Time to pounce on Mbappe

Mr Nick09 wrote:the gambles were all right when we had a made team with world class players all over the place. but the young ones did not take the step we were expecting, biggest flops of them is Asensio, what a dud.

so now you sign big name players again.

titosantill wrote:completely hypothetical scenario, and mind you i don't think this is realistic but since we are on the mbappe thread i guess i wanted peoples' opinion. if psg said (which they most likely won't, at least not this year) , we'll listen to offers for mbappe starting at 300 million, would anyone here be opposed to madrid throwing our hat in the race? and how far would you want us to go?

second part of the question hints at, if they say they'll listen to offers at 300 mill, it means other clubs can join in the race to sign the kid upwards of that amount, to create some sort of bidding war. anyway, my take, yes make the move, and go as far as possible. which would mean negotiating something preferable with mbappe's people as well. what do you guys think?

Thimmy wrote:No one's complaining about the areas in where we succeeded. Some had expected Flo to be more proactive about the inevitable end of a cycle, that you're referring to.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:the only result that matters is our trophy case and we justified all of our sporting decisions on the pitch winning 4 Champions league, it's the only truth that matters.

It was an excellent plan.

This is wrong on so many levels. We won those CLs thanks to players who were bought before the policy changed.

This is the starting lineup of the CL final against Juventus:


Navas: decent (signed in 2014)
Carvajal: elite (homegrown talent)
Varane: elite (signed in 2011)
Ramos: elite (signed in 2005)
Marcelo: elite (signed in 2007)
Modric: elite (signed in 2012)
Kroos: elite (signed in 2014)
Case: decent (signed in 2013)
Ronaldo: elite (signed in 2009)
Isco: decent (signed in 2013)
Benzema: decent (signed in 2009)

All these players were signed before Madrid's change in policy, and they rode on their backs until they declined and became no longer elite without thinking about replacing them.

The success you're referring to was brought by those players, not the players we have been buying in recent years.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Thimmy wrote:No one's complaining about the areas in where we succeeded. Some had expected Flo to be more proactive about the inevitable end of a cycle, that you're referring to.

this part in red i have no problem arguing that with you, because at the end of the day, the merits of a strategy, again, is based on results. The club made a gamble to rely on your players to ensure the post CR transition, and it was miscalculated because those youngsters flopped and cowered away like Asensio. Specially when the older core stopped performing.

That was, quite honestly, an idiotic gamble. Even if Asensio had stepped up his level from the season before, he was simply never that type of player, and the left wing is clearly not his position. Lots of red flags there. We gambled on a bunch of dutch talent during the early 00s, then we moved on to Spanish talent during the early years of Flo's tenure. Did any of them pay off? We should gamble on young prospects, to some extent, but we should also learn from our mistakes. Young talent is insanely expensive nowadays, so our scouts have to pick carefully. Even with careful picking and choosing, and I don't think prioritizing prospects over established names is a reliable plan. Either way, the likes of Asensio was never going to fill a fraction of CR's shadow. How did he convince anyone that he could play at LW as well as an actual LW, let alone CR7?

I think a club of our standard should phase out veteran players naturally, like the very elite clubs traditionally do. We've already acquired a backup for Ramos, and I have no clue whether or not Militao is the real deal, but at least we have a plan B for our aging captain. City have been doing everything right, from phasing out older players to acquiring top talent and squad depth. They may not have won the Champions League yet, but their time will surely come with such impeccable club management. If they didn't learn from past mistakes, Pep is surely rectifying them.

But saying this, very much suggests that there was a method in how we signed young players in the past couple of years. We had a starting eleven with 8 or 9 genuine world elite players; they were european champions; and they thought the best way to back them up was signing very talented youngsters. simple as that.

