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Post by Young Kaz on Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:14 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:something like 175 years ago, unemployment in the US was practically nonexistant, though quite a lot of jobs were really, really, really low pay


Funny enough you pick 1844, and not a few years earlier where the economy fell apart and we elected a whig who promised to fix it.

People with jobs dont want change.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:27 am

@Young Kaz wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:Most jobs created are low wage part time though. People aren't really doing better, there's a ton of working poor, none of which should exist in the world's richest country.


Most jobs have always been low wage, and less than full time. People have some mythical idea of America in the 50's where 1 man could afford to take care of their family on a factory job, with a white picket fence, a stay at home wife, 3 kids, and a dog. That isnt realistic, and that wasnt the reality for most back then. Minorities in America didnt have a pot to piss in, nor a window to throw it out of. The jobs were even worse then than now because at least with Uber or Mcdonalds you can come home. Plenty of people were traveling and didnt even have a home to go to when they came back.


My point was just that lowered unemployment doesn't really tell you much about how people are doing until you know what those jobs are.

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Post by Unique on Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:39 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Young Kaz wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:Most jobs created are low wage part time though. People aren't really doing better, there's a ton of working poor, none of which should exist in the world's richest country.


Most jobs have always been low wage, and less than full time. People have some mythical idea of America in the 50's where 1 man could afford to take care of their family on a factory job, with a white picket fence, a stay at home wife, 3 kids, and a dog. That isnt realistic, and that wasnt the reality for most back then. Minorities in America didnt have a pot to piss in, nor a window to throw it out of. The jobs were even worse then than now because at least with Uber or Mcdonalds you can come home. Plenty of people were traveling and didnt even have a home to go to when they came back.


My point was just that lowered unemployment doesn't really tell you much about how people are doing until you know what those jobs are.
well a job is better than no job yes?

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Post by Young Kaz on Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:30 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Young Kaz wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:Most jobs created are low wage part time though. People aren't really doing better, there's a ton of working poor, none of which should exist in the world's richest country.


Most jobs have always been low wage, and less than full time. People have some mythical idea of America in the 50's where 1 man could afford to take care of their family on a factory job, with a white picket fence, a stay at home wife, 3 kids, and a dog. That isnt realistic, and that wasnt the reality for most back then. Minorities in America didnt have a pot to piss in, nor a window to throw it out of. The jobs were even worse then than now because at least with Uber or Mcdonalds you can come home. Plenty of people were traveling and didnt even have a home to go to when they came back.


My point was just that lowered unemployment doesn't really tell you much about how people are doing until you know what those jobs are.


Lowered unemployment doesnt tell you everything, I agree. It does tell you a major thing though. That people wont be spurred into change based on that.
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Post by Young Kaz on Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:19 am

IMPEACHEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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Post by McLewis on Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:40 am

He's been impeached on 2 charges:

- Abuse of power
-Obstruction of Congress

The final vote for Abuse of Power:

Yes - 230
No - 197
Present - 1
No Vote - 3

All the Republicans + Democrats Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey and Collin Peterson of Minnesota voted No. Van Drew is considering switching to the GOP.

The final vote on Obstruction of Congress was:

Yes - 229
No - 198
Present - 1
NV - 3

On this one, Van Drew and Peterson again joined Republicans in voting No, while also joined by Maine Democrat Jared Golden.

Tulsi Gabbard, a Democrat Presidential nominee, voted "present" on both, which is neither a yes nor no vote.

Next step: Speaker Pelosi should now be turning this over to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell so that the Senate phase of this can begin, however McConnell has made it clear that the GOP-controlled Senate will work directly with the White House on their phase of the trial. The strategy is to quickly vote for Trump not to be moved so that they can kill this whole thing before Christmas. Knowing this, Pelosi is essentially refusing to pass the trial over to the Senate, instead opting to draw it out longer into 2020, leaving Trump essentially in a legal limbo for as long as possible.
------------------------------------------

My thoughts on this haven't changed all that much. When this gets to the Senate, they will not remove him. McConnell and Lindsay Graham, who chairs the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee have made it clear that they do not plan to call any witnesses so this won't be much of a trial. Frankly, unless Pelosi manages to hold this up for the duration of 2020 up until election night,  it's going to be over sooner rather than later. For his part, Trump actually wants a long trial. He wants witnesses to testify endlessly as to his character. He wants this dramatized as much as possible in his favor.

