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Post by The Madrid One on Sun May 05, 2019 10:11 am

You have prejudices in favor of the french Sports Laughing

This PC crap clouds the analysis as much as any prejudice. There is some truth to it but it runs the risk of being used to ignore actually valid criticism.


Last edited by The Madrid One on Sun May 05, 2019 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun May 05, 2019 10:15 am

yep, that's why I prefer Pepe, Ndombele and Mendy and would kill to sign Kante. It's because they are white with blue eyes and blond hair.

Please don't stoop so low as to play the race card with me.

I have already explained why I don't rate Pogba and don't want him to come to Madrid, and it has nothing to do with his skin tone or race.

The guy has got his ego inflated to epic proportions from years and years of people blowing smoke up his ass and a transfer bounty that far exceeds his talent and/or worth. He has been nothing but an unprofessional piece of garbage at United and it had nothing to do with Mourinho, Ole or the Glazers.

He should've auditioned for a role in The Walking Dead as one of the walkers because no one walks more than him on the field.

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Post by rincon on Sun May 05, 2019 10:30 am

Calling me a butthurt fan and making it a racial thing Laughing

I have always been a Pogba fan. Always point out his potential and defended him at the start for United, until his attitude became indefensible. I would even take him back as Juve is the right environment.

Calling people racist over Pogba, the french bias knows no bounds.
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Post by sportsczy on Sun May 05, 2019 12:07 pm

@The Madrid One wrote:You have prejudices in favor of the french Sports Laughing

This PC crap clouds the analysis as much as any prejudice. There is some truth to it but it runs the risk of being used to ignore actually valid criticism.

He has his faults. Namely, as Deschamps figured out QUICKLY, you need to make him feel important, he needs to get challenged and he won't self motivate.

In essence, he's won't give 100% to fight for a top 4 spot and play underdog in CL. He will give 100% if his team is contending for important titles.

Call it what you want... that's how he is. He's never going to take a mid table team like Man U to new heights. But he will make an elite team much better.

Oh and he also needs to respect his teammates' abilities... not personality, but footballing abilities.

Quirky guy. But immensely talented and has shown his worth on the biggest of stages numerous times.

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Post by sportsczy on Sun May 05, 2019 12:11 pm

@rincon wrote:Calling me a butthurt fan and making it a racial thing Laughing

I have always been a Pogba fan. Always point out his potential and defended him at the start for United, until his attitude became indefensible. I would even take him back as Juve is the right environment.

Calling people racist over Pogba, the french bias knows no bounds.

The racial part wasn't directed at you specifically.  I'm just commenting that almost everyone (including myself) are unwitting victims of social prejudice to one degree or another.

For example, white people get the benefit of the doubt while darker folk start with the notion that they're a lazy/thug/terrorist/etc until proven otherwise.

Pogba is absolutely a victim of this to some extent.

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Post by Freeza on Sun May 05, 2019 12:14 pm

@Doc wrote:@Freeza
One, Xabi Alonso was a very good footballer and I would not have you make him seem like he was Lucas Vasquez in the midfield good sir. I would not have it I say.
Two, if Pogba looked different? As in, if he weren't black? Is this what you're implying?!

Does De Ligt even want to come to Real Madrid? I feel if it is not Barca, he'll just chill in Amsterdam for the foreseeable future. Militao ain't kick a ball for us yet DoC, don't be so harsh. As for Mbappe, we wanted one thing and he wanted another. It is what it is.


Xabi was seen as expendable is Liverpool. He was good but never a world beater.

There’s so much clouded judgment.

And there’s been plenty of criticism about Pogba about a lot things that have had nothing to with his playstyle.

His hair (how he looks), him dabbing etc. All things used to discredit his incredible ability.

I’m the biggest Eriksen fan on here, and Pogba is better for me. I just don’t think anyone on here has judges him fairly, and I’m not quite sure as to why that is.

People on here love Hazard and he’s shown much more suspicious attitude in media in regards to transfers to Madrid etc.


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Post by Thimmy on Sun May 05, 2019 12:29 pm

That's not the kind of attitude I've been referring to. Sports pretty much summed it up, although I'm not sure if I buy the psychoanalysis. Bottom line, he clearly doesn't perform unless he's motivated. No one ever questioned his talent. As much as his change of hairstyle has been subject to banter, it makes no difference unless it somehow affects his performance. Pogba put in a decent shift against Huddersfield today. He even hit the bar with one of his fifty long-ranged shots. Still got outshone by 19 year old, Tahit Chong :coffee:


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Post by Valkyrja on Sun May 05, 2019 12:29 pm

David Neres el fichaje con el que Real Madrid olvidaría a Bale.

Good choice for RW

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun May 05, 2019 12:36 pm

Neres is a very decent RW choice, i would rather give Brahim a chance than sign him.