Talented, Spanish youngsters, specifically. I'm not sure who does the scouting at our club, but aside from the obvious, nation-loved, top prospects like, Spain's Isco and Brazil's Vinicius, they've really not impressed anyone in picking and choosing from the less obvious hypejobs in the Spanish talent pool. In a sense, it might've been a good thing that we lost out on Neymar to Barcelona, because it seems Flo has realized that when the entire football nation of Brazil hype up one or two players, there's a good chance that at least one of them are the real deal.

We always have to keep the quota for Spanish players in mind, and that's a seperate discussion, but in terms of preparing for the now, we could've looked towards Germany and France for those young, backup players. You know, like Tottenham and Liverpool have been doing. I'd argue that Son Heung Min was very much a safe talent to bet on, already when he was at Leverkusen. Fast, technically adept, two-footed, excellent shot. You don't need a professional scout to spot talents like that. These days, Pochettino seems to get the credit for "turning him into" the player he is today. The likes of Kai Havertz and Julian Brandt look like similarly, safe talents to bet on. At some point in time, I wish we would've looked for players with their level of talent, rather than the middle drawer ones that are hyped up by the Spanish media.

I really do like certain things about Ceballos, Llorente.. and even Isco and Asensio, but none of them were ever going to serve as adequate replacements for our veteran players. I don't see any other explanation than us waiting for the inevitable moment when our 30+ ones started kicking the bucket one after the other, and that's not my idea of good preparation.

i am not arguing that he did not put a wrong foot, i am saying instead that they adopted a strategy, which did not bear the results we wanted post CR; it does not mean they have become incompetent, because, of this hiring policy, there are players we are genuinely excited about like Vinicus, like Brahim, Valverde, Rodrygo leaves, etc...

Brahim has surprised me, but he's far from proven at this point in time. I only recently learned that Vinicius and Rodrygo, like Neymar, are the top, top talents of Brazil, and so I suppose those two aren't as much of a gamble as initially assumed. I thought they were merely hyped up names in a pool of Brazilian talents, similarly to the Spanish prospects we've traditionally been signing. That said, I definitely think the most sensible thing to do when losing CR, would've been to find and adequately experienced replacement. I don't know how or who found it a sensible option to simply count on Asensio for that task.

Also, planning for a team that is coming from an historically great CL run is uncharted territory, there is no manual for such a situation. What do you do with your starters who won you 4 CLs, you throw them away? you tell them Pogba is now going to come in the club, make more money than them, and you put them on the bench? you guys make it sound like it's so easy to just turn over the team and create another winning cycle while you peacefully transition away from a generation of winners. it's not.

Thimmy wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Thimmy wrote:No one's complaining about the areas in where we succeeded. Some had expected Flo to be more proactive about the inevitable end of a cycle, that you're referring to.

this part in red i have no problem arguing that with you, because at the end of the day, the merits of a strategy, again, is based on results. The club made a gamble to rely on your players to ensure the post CR transition, and it was miscalculated because those youngsters flopped and cowered away like Asensio. Specially when the older core stopped performing.

That was, quite honestly, an idiotic gamble. Even if Asensio had stepped up his level from the season before, he was simply never that type of player, and the left wing is clearly not his position. Lots of red flags there. We gambled on a bunch of dutch talent during the early 00s, then we moved on to Spanish talent during the early years of Flo's tenure. Did any of them pay off? We should gamble on young prospects, to some extent, but we should also learn from our mistakes. Young talent is insanely expensive nowadays, so our scouts have to pick carefully. Even with careful picking and choosing, and I don't think prioritizing prospects over established names is a reliable plan. Either way, the likes of Asensio was never going to fill a fraction of CR's shadow. How did he convince anyone that he could play at LW as well as an actual LW, let alone CR7?

I think a club of our standard should phase out veteran players naturally, like the very elite clubs traditionally do. We've already acquired a backup for Ramos, and I have no clue whether or not Militao is the real deal, but at least we have a plan B for our aging captain. City have been doing everything right, from phasing out older players to acquiring top talent and squad depth. They may not have won the Champions League yet, but their time will surely come with such impeccable club management. If they didn't learn from past mistakes, Pep is surely rectifying them.