Regardless of what anyone does, this is now on the history record, preserved for posterity. Nothing can change the fact that Trump is now only the 3rd President in history to be impeached. It will stain his political record forever, no matter what he does going forward. The Democrats have done their job. This was their most powerful chip to play. Beyond Pelosi's delay tactics, there's not much else that can be done other than ensure the right candidate is chosen to beat Trump next year.
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Post by Pedram on Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:18 am

Completely meaningless impeachment since it was voted in partisan lines, actually not even partisan with two Democrats voting no.

I'm calling it now, this will backfire spectacularly in 2020, he'll be the first impeached president to be reelected.
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Post by Freeza on Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:25 am

There's only been two impeached presidents before this lol. And they were both acquitted.

If this impeachment is meaningless then every impeachment is meaningless lol

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:32 am

Not even one single Republican voting for impeachment. This is shocking beyond belief.

The whole party has descended into complete psychopathy, unaccountability, and cultism

Trump is not a fluke, a singular figure. He's the perfect embodiment of the Republican Party's values, and a sizeable and influential part of the people find this just great, apparently

Not just the US, we are all fucked

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Post by Myesyats on Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:05 pm

This will only help Trump in the upcoming election. There's no help for society

Depressing. Time to move into the middle of the woods away from braindead zombies.

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Post by McLewis on Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:42 pm

@Pedram wrote:Completely meaningless impeachment since it was voted in partisan lines, actually not even partisan with two Democrats voting no.

I'm calling it now, this will backfire spectacularly in 2020, he'll be the first impeached president to be reelected.

@Myesyats wrote:This will only help Trump in the upcoming election. There's no help for society

Depressing. Time to move into the middle of the woods away from braindead zombies.


He's underwater in nearly every battleground state that handed him the win in 2016, the top 5 Democrat candidates have all consistently led him in the polls all year, and most importantly, he's underwater with moderates and Independents with a 48% approval rating as of Monday.

The only way I see him winning again is if the same electors in IA, WI, MI, PA, OH and other battleground states give him their votes. As it stands, he's going to lose all of these states including Arizona as well. No one has ever won the presidency while losing all of these states.

Let's also remember that historically, when Democrat turnout is high, their candidates win. When Democrat turnout is low, Republicans win. Voter turnout On the Democrat side in 2016 was quite low due to a dislike of or indifference to Hillary so this aided Trump significantly. Independents also leaned towards Trump as well, which further tipped the scales. If we see a Biden candidacy (with Sanders and Warren supporters holding their noses and voting for him), Democrat turnout will be high in 2020. That spells defeat for Trump.

So with all of this said, what are either of you basing this assumption that the House doing its constitutionally-elected job (impeach the president when he breaks the law) will backfire in the 2020 election? I'm genuinely curious.
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Post by Unique on Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:53 pm

looks like DT and BO JO will rule the world together. what a time to be alive cheers

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Post by Lex on Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:23 pm

@McLewis wrote:He's been impeached on 2 charges:

- Abuse of power
-Obstruction of Congress
Might as well impeach him on the grounds that he's a straight, white male, such is the ambiguity of the other accusations Laughing

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Post by Freeza on Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:35 pm

@Lex wrote:
@McLewis wrote:He's been impeached on 2 charges:

- Abuse of power
-Obstruction of Congress
Might as well impeach him on the grounds that he's a straight, white male, such is the ambiguity of the other accusations Laughing


He’s not straight.

