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Post by Error on Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:04 pm

I wonder if anyone else than me is annoyed with Mata transfer. And by annoyed I mean that we let him go for free to Valencia and they got nice clean ~30mil euro profit off him. Technically we actually lost around 65 million euros by letting Mata go and (Di Maria's price 25M€ + incentives + Drenthe 13mil€ + Mata 28mil€). We can't even give an excuse that he surprised us by blossoming in Valencia since he was regarded one of the brightest prospect in our and Spain's youth systems. That 65 million could have been used to strengthening other positions. Our poor transfer policy lets other clubs reap the rewards and we end up overpaying for overrated players.
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Post by The Madrid One on Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:06 pm

we are here to learn from our mistakes.

i know im gonna get wacked for saying this but...

i hope mourinho has influence in improving the club's outlook at the youth, make the club better in all areas.

as a club we have to start making better decisions and we already have at that.
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Post by shaven on Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:10 pm

we made a lot of mistakes and some good ones....


for me past is past in that case Smile

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Post by Error on Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:37 pm

@The Madrid One wrote:we are here to learn from our mistakes.

i know im gonna get wacked for saying this but...

i hope mourinho has influence in improving the club's outlook at the youth, make the club better in all areas.

as a club we have to start making better decisions and we already have at that.
Sorry but I don't see anything that tells "we are learning from our mistakes" when we are constantly after guys like Neymar, Aguero and other wonderkids. Let's say we buy Neymar in the next summer, where does that leave Sarabia?

@shaven wrote:we made a lot of mistakes and some good ones....


for me past is past in that case Smile
It's easy to say that but currently we don't seem to do anything to stop this cycle and I'm not really eager to see more of these situations in the future.
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Post by hrealmadrid on Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:43 pm

I met the guy years ago the during the u20 WC in Canada right before he signed with Valencia and all of us there knew he was going to be big. Not like Capel who's a bit one dimensional.

It's unfortunate we have been so poor in this area and I hope this is a slap-in-the-face type wakeup call.
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Post by The Madrid One on Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:59 pm

@Error wrote:
@The Madrid One wrote:we are here to learn from our mistakes.

i know im gonna get wacked for saying this but...

i hope mourinho has influence in improving the club's outlook at the youth, make the club better in all areas.

as a club we have to start making better decisions and we already have at that.
Sorry but I don't see anything that tells "we are learning from our mistakes" when we are constantly after guys like Neymar, Aguero and other wonderkids. Let's say we buy Neymar in the next summer, where does that leave Sarabia?

@shaven wrote:we made a lot of mistakes and some good ones....


for me past is past in that case Smile
It's easy to say that but currently we don't seem to do anything to stop this cycle and I'm not really eager to see more of these situations in the future.
neymar is one of the brightest football gems in the world right now, i guess we are just trying to capitalize on it. im sure we will give the cantera more chances. but we have to work from the ground up. Mou said everything comes in its due time, we should work on getting the castilla to segunda division and then improve our incorporations, devlopement, and management of youth, i hope things only get better from this point forward.

i know you are one of those who get really flustered about whats been going on with the cantera but we cant just "PLAY" them... all in its due time, ut we could make improvements thats for sure
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Post by Onyx on Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:45 pm

None of the youths really get a chance.
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Post by Error on Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:51 pm

@The Madrid One wrote:neymar is one of the brightest football gems in the world right now, i guess we are just trying to capitalize on it. im sure we will give the cantera more chances. but we have to work from the ground up. Mou said everything comes in its due time, we should work on getting the castilla to segunda division and then improve our incorporations, devlopement, and management of youth, i hope things only get better from this point forward.

i know you are one of those who get really flustered about whats been going on with the cantera but we cant just "PLAY" them... all in its due time, ut we could make improvements thats for sure
Yes, everyone knows that Neymar is future WC player and I don't mind buying young potential WC players (Varane) if we don't have potential WC player in same position coming up soon from youths and one of our players is close to retire or quit (Carvalho). This potential Neymar transfer is just another proof of our poor transfer policy that should be changed. When your offense have no lack of depth, starters are performing well and you have a few couple bright own youths waiting for their chances then it doesn't really justify to splash tens of millions euros to someone who is not really needed. It's just pure greediness and many times waste of money. It's something we could easily avoid with more patient and wiser management. Neymar money could be easily spent to another position that needs upgrading much more. Personally I think that the 6+5 rule would actually benefit us much more than everyone thinks, specially in the long run.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:56 pm

FRankly, this is all the politically correct stuff we dont need. We know we arent doing so well already, why reopen the wound and rub it in again?

moving forwards, as we return to our winning ways, things will improve and more youth player will get into the equation.

right now there is nothing arguing will do, we can only wait and hope for the best. Did we drop the ball, yes, but the bottom line is that we havent been able to stick with a coach for 4 or more seasons, it's not surprising we lost talent along the way. Maybe he will make his way back in a couple of years if we are looking for a forward.


