Should Spain go back to 4-2-2-2 they played in Euros?

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Post by harhar11 Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:57 pm

What's is the most important is to *bleep* drop one DM :facepalm:

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Post by Bear Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:00 pm

mtfootball wrote:
buddytaller wrote:He is, watching the Spain NT, is watching a boring Barcelona side without Lionel Messi, quite a far cry from Luis Aragones' side that won the Euros in 2008.

Barca play with 3 forwards whereas Spain played with 1 goalscorer today.

Spain have possession but they just hope for some luck with 1-2s around the box. Barca however have forwards who make runs.
Agree with this.

With Barca it's usually the midfield that keeps possession with the forwards being very direct. With Spain it's different with Iniesta and Silva always coming inside making everything narrow/congested.
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Post by Babun Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:04 pm

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Gil wrote:Because compared to the current Spain side the present one hasnt' a patch on the one from three years ago.
That Spanish side in the Euros captured everyone's imagination & crushed everything in their path with their balanced, attack-minded approach which had it all, balance in midfield, plenty of options in attack, width etc.

Not a big fan of the defensive version of Barcelona Spain is playing atm.

No Senna no Party for that system you need physical DM with pace, neither Busquets or Alonso or Martinez for that matter provide it.
This! Very Happy I loved the guy in his prime, he was as complete as it gets, not your specialized Xavi or Xabi eco smile
The second reason, they need width in their strange system, Torres provided it in the Euros with his pace. The next fast guy to do so is Navas but he isn't great Very Happy
They wouldn't solve the problem by just playing 4-3-3 and a targetman like Lion King eco smile
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Post by buddytaller Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:08 pm

mtfootball wrote:
buddytaller wrote:He is, watching the Spain NT, is watching a boring Barcelona side without Lionel Messi, quite a far cry from Luis Aragones' side that won the Euros in 2008.

Barca play with 3 forwards whereas Spain played with 1 goalscorer today.

Spain have possession but they just hope for some luck with 1-2s around the box. Barca however have forwards who make runs.

He did try to copy Barcelona's false 9, Silva played that part when he was on the pitch, Iniesta was on the right and Villa on the left. ie. Silva for Messi, Iniesta for Pedro.

He started the match lined up like this:

Xavi - Busquet - Alonso
Iniesta - Silva - Villa
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Post by Onyx Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:17 pm

Yeh they rotated throughout the match. Also Silva and Iniesta are midfielders mostly than attackers.

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Post by buddytaller Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:34 pm

Iniesta and Silva are midfielders, but they were being played as forwards in a formation almost identical to Guardiola's 4-3-3. The problem has persisted since the world cup, with Torres out of form, the burden of bringing a cutting edge and finishing off chances fell to David Villa, but it's clear David Villa is gradually doing a Torres and is very low in confidence.

I just hope he experiments more with his squad and get innovative before the Euros, else we all will have to brace ourselves for a Spanish Borefest.
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Post by S32TABLANCA Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:50 pm

I've been saying it for ages. VDB is screwing up and has been for a while, and I always advocated a Xabi-Xavi-Iniesta mid and a Villa-Llorente(or other ST)-Silva attack.

Maybe now that its so obvious to everyone else, they will do something about it.
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Post by Khaled Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:48 am

Xavi (CM)
Busquets (DM)
Iniesta (AM)

When u have the Best midfield in theworld & by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr why change it... Xavi is no AM, Iniesta is no wingers ( he is a attacking midfielder, who loves to play in the middle)

Silva as a false 9 is not bad idea, since Torres is not inform..
Villa on LW & Mata/Pedro (when fit) on RW.. DONE!!


Plus Ramos should play as a rightback, he was key player in World Cup, gives more solutions offensively.. Arbeloa is mehhhh offensively!
so

Casillas
Ramos Pique Puyol- Alba (is doing well)
Xavi - Busquets - Iniesta
Mata"Pedro" - Silva - Villa
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:51 am

Khaledbarca wrote:Xavi (CM)
Busquets (DM)
Iniesta (AM)

When u have the Best midfield in theworld & by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr why change it... Xavi is no AM, Iniesta is no wingers ( he is a attacking midfielder, who loves to play in the middle)

Silva as a false 9 is not bad idea, since Torres is not inform..
Villa on LW & Mata/Pedro (when fit) on RW.. DONE!!


Plus Ramos should play as a rightback, he was key player in World Cup, gives more solutions offensively.. Arbeloa is mehhhh offensively!
so

Casillas
Ramos Pique Puyol- Alba (is doing well)
Xavi - Busquets - Iniesta
Mata"Pedro" - Silva - Villa

Id play Fabregas as a fake 9 tbh because hes a superior finisher to Silva and have Villa and Silva/Mata hover around him.......

