to be world class in, it's not that hard of a concept.
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Post by Guest Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:44 am

^
Very Happy, Nice 1.

btw, I have Danish flag on, b/c I am going to live in Denmark from January. Getting warmed up Wink

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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:47 am

The Franchise wrote:Agree Zeal.

I also dont get why anyone is bringing Carlo into it, did that loooooong streak of not winning get forgotten so easily?

Carlo is as guilty of Chelsae's loooooong draw streak as AVB is guilty of this predicament, which is to say none. Some say Carlo did not have "faith" in youngsters, but the fact is he saw them in training every time and he would have played them if they deserved to be played. Now at AVB time we see how the team is becoming complacent and unorganized.

What Chelsea needed and still needs is stability, Carlo was cheaper than AVB and by kicking him out to pursue "another project" Chelsea is not exactly being stable. Now, if Abramovitch's words are to be trusted, AVB will indeed be their long term project. Ironically, even Scolari had better results this far in the season. I am not saying AVB should be sacked, just wondering how long will the axe be held.

Regardless, Chelsea's problems strongly mirror Inter's. The old guard are irreplaceable but they are eroding fast, and while some of the young ones are stepping up, not all are.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:49 am

dnmac4 wrote:I think people are starting to realize it's not easy to play with a high defensive line.

Some of us La Liga fans have been saying for a while you need certain types of defenders to play like that and not everyone can. This is part of the reason Dmytro Chygrynskiy was such a flop for us.

I blame AVB for being stubborn and playing that way when it's painfully obvious they don't have the players for it.

IMO they have great defensive players that form a great unit but you just need to play them in the system there used to and have shown to be world class in, it's not that hard of a concept.

But at the same time, you saw last season that they struggled in a more normal line or a deep line. Chelsea didnt have prime Essien, Makelele and Ballack...they had Mikel, Ramieres and finished Essien.

AVB is trying to change the entire set up and I think thats wise long term for Chelsea. The players right now arent the best fit for it, but thats why you have a long term plan and AVB must be given the time to put in the players he wants for it.

Didnt quote your post because I am in a huge disagrement with what you said but I think it should be said ABV isnt doing something long term here. Or trying to at least.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:51 am

Note to Chelsea fans.......

From every Newcastle fan alive, please keep the defence as it is until after you played us in a couple weeks.....

Your's Sincerely,

Mole.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:53 am

Lord Spencer wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Agree Zeal.

I also dont get why anyone is bringing Carlo into it, did that loooooong streak of not winning get forgotten so easily?

Carlo is as guilty of Chelsae's loooooong draw streak as AVB is guilty of this predicament, which is to say none. Some say Carlo did not have "faith" in youngsters, but the fact is he saw them in training every time and he would have played them if they deserved to be played. Now at AVB time we see how the team is becoming complacent and unorganized.

What Chelsea needed and still needs is stability, Carlo was cheaper than AVB and by kicking him out to pursue "another project" Chelsea is not exactly being stable. Now, if Abramovitch's words are to be trusted, AVB will indeed be their long term project. Ironically, even Scolari had better results this far in the season. I am not saying AVB should be sacked, just wondering how long will the axe be held.

Regardless, Chelsea's problems strongly mirror Inter's. The old guard are irreplaceable but they are eroding fast, and while some of the young ones are stepping up, not all are.

But what predictament are Chelsea in right now? Its nothing that severe.

If your starting a new project, Carlo really isnt the guy I would think of. Maybe he was simply bought in to try and get some more juice out of the old guys, something he has done before.

AVB is young, has a new age aproach and is clearly someone suited to starting a new project.

If Chelsea sack him, then I dont get it. But getting rid of Carlo, I did get.
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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:01 am

jibers wrote:
english_jewel wrote:Stop bringing up Carlo. He doesn't have anything to do with Chelsea anymore.

Also we do not need to buy defenders (especially average ones like Cahill) because we already have 20 year old Bruma at HSV. He’s an exceptional passer and good on the ball, and closes down passing lanes very well and rarely letting runs get in behind him. Perfectly suited for the high line. He has been in the Hamburg starting 11 for quite some time now and by the end of the season hopefully he'll have enough experience to be starting for us. We also have Kalas but he's only 18 and requires time, although currently he's beasting with Vitesse.