He’s crooked

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Post by Zagadka on Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:13 pm

Can you believe this person is 3rd in line to become president and has such political power Very Happy ....US politics is a meme man.




btw, What's up with these high-level Dems (Schiff, Pelosi, Biden) and their kids having board jobs either at gas companies or with arms dealers in Ukraine? hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm
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Post by McLewis on Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:45 pm

I'd rather have their kids be on the boards of private companies than be unofficial members of their parent's staff and making official policy decisions and/or representing us at geopolitcal summits like Jared and Ivanka.

That type of nepotism is a lot worse.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:06 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Young Kaz wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:Most jobs created are low wage part time though. People aren't really doing better, there's a ton of working poor, none of which should exist in the world's richest country.


Most jobs have always been low wage, and less than full time. People have some mythical idea of America in the 50's where 1 man could afford to take care of their family on a factory job, with a white picket fence, a stay at home wife, 3 kids, and a dog. That isnt realistic, and that wasnt the reality for most back then. Minorities in America didnt have a pot to piss in, nor a window to throw it out of. The jobs were even worse then than now because at least with Uber or Mcdonalds you can come home. Plenty of people were traveling and didnt even have a home to go to when they came back.


My point was just that lowered unemployment doesn't really tell you much about how people are doing until you know what those jobs are.


There are actually many measures of unemployment. The commonly cited one iirc is called the U3 rate. The broadest one in the US is called the U6 rate and it's actually at it's lowest level since data has been captured for it:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE


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Post by Young Kaz on Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:53 am

@Zagadka wrote:Can you believe this person is 3rd in line to become president and has such political power Very Happy ....US politics is a meme man.




btw, What's up with these high-level Dems (Schiff, Pelosi, Biden) and their kids having board jobs either at gas companies or with arms dealers in Ukraine? hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm


Can you believe shes been able to go to football matches, with men, her entire life too? Fucking decadent west.

Doesnt that just make you angry Sepi? Like who do women think they are by going to football matches with men. Feminism has gone mad.
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Post by Adit on Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:06 pm

@Freeza wrote:Unemployment is such an empty statistic
come on. Literally the most important statistics .

GDP, per capita , hdi nothing matters as much as unemployment rate.

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Post by Adit on Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:19 pm

Like I predicted Trump has proved everyone wrong with his economic policies. He has done an excellent job whether you like him or not.

Bernie Sanders will destroy U.S and what it stands for. The economic freedom that your ancestors passed on should be passed on to your future generations.

Bernie wants government to do a lot more business and that means more taxes, more corruption more power for government.

Stay away.

The only cause I can agree with Bernie is free health care for poor.

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Post by Freeza on Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:47 pm

Economic freedom? The majority of the American people have crippling debt lol.


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Post by Art Morte on Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:56 am

Capitalism worked great before mega-corporations, now it's increasingly making the rich richer as small and medium enterprises cannot compete against the giants. Sadly for a lot of Americans capitalism = America and nothing else can be even considered.
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Post by Vibe on Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:21 pm

@McLewis wrote:
@Pedram wrote:Completely meaningless impeachment since it was voted in partisan lines, actually not even partisan with two Democrats voting no.

I'm calling it now, this will backfire spectacularly in 2020, he'll be the first impeached president to be reelected.

@Myesyats wrote:This will only help Trump in the upcoming election. There's no help for society

Depressing. Time to move into the middle of the woods away from braindead zombies.


He's underwater in nearly every battleground state that handed him the win in 2016, the top 5 Democrat candidates have all consistently led him in the polls all year, and most importantly, he's underwater with moderates and Independents with a 48% approval rating as of Monday.

The only way I see him winning again is if the same electors in IA, WI, MI, PA, OH and other battleground states give him their votes. As it stands, he's going to lose all of these states including Arizona as well. No one has ever won the presidency while losing all of these states.

Let's also remember that historically, when Democrat turnout is high, their candidates win. When Democrat turnout is low, Republicans win. Voter turnout On the Democrat side in 2016 was quite low due to a dislike of or indifference to Hillary so this aided Trump significantly. Independents also leaned towards Trump as well, which further tipped the scales. If we see a Biden candidacy (with Sanders and Warren supporters holding their noses and voting for him), Democrat turnout will be high in 2020. That spells defeat for Trump.