Rest i agree with tho, Enrique should still start imo because he is miles better than Alba but if Alba performs it would be unfair to drop him.
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Post by Khaled Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:56 am

... delete ...


Last edited by Khaledbarca on Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Khaled Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:02 am

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Khaledbarca wrote:Xavi (CM)
Busquets (DM)
Iniesta (AM)

When u have the Best midfield in theworld & by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr why change it... Xavi is no AM, Iniesta is no wingers ( he is a attacking midfielder, who loves to play in the middle)

Silva as a false 9 is not bad idea, since Torres is not inform..
Villa on LW & Mata/Pedro (when fit) on RW.. DONE!!


Plus Ramos should play as a rightback, he was key player in World Cup, gives more solutions offensively.. Arbeloa is mehhhh offensively!
so

Casillas
Ramos Pique Puyol- Alba (is doing well)
Xavi - Busquets - Iniesta
Mata"Pedro" - Silva - Villa

Id play Fabregas as a fake 9 tbh because hes a superior finisher to Silva and have Villa and Silva/Mata hover around him.......

Rest i agree with tho, Enrique should still start imo because he is miles better than Alba but if Alba performs it would be unfair to drop him.

Fabregas, has been wasting alot of chances lately.. Silva is inform, linkeup great with Iniesta..
its seems that del bosque won't call enrique, plus Alba is doing great, against scotland & england played great runs forward & was verg gd defensively..

anyway, most important:
- play with one DM.
- Iniesta & Xavi in the midfield!

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Post by buddytaller Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:36 am

This is a NT not Barcelona, the only reason for starting Busquets over Xabi Alonso, is the fact that Busquets plays for Barcelona, Alonso is a far superior player to Busquets. If Spain are to get better and avoid any shocks at the EUROS, they'll have to do without Busquet, and play a "Real" CF. The ideal formation for Spain should be something like this

Casillas
Ramos - Pique - Puyol - Alba
Alonso
Xavi - Iniesta
Silva - CF - Mata

If Villa is in form play him, if not start Llorente or some other striker. The False 9 concept will only work with Messi, sadly Messi can't switch nationalities.

And secondly never underestimate friendlies esp. for a NT, Spain and the Netherlands carried a winning streak in qualifiers and friendlies into the world cup 2010 and we all no what happened next. The then World Champions Italy was awful in friendlies pre-World Cup, and it showed at the competition proper.

I believe it's time to give players on the fringes a chance to justify their inclusion into the squad, I hope players like Mata, Navas, Llorente and Valdes start in their next friendly match.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:43 am

buddytaller wrote:This is a NT not Barcelona, the only reason for starting Busquets over Xabi Alonso, is the fact that Busquets plays for Barcelona, Alonso is a far superior player to Busquets. If Spain are to get better and avoid any shocks at the EUROS, they'll have to do without Busquet, and play a "Real" CF. The ideal formation for Spain should be something like this

Casillas
Ramos - Pique - Puyol - Alba
Alonso
Xavi - Iniesta
Silva - CF - Mata

If Villa is in form play him, if not start Llorente or some other striker. The False 9 concept will only work with Messi, sadly Messi can't switch nationalities.

And secondly never underestimate friendlies esp. for a NT, Spain and the Netherlands carried a winning streak in qualifiers and friendlies into the world cup 2010 and we all no what happened next. The then World Champions Italy was awful in friendlies pre-World Cup, and it showed at the competition proper.

I believe it's time to give players on the fringes a chance to justify their inclusion into the squad, I hope players like Mata, Navas, Llorente and Valdes start in their next friendly match.

Fabregas could play false 9 imo........

Anyway on to the more important thing......

Alonso is definitely a better player than Busquets but as i said before this isnt a dream team.....

Busquets is far better than Alonso as a lone DM and preventing counter attacks, Alonso is a great deep lying playmaker but has proven he needs a DM alongside him he is basically Xavi with less mobility and better at long range passing.....

Now would you play Xavi as DM? no you wouldnt its just stupid i also think Villa should be dropped he hasnt been in good form for a while now.
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Post by buddytaller Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:58 am

Alonso can play the lone DM just fine, Spain possesses the ball for a long time, and the DM's role is basically to keep possession and initiate attack, either way it either Busquets or Alonso and surely not both.