But saying this, very much suggests that there was a method in how we signed young players in the past couple of years. We had a starting eleven with 8 or 9 genuine world elite players; they were european champions; and they thought the best way to back them up was signing very talented youngsters. simple as that.

Talented, Spanish youngsters, specifically. I'm not sure who does the scouting at our club, but aside from the obvious, nation-loved, top prospects like, Spain's Isco and Brazil's Vinicius, they've really not impressed anyone in picking and choosing from the less obvious hypejobs in the Spanish talent pool. In a sense, it might've been a good thing that we lost out on Neymar to Barcelona, because it seems Flo has realized that when the entire football nation of Brazil hype up one or two players, there's a good chance that at least one of them are the real deal.

We always have to keep the quota for Spanish players in mind, and that's a seperate discussion, but in terms of preparing for the now, we could've looked towards Germany and France for those young, backup players. You know, like Tottenham and Liverpool have been doing. I'd argue that Son Heung Min was very much a safe talent to bet on, already when he was at Leverkusen. Fast, technically adept, two-footed, excellent shot. You don't need a professional scout to spot talents like that. These days, Pochettino seems to get the credit for "turning him into" the player he is today. The likes of Kai Havertz and Julian Brandt look like similarly, safe talents to bet on. At some point in time, I wish we would've looked for players with their level of talent, rather than the middle drawer ones that are hyped up by the Spanish media.

I really do like certain things about Ceballos, Llorente.. and even Isco and Asensio, but none of them were ever going to serve as adequate replacements for our veteran players. I don't see any other explanation than us waiting for the inevitable moment when our 30+ ones started kicking the bucket one after the other, and that's not my idea of good preparation.

i am not arguing that he did not put a wrong foot, i am saying instead that they adopted a strategy, which did not bear the results we wanted post CR; it does not mean they have become incompetent, because, of this hiring policy, there are players we are genuinely excited about like Vinicus, like Brahim, Valverde, Rodrygo leaves, etc...

Brahim has surprised me, but he's far from proven at this point in time. I only recently learned that Vinicius and Rodrygo, like Neymar, are the top, top talents of Brazil, and so I suppose those two aren't as much of a gamble as initially assumed. I thought they were merely hyped up names in a pool of Brazilian talents, similarly to the Spanish prospects we've traditionally been signing. That said, I definitely think the most sensible thing to do when losing CR, would've been to find and adequately experienced replacement. I don't know how or who found it a sensible option to simply count on Asensio for that task.

Also, planning for a team that is coming from an historically great CL run is uncharted territory, there is no manual for such a situation. What do you do with your starters who won you 4 CLs, you throw them away? you tell them Pogba is now going to come in the club, make more money than them, and you put them on the bench? you guys make it sound like it's so easy to just turn over the team and create another winning cycle while you peacefully transition away from a generation of winners. it's not.

I'm sleep deprived and tired of writing. You already know my feelings on Pogba. If we are going to get a player like him anyway, we better put together a winning team around him first, because over time, he'll drag us down if we don't. Happy to see Barcelona lose the copa to Valencia, after all their boasting about winning the double treble this season.

Thimmy wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Thimmy wrote:No one's complaining about the areas in where we succeeded. Some had expected Flo to be more proactive about the inevitable end of a cycle, that you're referring to.

this part in red i have no problem arguing that with you, because at the end of the day, the merits of a strategy, again, is based on results. The club made a gamble to rely on your players to ensure the post CR transition, and it was miscalculated because those youngsters flopped and cowered away like Asensio. Specially when the older core stopped performing.

