Time to sell Messi

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Post by futbol on Fri May 10, 2019 8:09 pm

It's not like he is at fault individually for anything, he played a great season but he also does not guarantee CL success and even if he is still in his prime, in 2 years he won't be anyway. I'm also bored of these mechanics: "Messi dropping to center circle, passing ball to Alba, running into box to get cutback" + forced to play 4-4-2 with no right winger + 10 men moving off the ball offensively and defensively.

I mean CL we ain't winning anyway and if we don't win La Liga, it doesn't matter either as we have to rebuild after him anyway + we've won a lot of it in the last decade. Whether we sell now or in 2 years doesn't make much of a difference. Except now we can cash in for him for a good price.

So getting € 150M for him + getting rid of his 100M wages a year should be his last great sacrifice for our rebuild. Ideally he could go to Man United and help them become competitive again + prove himself on a cold night at Stoke. Win-win for everyone.

Opinions?

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri May 10, 2019 8:12 pm

Kids do not do drugs

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri May 10, 2019 8:26 pm

I think it could make sense if barca ever intended in cashing out in him it's either now or never. But I don't think he will ever be forced out since that's political suicide for the president

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Post by futbol on Fri May 10, 2019 8:37 pm

He is turning 32 next month, after the CL exit he will also get rekt in the Copa America as usual. Perfect timing to cash in. Even if he stays he will not give us more than 2 more seasons. But with 34 we ain't getting nothing for him. So rather now.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri May 10, 2019 8:37 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Kids do not do drugs


Don't they??

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Post by Thimmy on Fri May 10, 2019 8:42 pm

Somehow, I don't think Messi has any intention of leaving. He seems quite comfortable where he is, and I'd be surprised if he doesn't retire at Barca. The club won't force him out.

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Post by Nishankly on Fri May 10, 2019 9:07 pm

----> Move to GS

Agreed, man's a waste of space, should have got that away goal against LFC alone. How has he not won a Euro? ffs
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Post by Unique on Fri May 10, 2019 10:11 pm

no trolling here but if barca sell messi before they replace him they will go down the pan. suarez is not the player he once was. coutinho is finished at barca. dembele is a sick note and the barca MF are not great. messi is barca.

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Post by Unique on Fri May 10, 2019 10:14 pm

@futbol wrote:It's not like he is at fault individually for anything, he played a great season but he also does not guarantee CL success and even if he is still in his prime, in 2 years he won't be anyway. I'm also bored of these mechanics: "Messi dropping to center circle, passing ball to Alba, running into box to get cutback" + forced to play 4-4-2 with no right winger + 10 men moving off the ball offensively and defensively.

I mean CL we ain't winning anyway and if we don't win La Liga, it doesn't matter either as we have to rebuild after him anyway + we've won a lot of it in the last decade. Whether we sell now or in 2 years doesn't make much of a difference. Except now we can cash in for him for a good price.

So getting € 150M for him + getting rid of his 100M wages a year should be his last great sacrifice for our rebuild. Ideally he could go to Man United and help them become competitive again + prove himself on a cold night at Stoke. Win-win for everyone.

Opinions?
just because robertson and then milner had him in the top pocket dont mean he is finished just yet.









yes. that one was trolling. Laughing

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Post by Cruijf on Fri May 10, 2019 10:48 pm

Barca without Messi would struggle for top 4 in La Liga, and I’m dead serious.

Having said that I understand the logic behind the idea. You’re gonna have to rebuild soon anyway, you might as well do it now and cash in while he’s still the best in the world. The problem though is your board is second to none when it comes to wasting money, so it’s not like you’re gonna use the funds well. The better bet would be to make some much needed signings in defence and midfield and try to make use of the next 2-3 years to at least get one more CL. As embarrassing as the Liverpool capitulation was, you were actually quite close this year. A better manager and 1-2 good signings and you could win next year.


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Post by Myesyats on Fri May 10, 2019 11:19 pm

@futbol wrote:I'm also bored of these mechanics: "Messi dropping to center circle, passing ball to Alba, running into box to get cutback"

It's eerie how you nearly always hit the nail exactly on the head. This is essentially our entire tactics squeezed into one sentence. It amuses me how people have the nerve to claim Valverde is a great tactician.

Agree 100%. I'd use the money to try & bring Neymar back and build around him.
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Post by alexjanosik on Fri May 10, 2019 11:36 pm

@futbol wrote:It's not like he is at fault individually for anything, he played a great season but he also does not guarantee CL success and even if he is still in his prime, in 2 years he won't be anyway. I'm also bored of these mechanics: "Messi dropping to center circle, passing ball to Alba, running into box to get cutback" + forced to play 4-4-2 with no right winger + 10 men moving off the ball offensively and defensively.

I mean CL we ain't winning anyway and if we don't win La Liga, it doesn't matter either as we have to rebuild after him anyway + we've won a lot of it in the last decade. Whether we sell now or in 2 years doesn't make much of a difference. Except now we can cash in for him for a good price.

So getting € 150M for him + getting rid of his 100M wages a year should be his last great sacrifice for our rebuild. Ideally he could go to Man United and help them become competitive again + prove himself on a cold night at Stoke. Win-win for everyone.