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Post by The Madrid One on Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:59 pm

our club has been crumbling away like a piece of toilet paper in all of its possible areas including the youth, and the fact that the galactico agenda blinded us heavily in area really didnt do us well.

we just gotta hope that with a new outlook at things comes a better management of things..
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Post by H.A. on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:25 am

Well what happened happened. Its good that 65M for us wouldn't really affect us financially but adding that with the Kaka transfer simply adds up and we all know that's a door we wouldn't like to open.

Anyway we now have another generation of youth who will surely blossom, hope we don't let them go permanently, a la Sarabia, and hope we give the current one in Castilla a chance.

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Post by FalcaoPunch on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:21 am

Even if we kept mata there would have been no way that we have sold him for 65 million.
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Post by Zealous on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:28 am

Mata was/is disrespectful to the club that turned him into a professional footballer.

He wanted us to pay him 1 million euros a year if he got promoted. A freakin' teenager who is supposed to want to play for us asking for that sort of money is ludicrous. Him and his Father can piss off for all I care.

There are other cantera more deserving of our good feelings than this guy.

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Post by Error on Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:26 am

ColoJunior wrote:Even if we kept mata there would have been no way that we have sold him for 65 million.
Nobody said he could be sold for 65 million. That's the amount of cash we could have saved if we had not let Mata go for free.

@Zealous wrote:Mata was/is disrespectful to the club that turned him into a professional footballer.

He wanted us to pay him 1 million euros a year if he got promoted. A freakin' teenager who is supposed to want to play for us asking for that sort of money is ludicrous. Him and his Father can piss off for all I care.

There are other cantera more deserving of our good feelings than this guy.
I don't see how he was disrespectful when we never wanted to promote him that year. We refused to give him first team contract but Valencia was willing to give him one. And are you saying that Real Madrid can't afford to pay their own really promising youth his salary wish but Valencia can what he is asking? But yet we didn't have any problems to pay MORE for Drenthe! And on top of it we bought him for 13 million! Don't try to tell me there isn't anything wrong in that... so there is no way this whole thing was a money issue.

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Post by Giovanni10 on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:13 pm

Quite honestly I think you are overrating Mata a little. At the time of us not bringing him back or promoting him or whatever, we also went through the likes of Robinho and Robben, who were at the time much better.

Don't focus on this as a mishap retrospectively, nobody could have actually predicted he would become a WC player- We couldn't have possibly kept him in Castilla right up until last year. When he was with us, I quite honestly couldn't see outstanding potential, he didn't impress me anymore than a player like Jese Rodriguez is at present.

From that Valencia outfit if say hypothetically, David Silva, was a player we let slip to them- then I would have said we were mad because his potential was clear from the start.

He is a good fit for Chelsea + with the players we have at our disposal now, he wouldn't have got a look in at the starting line-up anyway.

Even looking at Drenthe's potential in retrospect to Mata's at the time, we all thought Drenthe was going to turn la liga on its head, but for inexplicable reasons, he flopped.

At no level can I agree with this analysis.
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Post by Error on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:00 pm

@Giovanni10 wrote:Quite honestly I think you are overrating Mata a little. At the time of us not bringing him back or promoting him or whatever, we also went through the likes of Robinho and Robben, who were at the time much better.

Don't focus on this as a mishap retrospectively, nobody could have actually predicted he would become a WC player- We couldn't have possibly kept him in Castilla right up until last year. When he was with us, I quite honestly couldn't see outstanding potential, he didn't impress me anymore than a player like Jese Rodriguez is at present.

From that Valencia outfit if say hypothetically, David Silva, was a player we let slip to them- then I would have said we were mad because his potential was clear from the start.

He is a good fit for Chelsea + with the players we have at our disposal now, he wouldn't have got a look in at the starting line-up anyway.

Even looking at Drenthe's potential in retrospect to Mata's at the time, we all thought Drenthe was going to turn la liga on its head, but for inexplicable reasons, he flopped.

