Re: Xabi Alonso

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:43 am

punkfusion1992 wrote:honestly I think Alonso should be in the national team just based on form
he has been one of laliga's best players

but ofcourse im gonna be called delusional by everyone else

Nope my point is that for everyone to be played in thier rightful position 4-3-3 should be played.......

And iam of the believe you pick the players the fit the system the best not cram the best players althogher like its a game of Fifa.......

Alonso cant play DM we have pretty much established that so Busquets should be the DM as thats what he is, not picking a better player in a position that he cant perfom very well in it would be like playing Xavi as DM.....

Atm Spain are playign 4-2-3-1 purely to fit Alonso in and at that same time forcing Xavi and Iniesta out of position.

I dont understand how hard is this to understand, i dont hate Alonso and i dont think Busquets is a better player just a better fit for a DM while allowing the best 2 players to be play in thier normal positions instead of where they are now.

Unbelievable how many times i have had to explain myself.

by Guiltybystander Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:56 am

dnmac4 wrote:"Lately, Alonso has been the playmaker for Spain, and I think that in the games where Del Bosque has played Alonso/Silva, Spain has played its most exciting, effective football. "

I just don't know where your getting this? They won the World Cup and Euro's for the first time in there history and went on the longest winning streak in the history of international football doing it the other way.

I just don't know how in the world you could say that, please explain?

Well, personally I thought Alonso actually had more impact during the WC than Xavi had, but that is very controversial and I will not get into that again.

Anyway, when I talk about recently I mean in friendlies/qualifiers since basically the spring: Xavi has been off form, that has to be admitted. He has been great in certain high profile matches like the CL final, but in general, he hasn't been the old Xavi. Both today, and against England Xavi was very mediocre. Alonso was much better against England than Xavi was. Barcelona itself has been off form (Iniesta is always a god though, can't argue about that), so maybe it WOULD be a plan to play Alonso/Silva duo for once and not Xavi and Iniesta simply because they are the big shots. Alonso and Silva are both in the top 3 in the world in their respective positions and are both in top top form. It worked amazingly well against the USA. Was also nice to see Spain score for once.

by Körbl Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:16 am

Guiltybystander wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:"Lately, Alonso has been the playmaker for Spain, and I think that in the games where Del Bosque has played Alonso/Silva, Spain has played its most exciting, effective football. "

I just don't know where your getting this? They won the World Cup and Euro's for the first time in there history and went on the longest winning streak in the history of international football doing it the other way.

I just don't know how in the world you could say that, please explain?

Well, personally I thought Alonso actually had more impact during the WC than Xavi had, but that is very controversial and I will not get into that again.

Anyway, when I talk about recently I mean in friendlies/qualifiers since basically the spring: Xavi has been off form, that has to be admitted. He has been great in certain high profile matches like the CL final, but in general, he hasn't been the old Xavi. Both today, and against England Xavi was very mediocre. Alonso was much better against England than Xavi was. Barcelona itself has been off form (Iniesta is always a god though, can't argue about that), so maybe it WOULD be a plan to play Alonso/Silva duo for once and not Xavi and Iniesta simply because they are the big shots. Alonso and Silva are both in the top 3 in the world in their respective positions and are both in top top form. It worked amazingly well against the USA. Was also nice to see Spain score for once.

I agree with you, Xavi has not been otherworldly of late. If Xabi is the same Xabi that was in the England game he should be starting though not as a lone DM. The issue I'm having is for Xabi to play I thought at first we could simply drop Busquets but its now obvious Xabi can't handle the defensive job by himself. I don't know where to place him though that won't cause too much controversies -.-

by Le Samourai Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:51 am

I don't understand why people think Xavi can't play as a CAM.Every one of his greatest Spain performances has come from that position or the Free role he was given in the WC.People are insistent that he has to be in the CM role.

People can drop the Xabi in Xavi out talk right now. If that's what it comes down to then Alonso will get benched without a doubt.