I understand what you mean Jewel, but befoe you think of getting new defenders, your attackers need to be sorted out. Even if Beckenbasuer and Baresi were at cb today CHelsea would have conceded simply because the back four were too exposed. Whenever a couple of players pressed, those around them dropped deeper instead of covering space. You don't need pace to be able to press efectively, Xavi, Iniesta, alonso hell even pique press well but non of the are quick. Porto players weren't rapid either. AVB has work on his hands. It's going to be no easy task, trying to teach 30+ year old players from dropping deep when without the ball. The two main things about pressing and possession since teams starting using it are when without the ball make the space compact and when with the ball make the pitch as wide as possible. Chelsea failed the first point miseravly, there were too much space when pressing and Liverpool found space behind your player relatively easily. Also Your team is used to playing a #9 who holds up play and and brings others into play, AVB clearly wants your players to run in to space which is why Sturridge seems to be the only attacker doing okay. When passing as well your team couldn't get a rythm going due to the amount of space between each player, some where miles apart some where close by, and the decision making was poor, no movement whatsoever. Your flanks were exposed on multiple occasion, Malouda and cole had massive space inbetween them so whenever Chelsea pressed high up your flanks were easier to bypass, Malouda was woeful today, exposed Cole topo many times. I hope Roman gives AVB some time though, because it will take a long time to implement theses thing, let's see whether you can truly teach and old dog new tricks.

I agree, we need new and young players who understand the system of passing. Playing a midfield of Lampard-Mikel-Ramires and try to implement these tactics is never going to work. And the thing is, I don't think trying to make the older players utilize this system to the best of abilities is going to work because they have never used this kind of football before. This is why it's important that we start bringing in the younger and probably more suited players into the squad, but the thing is they are all at different stages of development and we can't just put them all together ASAP. Sturridge got in when his time came, but unfortunately his game isn't about passing; he's the guy who would finish off intricate passing rythms rather than get involved in them. This is why he isn't working to the best of his abilities either. As I already said, we have young players like McEachran (would have been much better had we risked loaning him when we were not sure whether we would be able to sign a midfielder), Bruma, Romeu, Aanholt who would be much more suited to this and actually help the squad, especially the first three. The thing is, we would not be able to see them until next season (Mceachran needs a loan, Bruma's and Aanholt's expires by the end of the season). However, this does not mean that we can't sign someone who can actually pass in the meantime, which was also probably why Villas-Boas wanted Modric so badly. It also won't hurt to try to change the system a bit so that we don't keep losing, and try to implement again when we have players suited to it.

As unpredictable as Roman is, I'm pretty sure this season won't be much looked into unless we fail to finish in the Top 4 or never regain form until the manager loses the backing of the squad. The club has a long term plan which involves buying youngsters and developing them into the starting 11 as Villas-Boas pointed to: "I have said we have set out to build something new at this club and the club is committed to what we are building for the future." That quote also shows that the club approves of Villas-Boas's new system and wants that type of football implemented into the club. The only problem is we would only be able to teach this to the younger players as they can start out fresh, but the older players are continually going to have difficulty with this system.


Last edited by english_jewel on Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Lord Spencer Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:04 am

The Franchise wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Agree Zeal.

I also dont get why anyone is bringing Carlo into it, did that loooooong streak of not winning get forgotten so easily?

Carlo is as guilty of Chelsae's loooooong draw streak as AVB is guilty of this predicament, which is to say none. Some say Carlo did not have "faith" in youngsters, but the fact is he saw them in training every time and he would have played them if they deserved to be played. Now at AVB time we see how the team is becoming complacent and unorganized.

What Chelsea needed and still needs is stability, Carlo was cheaper than AVB and by kicking him out to pursue "another project" Chelsea is not exactly being stable. Now, if Abramovitch's words are to be trusted, AVB will indeed be their long term project. Ironically, even Scolari had better results this far in the season. I am not saying AVB should be sacked, just wondering how long will the axe be held.