And I don't think Fabregas has what it takes to play the false 9, he's not a great finisher or dribbler and cannot create space for himself, Silva would have been a better fit, but even he, struggled to play that role today. By the way, what the advantages of playing a false 9 over a conventional 9?
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Post by Khaled Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:11 am

buddytaller wrote:This is a NT not Barcelona, the only reason for starting Busquets over Xabi Alonso, is the fact that Busquets plays for Barcelona, Alonso is a far superior player to Busquets. If Spain are to get better and avoid any shocks at the EUROS, they'll have to do without Busquet, and play a "Real" CF. The ideal formation for Spain should be something like this

Casillas
Ramos - Pique - Puyol - Alba
Alonso
Xavi - Iniesta
Silva - CF - Mata

If Villa is in form play him, if not start Llorente or some other striker. The False 9 concept will only work with Messi, sadly Messi can't switch nationalities.

And secondly never underestimate friendlies esp. for a NT, Spain and the Netherlands carried a winning streak in qualifiers and friendlies into the world cup 2010 and we all no what happened next. The then World Champions Italy was awful in friendlies pre-World Cup, and it showed at the competition proper.

I believe it's time to give players on the fringes a chance to justify their inclusion into the squad, I hope players like Mata, Navas, Llorente and Valdes start in their next friendly match.

LoOoOoOoOoL
Busquets is used to play this role..
This is why he should play it, he's been doing it at Barca for the 4th year now..
Alonso is not used to it.. although i will take the above lineup anyday, rather than playing with Busqutes & Alonso together against small teams or teams parking the bus!!
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:27 am

buddytaller wrote:Alonso can play the lone DM just fine, Spain possesses the ball for a long time, and the DM's role is basically to keep possession and initiate attack, either way it either Busquets or Alonso and surely not both.

And I don't think Fabregas has what it takes to play the false 9, he's not a great finisher or dribbler and cannot create space for himself, Silva would have been a better fit, but even he, struggled to play that role today. By the way, what the advantages of playing a false 9 over a conventional 9?

1. I really dont see why every Madrid fan see's it this way lol when everysingle Neutral in the world realises it lol but fair enough.

2. Agreed

3. LOL Wut, its probably along with final pass the thing he is best at lol, your right about him not being able to create space or being great at dribbling tho.

As for the advantages over the convential 9.......

In a possession based system a conventional 9 is a ghost majority of the time because he doesnt participate in the build up and basically means the team is outnumbered if they were to face another team with a fake 9.

A Fake 9 will participate in the build up while also taking up conventional positions which makes him incredibly difficult to pick up, the defenders dont usually know whether to stick or twist....

There are obviously advantages to a conventional 9 aswell but in a possession based system theres usually more negatives than positives.
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Post by The Madrid One Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:59 am

lol only reason spain is playing so bad is because barca is as well. :coffee:
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Post by Valkyrja Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:16 am

=============Casillas=============
==Arbeloa===Pique===Ramos===Jordi Alba==
==========Alonso===Busquets==========
=========Iniesta===Xavi===Silva==========
================Torres=========

Villa will be already 31 and Soldado/Llorente aren't on Torres' level.
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Post by teamanarchy Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:20 am

Just play Llorente and Soldado up front.
Have Navas on one of the wings, and things will change...
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Post by Lord Spencer Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:51 am

Gil wrote:Because compared to the current Spain side the present one hasnt' a patch on the one from three years ago.
That Spanish side in the Euros captured everyone's imagination & crushed everything in their path with their balanced, attack-minded approach which had it all, balance in midfield, plenty of options in attack, width etc.

Not a big fan of the defensive version of Barcelona Spain is playing atm.

Last time I checked, winning in penalties, then getting 3 past Russia and only getting one past Germany is not = crushing them.

Group stage where said Spain team raped the same Russia they raped again, and got 1 ups on both Greece and Sweden.

Don't get me wrong, Spain completely deserved their victory, and they played some good football. But "crushed" is a tad too strong.
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Post by Adit Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:44 pm

Fabregas playing false 9 will be as effective as Xabi alonso as a center back for spain.Only reason why fabregas scores alot of tap ins in barca is their 3-4-3 and Messi is already there to distract defenders and create.

Can fabregas play a false 9 role for spain alone? dont think so.
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Post by Onyx Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:41 pm

Why does it matter if Spain aren't Barca? They have a similar style and have similar players.


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Post by Adit Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:52 pm

They have similar players? lol

about 80% of barcelona goals goes throw messi..
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Post by Onyx Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:55 pm

Pedro, Villa, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pique and Puyol.

The midfield is already there.


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Post by jibers Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:00 pm

mtfootball wrote:Pedro, Villa, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pique and Puyol.

The midfield is already there.


Again SPain CANNOT play like Barcelona...
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Post by Onyx Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:02 pm

They already do. They play possession football.

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