Opinions?


Yes. We should sell him for a multitude of reasons. Primary one being, with him gone we can go back to a 4-3-3 and more back to basic football. We can try to incorporate pressing and attacking and defending as a unit into our game. End of the one dimensional tactics of pass to Alba and cutback. It will unleash the other players in our squad.
We get good money for him, can bring in an able replacement while significantly cutting down on wages. I dont agree that we wont compete without him. Thats just ridiculous. Freaking Tottenham and Ajax made the CL SF's. Its all about the team and not the individual.

Will never happen since it will be political suicide.

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Post by Doc on Fri May 10, 2019 11:39 pm

Selling Messi now, in this current juncture, is an impossible task. Logic behind is not that dumb at all or drug influenced but him being statistically your best performing player, a player where fans have literally made him more than the club, anyone from upper management who has thoughts about selling him or actually put action behind it is gonna have to put in his resignation papers one time.

He is a tactical conundrum but he is also your greatest player ever still very much doing really great things. His political clout at the club is 2nd to none too so, oof, yeah, now is not a good time at all lol.




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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat May 11, 2019 12:50 am

@Cruijf wrote:Having said that I understand the logic behind the idea. You’re gonna have to rebuild soon anyway, you might as well do it now and cash in while he’s still the best in the world. The problem though is your board is second to none when it comes to wasting money, so it’s not like you’re gonna use the funds well.


This is very true lol. Watch us spend the 150 we get on Messi on MDL and Griezman.

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Post by futbol on Sat May 11, 2019 1:10 am

@Cruijf wrote:Barca without Messi would struggle for top 4 in La Liga, and I’m dead serious.

Having said that I understand the logic behind the idea. You’re gonna have to rebuild soon anyway, you might as well do it now and cash in while he’s still the best in the world. The problem though is your board is second to none when it comes to wasting money, so it’s not like you’re gonna use the funds well. The better bet would be to make some much needed signings in defence and midfield and try to make use of the next 2-3 years to at least get one more CL. As embarrassing as the Liverpool capitulation was, you were actually quite close this year. A better manager and 1-2 good signings and you could win next year.  



A bit overdramatic if you think we wouldn't reach 60 points to pip Getafe. In fact, taking away Griezmann from Atletico would certainly make us top 2 even if we simply replaced Messi with Griezmann (which is not what I prefer).

But your idea that we wouldn't be able to compete with Getafe sums up the Messi problem. They let him do everything in La Liga, he can dribble 3 Alaves or Huesca players week in week out. Then comes a decent CL team with intensity and he can't replicate that and the rest of the team don't know what else to do as they are used to just giving the ball to Messi in La Liga every week and watch him pass the ball to Alba back and forth, which works in Lol Liga like a charm.

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Post by Unique on Sat May 11, 2019 2:50 am

@futbol wrote:
@Cruijf wrote:Barca without Messi would struggle for top 4 in La Liga, and I’m dead serious.

Having said that I understand the logic behind the idea. You’re gonna have to rebuild soon anyway, you might as well do it now and cash in while he’s still the best in the world. The problem though is your board is second to none when it comes to wasting money, so it’s not like you’re gonna use the funds well. The better bet would be to make some much needed signings in defence and midfield and try to make use of the next 2-3 years to at least get one more CL. As embarrassing as the Liverpool capitulation was, you were actually quite close this year. A better manager and 1-2 good signings and you could win next year.  



A bit overdramatic if you think we wouldn't reach 60 points to pip Getafe. In fact, taking away Griezmann from Atletico would certainly make us top 2 even if we simply replaced Messi with Griezmann (which is not what I prefer).

But your idea that we wouldn't be able to compete with Getafe sums up the Messi problem. They let him do everything in La Liga, he can dribble 3 Alaves or Huesca players week in week out. Then comes a decent CL team with intensity and he can't replicate that and the rest of the team don't know what else to do as they are used to just giving the ball to Messi in La Liga every week and watch him pass the ball to Alba back and forth, which works in Lol Liga like a charm.
2 weeks ago you were talking about how you have already won the treble and you will see us next season. now messi if finished and you want to sell him when he is the only player you have that can change a game for you. pls dont tell me you are another glory hunting fan from denmark or something. Laughing

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Post by windkick on Sat May 11, 2019 3:59 am

Messi isn’t the problem. Not replacing Alves, Xavi, Iniesta, getting a mobile/versatile CDM to challenge Busqs YEARS ago has caught up to this club that has still been relying on the same names since Pep was around. You can also throw in Neymar and his father made a decision to leave that both the club AND Neymar both came out losers in. Not having a leader once Masch left also didn’t help (that’s something you either are or aren’t, you can’t expect Messi to have EVERYTHING). And not having a fearless manager who knows how to rev up our players, something EV doesn’t have.