At no level can I agree with this analysis.
How I can overrate him when I haven't said a single thing about his current abilities or compared his skills to anyone else? I'm not saying here that he is the best Spanish winger or something like that. Just saying that we wasted a lot of unnecessary cash on foreign talent when we had an answer already in the club. Also, do you think Barca and many other big teams were interested in him if he wasn't a good player?

Back in the time when we had Robinho and Robben, Mata was too young to be a starter so he would have been backup at best but that's a thing every youth has to go through. Things started to go wrong when we bought Drenthe.

You have to be kidding me by thinking that no one could predict him becoming a great player. He was consider one of the brightest gems in his own generation so it was not a coincidence. If you couldn't see it back then then too bad for you because many others clearly saw it. Mata was same kind of prospect to his own generation back then as Sarabia and Jese are now. Everyone knows that they will someday be a great players.

Atm Mata would fit in our current team well. Not that we need him but his style would suit us. Difference in quality between him and Di Maria isn't that big and IMO his playmaker style would actually fit our team much better than the direct and selfish Di Maria style. It would help immensely Özil's and Alonso's burden. So, would I rather take Mata for free than pay +25 million for Di Maria? Yes, no question about it.

Drenthe wasn't consider as a great talent. He went largely unnoticed until that one youth tournament where he shined and was named the best player of tournament. He was literally one tournament wonder and we fell for it and paid heavily for it. Reason why he flopped was because he wasn't that good in the first place. Hype destroyed him, nothing else.

But this topic only point is not only to point out how poorly we handle Mata situation. It's more about transfer policy and youths at generally. To me it seems we haven't learn anything since we are still looking to spalsh big bucks for young talents when we already have really promising youths playing in same position.
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Post by FalcaoPunch on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:32 pm

Well I don't see Madrid as a club that would sell a player for so much.
I mean to be honest, in our history who is the player that we have sold with the highest transfer fee?

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Post by Zealous on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:35 pm

@Zealous wrote:Mata was/is disrespectful to the club that turned him into a professional footballer.

He wanted us to pay him 1 million euros a year if he got promoted. A freakin' teenager who is supposed to want to play for us asking for that sort of money is ludicrous. Him and his Father can piss off for all I care.

There are other cantera more deserving of our good feelings than this guy.
I don't see how he was disrespectful when we never wanted to promote him that year. We refused to give him first team contract but Valencia was willing to give him one. And are you saying that Real Madrid can't afford to pay their own really promising youth his salary wish but Valencia can what he is asking? But yet we didn't have any problems to pay MORE for Drenthe! And on top of it we bought him for 13 million! Don't try to tell me there isn't anything wrong in that... so there is no way this whole thing was a money issue.


Raul Fecking Gonzalez didn't ask for 1 million, Iker Fecking Casillas didn't ask for 1 million.

Playing for Real Madrid should be all the motivation you need to succeed at Madrid. This club rewards you when you prove your loyalty and professionalism just look at what we paid Iker, Raul and Guti when they became established. If we gave in to Mata's bitching that year we would have to pay cantera products to play for Real Madrid upon promotion. Think about that for a second.

Add to that Mata's scum bag father threatened the club that he would pimp his son to Barcelona. As if Mata is even that good. (He isn't).

Mata and his dad are unprofessional brats who wasted a chance to play for the club had they really wanted to. Clownderon was a fuckin nut job but both parties were at fault, not just Madrid.

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Post by Doc on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:54 pm

Real Madrid have (despite evidence to the contrary) a strict structure in which its youth players are paid. It's the old school way of promoting youth really. Giggs and Scholes didn't start making their serious salary till proving their worth in the big time. Mata demanded 1 million dollar salary without doing anything to say he deserves such a salary. Real Madrid doesn't play that way.

Shame that sort of talent never really proved his worth here but Real Madrid are fine and Mata is fine.

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Post by Error on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:54 pm

ColoJunior wrote:Well I don't see Madrid as a club that would sell a player for so much.
I mean to be honest, in our history who is the player that we have sold with the highest transfer fee?

I'm pretty sure Robinho's 42 million euros is the highest we have received. From homegrown players I think Negredo is the highest with 15 million euros.

@Zealous wrote:
@Zealous wrote:Mata was/is disrespectful to the club that turned him into a professional footballer.

He wanted us to pay him 1 million euros a year if he got promoted. A freakin' teenager who is supposed to want to play for us asking for that sort of money is ludicrous. Him and his Father can piss off for all I care.