So with all of this said, what are either of you basing this assumption that the House doing its constitutionally-elected job (impeach the president when he breaks the law) will backfire in the 2020 election? I'm genuinely curious.


Wasn't he underwater in every single poll ever before he got elected? Hillary in a landslide, remember...
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Post by McLewis on Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:45 pm

@Vibe wrote:
@McLewis wrote:
@Pedram wrote:Completely meaningless impeachment since it was voted in partisan lines, actually not even partisan with two Democrats voting no.

I'm calling it now, this will backfire spectacularly in 2020, he'll be the first impeached president to be reelected.

@Myesyats wrote:This will only help Trump in the upcoming election. There's no help for society

Depressing. Time to move into the middle of the woods away from braindead zombies.


He's underwater in nearly every battleground state that handed him the win in 2016, the top 5 Democrat candidates have all consistently led him in the polls all year, and most importantly, he's underwater with moderates and Independents with a 48% approval rating as of Monday.

The only way I see him winning again is if the same electors in IA, WI, MI, PA, OH and other battleground states give him their votes. As it stands, he's going to lose all of these states including Arizona as well. No one has ever won the presidency while losing all of these states.

Let's also remember that historically, when Democrat turnout is high, their candidates win. When Democrat turnout is low, Republicans win. Voter turnout On the Democrat side in 2016 was quite low due to a dislike of or indifference to Hillary so this aided Trump significantly. Independents also leaned towards Trump as well, which further tipped the scales. If we see a Biden candidacy (with Sanders and Warren supporters holding their noses and voting for him), Democrat turnout will be high in 2020. That spells defeat for Trump.

So with all of this said, what are either of you basing this assumption that the House doing its constitutionally-elected job (impeach the president when he breaks the law) will backfire in the 2020 election? I'm genuinely curious.


Wasn't he underwater in every single poll ever before he got elected? Hillary in a landslide, remember...


Hillary won the popular vote handily. Those polls were not wrong.

There really isn't a way to poll electors within the Electoral College, which is where Trump won.
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Post by Vibe on Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:26 am

As far as I remember, those weren't popular vote polls but Electoral college polls. Those state charts were always dominantly blue.

Though I have to admit I don't fully understand Electoral college. Seems like bullshit, the part that I do understand.

Trump will probably win again, rednecks will prevail. From the outside, it seems he's doing rather decently anyway. Apart from being an embarassement as a person that, officially, holds the most powerful position a human can have.
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Post by McLewis on Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:55 pm

I'm not going to discount the fact that Trump might win again. I think 2016 disapproved the theory that he's too much of a moron to run an effective campaign. It seems to be the only thing he's truly good at politically for some reason.

That said, 2020 is entirely a different prospect than 2016. Despite winning the popular vote, Hillary was deeply unpopular among college-educated liberals while only being lukewarm with communities of color and and millennial, which are both significant voting blocs for the Democrats. Neither side were excited about her and so they did not turn out in the same numbers as with Obama. She was so unpopular that many of them either didn't vote in the general election or, in more extreme cases, voted either 3rd party or for Trump. We also have to remember that she was also very unpopular with blue collar white working class Democrats who voted for Obama twice. Those folks voted for Trump too. Lastly, this will be the first election that will see a larger chunk of Generation Z voting for the first time and like Milennials, they skew more to the left so those are votes Trump and his allies will likely not get.

Not a single 2020 Democrat has drawn those deep levels of dislike from the rank and file Democrat voting base beyond Tulsi Gabbard ( who is both barely a Democrat and a surety to not be the nominee).

So given the above and that we've now experienced 3 years of cruel, racist, inept governing dressed up as competence from Trump and his administration, it's understandable that the level of confidence of a Democrat win is higher.

Nothing is certain however. I didn't rattle off those poll numbers because I'm in blind belief that Trump will lose. I rattled them off to illustrate that if Democrats correct the mistakes Hillary made and not only win back the states they lost in 2016, but push into competitive states like Arizona and keep them purple, no amount of propaganda and rallies will save Trump from losing.
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