Me and The Franchise had a long discussion as to why

Xavi.........Xabi will not work- essentially because Alonso will always drop deep and leave Xavi without a passing option to his left.

Personally- for me it's a decision that's far off. So much can change by the time the Euro's roll around and Del Bosque will likely try to put the players on the field who are most compatible with each other.

For example a Martinez...Xabi double pivot will work in a very similar fashion to the Khedira...Xabi pivot.Many may dismiss it ....but it for me is a real pssibilty. Then Xavi plays CAM - Iniesta plays LAM and Silva plays RAM.

This is simply an alternative though as it isn't proven, something the current Barca midfield has the priveline of being- although it isn't tested as much as Spain's midfield due to their overwhelming coherence.of style. Essentially Barca lite is not what I want Spain to be , but it may be the best option.

Work's out great really - Xabi get's potentially another Euro - dosen't exhaust himself - come's back to Real Madrid self actualized and not toast.Win/Win. :dance:

by Dnmac4 Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:41 am

Guiltybystander wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:"Lately, Alonso has been the playmaker for Spain, and I think that in the games where Del Bosque has played Alonso/Silva, Spain has played its most exciting, effective football. "

I just don't know where your getting this? They won the World Cup and Euro's for the first time in there history and went on the longest winning streak in the history of international football doing it the other way.

I just don't know how in the world you could say that, please explain?

Well, personally I thought Alonso actually had more impact during the WC than Xavi had, but that is very controversial and I will not get into that again.

Anyway, when I talk about recently I mean in friendlies/qualifiers since basically the spring: Xavi has been off form, that has to be admitted. He has been great in certain high profile matches like the CL final, but in general, he hasn't been the old Xavi. Both today, and against England Xavi was very mediocre. Alonso was much better against England than Xavi was. Barcelona itself has been off form (Iniesta is always a god though, can't argue about that), so maybe it WOULD be a plan to play Alonso/Silva duo for once and not Xavi and Iniesta simply because they are the big shots. Alonso and Silva are both in the top 3 in the world in their respective positions and are both in top top form. It worked amazingly well against the USA. Was also nice to see Spain score for once.

Friendlies and some qualifiers are VDB's time to tinker with the team. The whole Spain team AS A WHOLE has been off form so I don't believe it's right to just call out Xavi. Again, the whole team was mediocre against England in fact I could barely stay awake during that game. And again Mole and others have explained over and over that Xabi is standing out more because he is forcing Xavi to play out of position and the subtle parts of the game that people don't notice like his defensive duties Xabi is in no way standing out.

Again, form should be a consideration but not the main one. Silva and Xabi are in great CLUB FORM for teams who play a system way different from Spain. They are the creative brain for there respective teams and that is not what Spain needs from them so for that fact alone there club form really doesn't mean anything. That is why I said they need to take a page from Germany's book as no matter how Podolski or Klose are playing for there club teams they have always got the start in important games because they are proven in the system the national team plays and they produce. Changing Spains system before the Euro's would be a really really bad move as you can see over the last couple of games.

They need width from Silva which he doesn't provide and they need cover from Xabi which again he doesn't provide. There are too many cooks in the kitchen right now and I do believe a lot of this is due to Pedro being hurt.

Once Pedro gets back they can go back to the 4-3-3 that has been wildly successful for them and I understand where your coming from but in no way have they been more entertaining or successful under this new system, in fact it's the worst they've played in the last 5 years.

by The Franchise Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:23 am

Why do people have to take it almost personally? Just because its a Barca player who would be playing over a Madrid one?

It has been said time and time again, its not about who is the better player, Alonso and Busi. Its about who is the best fit for a lone holdng role. Its about not playing other players out of position. Its about improving the overall level of play.