There are other cantera more deserving of our good feelings than this guy.
I don't see how he was disrespectful when we never wanted to promote him that year. We refused to give him first team contract but Valencia was willing to give him one. And are you saying that Real Madrid can't afford to pay their own really promising youth his salary wish but Valencia can what he is asking? But yet we didn't have any problems to pay MORE for Drenthe! And on top of it we bought him for 13 million! Don't try to tell me there isn't anything wrong in that... so there is no way this whole thing was a money issue.


Raul Fecking Gonzalez didn't ask for 1 million, Iker Fecking Casillas didn't ask for 1 million.

Playing for Real Madrid should be all the motivation you need to succeed at Madrid. This club rewards you when you prove your loyalty and professionalism just look at what we paid Iker, Raul and Guti when they became established. If we gave in to Mata's bitching that year we would have to pay cantera products to play for Real Madrid upon promotion. Think about that for a second.

Add to that Mata's scum bag father threatened the club that he would pimp his son to Barcelona. As if Mata is even that good. (He isn't).

Mata and his dad are unprofessional brats who wasted a chance to play for the club had they really wanted to. Clownderon was a fuckin nut job but both parties were at fault, not just Madrid.
Yea, what a great logic. Casillas and Raul didn't earn that much so we can't pay for Mata that amount. What a dirty scum for asking that much.... BUT WAIT A MINUTE! Let's buy Drenthe for 13 million and pay him the double of the amount Mata what is asking!!! F*ck yea, suck that Mata! Rolling Eyes

Can't you see that something is wrong your story? We seem to be a happy to give cash to anyone else except own youths.
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Post by Zealous on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:08 pm

Drenthe was epic fail I agree but at least he looked like a safer bet. He had just won player of the tournament at the U-21 Euros.

Mata did pretty much nothing to ask for 1 million a year. Also if we paid that money grubber 1 million a year we would have to listen to every single cantera product ask for similar amounts. We have a strict structure when it comes to this so stop acting as if you could do better with handling how we spend the money the club has.

If Mata stayed and tried to prove himself like how a real cantera product should act I'm sure the club would have been more than happy to pay him a good salary once he had become an established player.

The whole point of having cantera is providing the first team with players who are hungry to prove themselves and play for Real Madrid because they understand what a great opportunity it is. A guy like Mata who is in it for the money is not someone the club needs.

If anything the way he acted towards the club who he owes his professional career too has been nothing short of disrespectful IMO.

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Post by Error on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:45 pm

@Zealous wrote:Drenthe was epic fail I agree but at least he looked like a safer bet. He had just won player of the tournament at the U-21 Euros.

Mata did pretty much nothing to ask for 1 million a year. Also if we paid that money grubber 1 million a year we would have to listen to every single cantera product ask for similar amounts. We have a strict structure when it comes to this so stop acting as if you could do better with handling how we spend the money the club has.

If Mata stayed and tried to prove himself like how a real cantera product should act I'm sure the club would have been more than happy to pay him a good salary once he had become an established player.

The whole point of having cantera is providing the first team with players who are hungry to prove themselves and play for Real Madrid because they understand what a great opportunity it is. A guy like Mata who is in it for the money is not someone the club needs.

If anything the way he acted towards the club who he owes his professional career too has been nothing short of disrespectful IMO.
Safer bet? I don't see how it's safe to throw a lot money at player based on one tournament. At least with Mata we knew accurately what we would get but instead we really wanted to take the risk. Mata was also one of the key players in Spain youth NT's so he wasn't just another decent youth product.

And anyone with some brains and patience could do better job than our recent managements. We have been throwing cash around too generously and other clubs knows it too. That's why they ask these insane prices from us.

Just out of curiosity. Would you rather pay 1mil now for Jese or Sarabia than 2 million for U20 best player (Henrique)? It's exactly the same situation than with Mata & Drenthe.
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Post by Zealous on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:49 pm

Jese and Sarabia aren't demanding 1 million euros so no it's not the same situation.

You don't seem to want to understand that Mata is an idiot and a money grubber.

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Post by Doc on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:50 pm

An idiot, no. A money grubber, I would agree to...

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Post by Error on Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:03 pm

@Zealous wrote:Jese and Sarabia aren't demanding 1 million euros so no it's not the same situation.

You don't seem to want to understand that Mata is an idiot and a money grubber.
So what if he is a mercenary as long as he can perform on field? We ended up to pay to double the amount Mata asked so maybe his valution of his worth was right?
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