To point the finger at the guy that literally carried us to the semis and to a what looks like a league double, and likely Euro Golden shoe winner and one of the top assists and chances created in Europe, is pretty silly. Without Messi we would be in dire shape. The issue is the board not knowing how to build a team since Pep left. Getting guys like Arda, Mathieu, Douglas, Gomes, Vidal etc while the team kept aging. Those are all bigger problems than Messi only playing in the CAM/CF line with no pressing. With what Messi brings to the table, a proper team around him and you got a winning formula.

If you want to do something drastic sell Suarez, Coutinho and Busqs.

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Post by futbol on Sat May 11, 2019 11:55 am

Where do you see me pointing the finger at Messi or blaming him for anything? We will be worse off, especially domestically for 1 or 2 seasons, that's clear. I'm merely pointing out that we can safe us about half a billion Euros when selling now instead of 2021/2022. Right now he would bring in 150 million Euros in transfer fee + getting rid of 100 million Euros wages per season and I don't think 2 more seasons of Messi is worth those costs.

This season or the next one we will go trophyless regardless of Messi as statistically winning 4 leagues in a row seems unlikely to me. So realistically we will pay half a billion Euros for 1 more league title. Not worth it.

It's a pure financial thought, nothing to do with "Mess is at fault".

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Post by Thimmy on Sat May 11, 2019 12:17 pm

Juventus "only" paid 100m for Cristiano Ronaldo, and he still looks relatively sharp despite approaching 35. I wouldn't be surprised if PSG or City would be willing to pay more than 150 euros for soon to be 32 year old Messi.

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Post by alexjanosik on Sat May 11, 2019 3:30 pm

@windkick wrote:Messi isn’t the problem. Not replacing Alves, Xavi, Iniesta, getting a mobile/versatile CDM to challenge Busqs YEARS ago has caught up to this club that has still been relying on the same names since Pep was around. You can also throw in Neymar and his father made a decision to leave that both the club AND Neymar both came out losers in. Not having a leader once Masch left also didn’t help (that’s something you either are or aren’t, you can’t expect Messi to have EVERYTHING). And not having a fearless manager who knows how to rev up our players, something EV doesn’t have.

To point the finger at the guy that literally carried us to the semis and to a what looks like a league double, and likely Euro Golden shoe winner and one of the top assists and chances created in Europe, is pretty silly. Without Messi we would be in dire shape. The issue is the board not knowing how to build a team since Pep left. Getting guys like Arda, Mathieu, Douglas, Gomes, Vidal etc while the team kept aging. Those are all bigger problems than Messi only playing in the CAM/CF line with no pressing. With what Messi brings to the table, a proper team around him and you got a winning formula.

If you want to do something drastic sell Suarez, Coutinho and Busqs.


He has had a great season and made tremendous contributions to the league title and CL run.
However, as the last 7 CL seasons have shown(barring the treble season with MSN), hero ball or Messi ball doesnt work at the grandest of stages. And that is not his fault.
Despite the Maradona comparisons, we used to remark that Messi is the successor to Cruyff more than Maradona. He played false 9 and his game resembled Johan more than any other player in history.

Well, over the years Messi has become more and more like Maradona and less and less like Cruyff. He now plays exactly like an old school number 10 like Maradona. He plays in between the lines and demands that everything go through him. At the elite level, an old school number 10 just doesnt work. Even one as good as Messi. It might have worked in the days of Maradona, Zico, Platini etc when players had 10 yards of space either side of them. Where teams allowed space to the likes of Maradona to do their thing. Give me the ball and watch what happens kind of thing. Just doesnt work in the modern game when the lights are turned on brightest.

Point is that as great as he is and as well as he plays, he moves us away from our natural game and creates structural issues at the elite level. It's not a criticism per se of him. Just a structural and tactical observation.

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Post by windkick on Sat May 11, 2019 4:07 pm

I get that. But my point is he wasn’t at fault in either leg vs Liverpool. Coutinho, Suarez, Sergi and Buqs are all players who should be singled out ahead of Messi. Suarez only scored 1 goal this UCL, and only 1 goal last season UCL. Coutinho was a ghost. The midfield got over ran and Sergi couldn’t handle the speed that came at him. All those are things that have been huge issues for us and against Pool they were exposed. Yet somehow Messi is singled out. I agree Messi brings is problems but those problems are the reason why we are playing bad or collapsing. If players need to go, which they do, he should be the last in line

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Post by BarcaLearning on Sat May 11, 2019 6:44 pm

I get the logic of the recoup a lot of money and lower the wage bill, but realistically, the club is just not gonna do it obviously. Hes still got a few years left it appears since hes all good all round and he loves football too much to give up so soon. He has his negative influences, but his positives far outweighs anything else. Im sure any team in the world would love to have him without a seconds thought. So yea we could sell him for a lot and save a lot, adding up to half a B, but many clubs and definitely Barca isnt just about that, and dont work like that.
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Post by Kebab on Thu May 16, 2019 12:28 pm

I get that fingers always pointed at the president, coach and the best player but do you really believe that new team will dominate football like this barcelona did? That will never happen. Look at PSG, M.City even Juventus, they buy every player and try to build a new strong team, but what they get is domestic cups. What will make that future new Barca without Messi different from them?

Instead of believing in tales, enjoy the best player you will ever watch and in future tell your kids that you watched him live

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