People are who think Alonso playing is so crucial that all that should be ignored, I simply dont understand.

by jibers Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:23 am

People again seem to be missing the key issue, the problem is not the cm, it's the flanks. Alonso Busquets, it doesn't matter, they are both equally good at keeping the ball. Look at how Narrow Spain play, they have to many men inthe centre and it makes them easier to predict, exactly like the first gaem in the WC which is why Silva was dropped for navas. Anyone that has even the tiniest bit of tactical nous can see this. Iniestaon the wings with silva there as well is just a fail. Villa drifts in now much more than he used to. Spains penetraton problem can be solved by using wider players such as Pedro, Navas etc.

by Doc Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:02 pm

Think Spain's issues span a bit further than whether Busquets or Alonso should start.

by matpol Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:44 pm

http://twitter.com/#!/moBbad

From this twitter:

Spain scored 8 goals in the last 4 games. all of them have come with Busquets as a lone DM and *NONE* with Xabi Alonso on the pitch. #epic

Spain have conceded 4 goals in the last 4 games. 3 with Xabi Alonso on the pitch, & just 1 (consolation effort) when Busquets was a lone DM.

If this stats are true, then Del Bosque is even in bigger love with Alonso than Pep with Keita Laughing

by Zealous Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:00 am

Spain's last four games were almost as meaningless as your post though.

by Guiltybystander Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:01 am

Alonso is also the topscorer after Villa for Spain in the VDB era.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:12 am

Guiltybystander wrote:Alonso is also the topscorer after Villa for Spain in the VDB era.

Yep and thats totally relevant to a midfielder whose job it is to protect the defense and start attacks.

by Guiltybystander Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:13 am

What, if we were going to mention arbitrary statistics, I might as well throw in a positive one no?

by Zealous Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:13 am

He starts them and finishes them off. What's your point?

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:22 am

Zealous wrote:He starts them and finishes them off. What's your point?

Yh but does he protect the defence hmm

by Albiceleste Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:23 am

matpol wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/moBbad

From this twitter:

Spain scored 8 goals in the last 4 games. all of them have come with Busquets as a lone DM and *NONE* with Xabi Alonso on the pitch. #epic

Spain have conceded 4 goals in the last 4 games. 3 with Xabi Alonso on the pitch, & just 1 (consolation effort) when Busquets was a lone DM.

If this stats are true, then Del Bosque is even in bigger love with Alonso than Pep with Keita

#xabiout

by Freeza Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:34 am

Bendtner used to look like this, and that does not mean he is not the best player in the world

by lenear1030 Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:53 am

Freeza wrote:
Bendtner used to look like this, and that does not mean he is not the best player in the world

but he is...

by Guest Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:25 am

Just for reference:

La Liga 2011/2012:

Biscuits:
1.7 tackles per game
1.7 interceptions per game
0.9 clearances per game
0.2 blocked shots per game
0.3 times dribbled by other players per game
0.4 aerial duels won per game

Alonso:
2.8 tackles per game
1.8 interceptions per game
1.1 clearences per game
0.1 blocked shots per game
1.8 time dribbled by other players per game
1.9 aerial duels won per game

---------------------------------------

To say Xabi Alonso is horrible defensively as you can see is wrong. At Real Madrid he plays deeper than Sami, his only weakness I would say is he gets dribbled too often in comparison to Biscuits otherwise he is almost superior in every other defensive stat.

I can't believe how many people are saying that Xabi Alonso is weak defensively....

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:38 am

Crimson wrote:Just for reference:

La Liga 2011/2012:

Biscuits:
1.7 tackles per game
1.7 interceptions per game
0.9 clearances per game
0.2 blocked shots per game
0.3 times dribbled by other players per game
0.4 aerial duels won per game

Alonso:
2.8 tackles per game
1.8 interceptions per game
1.1 clearences per game
0.1 blocked shots per game
1.8 time dribbled by other players per game
1.9 aerial duels won per game

---------------------------------------

To say Xabi Alonso is horrible defensively as you can see is wrong. At Real Madrid he plays deeper than Sami, his only weakness I would say is he gets dribbled too often in comparison to Biscuits otherwise he is almost superior in every other defensive stat.