Regardless, Chelsea's problems strongly mirror Inter's. The old guard are irreplaceable but they are eroding fast, and while some of the young ones are stepping up, not all are.

But what predictament are Chelsea in right now? Its nothing that severe.

If your starting a new project, Carlo really isnt the guy I would think of. Maybe he was simply bought in to try and get some more juice out of the old guys, something he has done before.

AVB is young, has a new age aproach and is clearly someone suited to starting a new project.

If Chelsea sack him, then I dont get it. But getting rid of Carlo, I did get.

You are thinking about it logically, not in the revolving door mentality Abramovitch thinks in.

Fact is Carlo is not only about stabilizing a ship, in Chelsea he was asked to do that and only that. He never was given license to change things. People forget Carlo was the one who built the 2003-2007 Milan which was just simply great. He did not take at as it is, he changed and tweaked in that formula and then stuck with it. He asked for Pirlo and was not given enough funds for him, asked for Kaka and did not get enough funds for him, asked for Pato and did not get enough funds for him.

This time in both Scolari's and Carlo's tenures, Chelsea was first in the table. Now they are 12 points off the mark, and looking at their competition, CL place is the best they are going to get this season. I agree that if Chelsea are serious about their long term chances, then they should stick it out with AVB. But I a disagree about your assessment of Carlo, he made a huge team once with minimal spending. He could have done it again given the license to do so, but Abramovitch interfered too many times first firing his assistant and then buying Torres and forcing him to be played.
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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:09 am

Again, please stop bringing up Carlo people. We have had too many debates on that (and from what I have learned people aren't going to change opinions) and really has nothing to do with Chelsea's defensive system.

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Post by S32TABLANCA Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:40 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:
Sepi wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:
Sepi wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:And on the left, we see the Chelsea section...

Says the RM fan Chelsea's Defensive Setup - Page 2 1625187496

Generalisations FTW!

Did I ever make a thread about something Real Madrid related that should have gone in our section? Please bring up the quotes. Or am I now responsible for anything the other Madridistas do? Not everybody is like you ya know, filling the GS with EPL threads all the time. Rolling Eyes

You can't even spell our league right bounce

and ya, Casillas save got his own thread....while Pepe's didn't. Now, who is filling GS with their own club crap ? Rolling Eyes

Ooh, its BPL instead is it. I wouldnt get into that argument as looking at your country I almost certainly have better English than you.

Madrid fans post a lot of crap. And do a lot of stupid things. But that doesn't mean I do it too, so go whine to someone else about Madrid fans and their threads. Point is, generalisations are stupid and this thread should be in the Chelsea section. Very Happy

Ignorance at its best, anyone who have been here for while knows Sepi is an English speaker, and that he is currently living in Toronto, and that he used to be in England at some point in his life.

Anyone would also notice his sudden fixation on Scandinavian women and Denmark hence the Danish flag.

I would like to see you go into a RM exclusive thread in the GS and tell them to shove it to the RM section, but you won't. Not that RM exclusive or any club exclusive threads don't deserve to be in the GS, for one thing, this thread does.

Because;
1- Chelsea is a CL contender, other teams might be interested on their defensive woes.
2- Chelsea is a PL contender, other teams are interested on their defensive woes.
3- Their defensive woes are a matter of interesting tactical debate.
4- Chelsae's defensive woes are something to console their fans about.
5- The mods are doing their jobs, and any topic they think should not be in the GS, they would move.

So, with all due respect, :arrow:

Excuse me for not knowing the nationalities of every member, I can only tell from the flags. If people choose to put different flags, they give the impression that they are from different countries. How do you want me to know about his love for Danish women, Im not his brother lol. Anyway, because I am not 'ignorant at best', that why I put 'almost certainly'. (Id like to think that my English is bloody good anyway, but that doesn't really matter Very Happy ).

I don't see why you would console a Chelsea fan with their defensive woes, but our threads always get all those 'RM section' kind of comments which is why I responded in a non serious manner. I only get annoyed when people insult personally like you cant spell or you are ignorant.

So, with all due respect, kindly do not get into stuff which doesn't involve you and have a nice day.
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