That was, quite honestly, an idiotic gamble. Even if Asensio had stepped up his level from the season before, he was simply never that type of player, and the left wing is clearly not his position. Lots of red flags there. We gambled on a bunch of dutch talent during the early 00s, then we moved on to Spanish talent during the early years of Flo's tenure. Did any of them pay off? We should gamble on young prospects, to some extent, but we should also learn from our mistakes. Young talent is insanely expensive nowadays, so our scouts have to pick carefully. Even with careful picking and choosing, and I don't think prioritizing prospects over established names is a reliable plan. Either way, the likes of Asensio was never going to fill a fraction of CR's shadow. How did he convince anyone that he could play at LW as well as an actual LW, let alone CR7?

I think a club of our standard should phase out veteran players naturally, like the very elite clubs traditionally do. We've already acquired a backup for Ramos, and I have no clue whether or not Militao is the real deal, but at least we have a plan B for our aging captain. City have been doing everything right, from phasing out older players to acquiring top talent and squad depth. They may not have won the Champions League yet, but their time will surely come with such impeccable club management. If they didn't learn from past mistakes, Pep is surely rectifying them.

But saying this, very much suggests that there was a method in how we signed young players in the past couple of years. We had a starting eleven with 8 or 9 genuine world elite players; they were european champions; and they thought the best way to back them up was signing very talented youngsters. simple as that.

Talented, Spanish youngsters, specifically. I'm not sure who does the scouting at our club, but aside from the obvious, nation-loved, top prospects like, Spain's Isco and Brazil's Vinicius, they've really not impressed anyone in picking and choosing from the less obvious hypejobs in the Spanish talent pool. In a sense, it might've been a good thing that we lost out on Neymar to Barcelona, because it seems Flo has realized that when the entire football nation of Brazil hype up one or two players, there's a good chance that at least one of them are the real deal.

We always have to keep the quota for Spanish players in mind, and that's a seperate discussion, but in terms of preparing for the now, we could've looked towards Germany and France for those young, backup players. You know, like Tottenham and Liverpool have been doing. I'd argue that Son Heung Min was very much a safe talent to bet on, already when he was at Leverkusen. Fast, technically adept, two-footed, excellent shot. You don't need a professional scout to spot talents like that. These days, Pochettino seems to get the credit for "turning him into" the player he is today. The likes of Kai Havertz and Julian Brandt look like similarly, safe talents to bet on. At some point in time, I wish we would've looked for players with their level of talent, rather than the middle drawer ones that are hyped up by the Spanish media.

I really do like certain things about Ceballos, Llorente.. and even Isco and Asensio, but none of them were ever going to serve as adequate replacements for our veteran players. I don't see any other explanation than us waiting for the inevitable moment when our 30+ ones started kicking the bucket one after the other, and that's not my idea of good preparation.

i am not arguing that he did not put a wrong foot, i am saying instead that they adopted a strategy, which did not bear the results we wanted post CR; it does not mean they have become incompetent, because, of this hiring policy, there are players we are genuinely excited about like Vinicus, like Brahim, Valverde, Rodrygo leaves, etc...

Brahim has surprised me, but he's far from proven at this point in time. I only recently learned that Vinicius and Rodrygo, like Neymar, are the top, top talents of Brazil, and so I suppose those two aren't as much of a gamble as initially assumed. I thought they were merely hyped up names in a pool of Brazilian talents, similarly to the Spanish prospects we've traditionally been signing. That said, I definitely think the most sensible thing to do when losing CR, would've been to find and adequately experienced replacement. I don't know how or who found it a sensible option to simply count on Asensio for that task.

Also, planning for a team that is coming from an historically great CL run is uncharted territory, there is no manual for such a situation. What do you do with your starters who won you 4 CLs, you throw them away? you tell them Pogba is now going to come in the club, make more money than them, and you put them on the bench? you guys make it sound like it's so easy to just turn over the team and create another winning cycle while you peacefully transition away from a generation of winners. it's not.

I'm sleep deprived and tired of writing. You already know my feelings on Pogba. If we are going to get a player like him anyway, we better put together a winning team around him first, because over time, he'll drag us down if we don't. Happy to see Barcelona lose the copa to Valencia, after all their boasting about winning the double treble this season.