I can't believe how many people are saying that Xabi Alonso is weak defensively....

Because everytime he plays DM by himself he is awful.........

I dont give a crap what stats say and he maybe the deepest player for Madrid but every little mistake he makes is mopped up by Khedira ( when he's fit)

He cant play DM by himself its been proven time and time again......

Also you only tackle when you get out of position and seeing as Busquets is almost never out of position thats an irrelevant stat......

Also Mourinho, VDV, Benitez all think Alonso is weak defensively if they didnt they wouldnt have to get a defensive partner alongside of him ( irrelevant whether they are slightly infront of him or not) to compensate for his lack of defensive awareness......

You can continue using stats all you want but it doesnt escape the fact that Alonso has always needed a defensive partner alongside him and when he has played without one his team gets raped on the counter.....

Alonso is a Xavi type player and not a DM, if you are going to play a 4-3-3( what Spain should be playing imo) the only way Alonso should play is as the playmaker( Xavi role)

So you have to decide Alonso or Xavi?

I know who i would choose.....

by Zealous Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:42 am

You should catch a Madrid game Mole I think you'd be surprised at the difference between what you think our players play like and what our players actually play like.

Anyway Xabi is played to his full potential at Madrid. Don Vicente should ring Jose up for advice.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:47 am

Zealous wrote:You should catch a Madrid game Mole I think you'd be surprised at the difference between what you think our players play like and what our players actually play like.

Anyway Xabi is played to his full potential at Madrid. Don Vicente should ring Jose up for advice.

I havent watched Madrid much this year i will admit but i havent watched Barca much this year either lol Very Happy

My point is Xabi is a playmaker and should be played as such not alongside Busquets as a DM or DM by himself....

Seeing as Xavi is on the decline i would'nt mind seeing a similar system with different personnel......

Busquets Alonso
Pedro Cesc Iniesta
Llorente

The problem now is we basically have Xavi and Xabi both doing practically the same job and its overkill imo......

It would be a temporary measure considering Thiago will take over soon :coffee:

but hopefully you are starting to understand where iam coming from after 4 f*cking pages of responses Very Happy

by jibers Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:52 am

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Zealous wrote:You should catch a Madrid game Mole I think you'd be surprised at the difference between what you think our players play like and what our players actually play like.

Anyway Xabi is played to his full potential at Madrid. Don Vicente should ring Jose up for advice.

I havent watched Madrid much this year i will admit but i havent watched Barca much this year either lol

My point is Xabi is a playmaker and should be played as such not alongside Busquets as a DM or DM by himself....

Seeing as Xavi is on the decline i would'nt mind seeing a similar system with different personnel......

Busquets Alonso
Pedro Cesc Iniesta
Llorente
Again VDB should revert back to his double picot 4-5-1. It's best for everybody tbh. As Ia siad the probelem isnt xavi or busquest, it's lack of width for spainand a packed MF making them too narrow and esier to predict, but again barca and madrid fan find away to argue about irrelevant things

The problem now is we basically have Xavi and Xabi both doing practically the same job and its overkill imo......

It would be a temporary measure considering Thiago will take over soon but hopefully you are starting to understand where iam coming from after 4 f*cking pages of responses

by Zealous Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:56 am

Play two players who provide width on both flanks and Llorente in the middle. Spain's narrow play problem is solved.

Also wide players means that you can take advantage of Xabi's Hollywood passes, which he hardly does for Espana compared to how much he does it at Madrid.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:01 am

Yh Jibers that is an major issue but i also consider having Busquets-Alonso and Xavi all in the same midfield an issue aswell......

Its just overkill lol.

by Gil Sat May 18, 2013 1:02 am

Guy is an embarassment. Outclassed by Gabi of all people.

Not even going to mention his disaster in both legs against Dortmund.

How did he last the 120? Modric was miles better.

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