Anyway, our non-Eu slots are full with Vinicius, Militao and Rodrygo. We can't sign another non-EU player

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Post by sportsczy on Sun May 05, 2019 12:40 pm

If Zidane weren't the manager, Ramos wasn't captain and Varane weren't here... I'd worry a bit. But he was a lot of people whom he highly respects and demand respect to whom he needs to answer to on a daily basis.

Not to mention if we bring in Hazard.

In short, he won't be the unquestioned top dog at Madrid... similar to Juve. He's going to need to outshine several of his teammates for that. At Man U, he could suck as bad as he wanted but still be the best player on the pitch for Man U.

Pogba is a guy who constantly has to feel the pressure to prove himself to teammates and to people he respects. That's what the French media have said for a while now. Griezmann is too laid back to call Pogba out. But Mbappe is not. Kante just outplayed him. Varane called him out in fact. Etc. He became the player he did for France NT because he had to in order to maintain his status.

I hope this makes sense. Pogba is all about status. Madrid will force him to give his best so that he can achieve the status he wants/needs.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun May 05, 2019 1:23 pm

@sportsczy wrote:you need to make him feel important, he needs to get challenged and he won't self motivate.

In essence, he's won't give 100% to fight for a top 4 spot and play underdog in CL.  He will give 100% if his team is contending for important titles.

@Thimmy wrote:That's not the kind of attitude I've been referring to. Sports pretty much summed it up, although I'm not sure if I buy the psychoanalysis. Bottom line, he clearly doesn't perform unless he's motivated.

Let's talk about this theory for a second because it's quite disturbing. You're essentially telling me that whoever signs Pogba, they need to be prepared for the following:

1. In addition to splurging a small country's GDP to sign him and giving him a massive salary, he also needs other reasons to be motivated to do the job which you signed him for (because the massive salary is not motivating enough apparently).

2. You have to constantly remind him of how important he is, otherwise he will lose motivation and withdraw into his own shell of suckage.

3. If you're struggling as a team, don't count on him to pull you back. In fact, you better not be placed outside of the top two because he won't bother do his job if you're not already a title contender or a CL contender.

4. He'll shine in a team of world beaters where his contributions aren't much needed and his absence won't be felt or noticed. If you, however, put him in a team where his contributions are much needed, he'll not perform.

Do you see the conundrum here? Do you realize that this theory does more harm to him than good? If I were a Pogba supporter, I wouldn't use this argument even if it was true because it further solidifies his critics' fears that he's nothing but an overpriced, overpaid, inconsistent prima donna with an ego that far exceeds his talent and true worth.

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Post by sportsczy on Sun May 05, 2019 2:07 pm

So do all players DoC.  If you're playing with teammates and a club that play beneath your level, you lose motivation and impact for a lot of reasons.  Messi doesn't play better for Argentina... he plays far worse.  CR isn't playing better for Juve... he's having his worse year statistically in forever (early Man U years).

As far as players turning it off...  Neymar turns it off with PSG once they're out of CL and won the league.  He barely plays.

Hazard has to be in god mode for Chelsea to play well.  His teammates aren't that great.  So people tag him as "inconsistent" when the problem is that he cannot play at anything else than peak level for Chelsea to play well... similar to Pogba.

Mbappe has scored a ton of goals.  But he doesn't appear to be playing as well.  It has nothing to do with him.  His teammates just can't get him the ball a lot and the level dropped off a cliff with all the injuries.  Again, he has to be in god mode for PSG to compete at the highest level and that's impossible.

on and on.

I don't understand what you guys are watching.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun May 05, 2019 2:59 pm

by the way, i think that if we dont sign Pogba, Zidane will try to get Pjanic, not Eriksen...

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Post by vanDEEZ on Sun May 05, 2019 4:32 pm

If we go for Pjanic, we might as well just keep Kroos instead. Pjanic is much more similar to Kroos than Pogba. And Eriksen is much more similar to Pogba than Pjanic.

Pjanic is 2 years older than Eriksen and while Eriksen will have 1 year left on his contract Pjanic's contract runs until 2023 and he shows no sign of being unhappy at Juve. Doesn't add up to me.
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Post by titosantill on Sun May 05, 2019 4:59 pm

To be honest, I'm more worried about what hazard brings to the table than I am of pogba. Almost every check box that needs to be ticked as a cmf, pogba does. It's one thing if it was us just randomly going for him. But if this is zidane's call, he probably has plans for him ala deschamps in France.

I too think pogba is better than eriksen, but all these things are very difficult to make sense of the way the season has gone for us as well as the team pogba is on

And for the record I'm still not buying that we have signed anyone yet until I see a press conference and a jersey presentation
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Post by rincon on Sun May 05, 2019 5:12 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:If we go for Pjanic, we might as well just keep Kroos instead. Pjanic is much more similar to Kroos than Pogba. And Eriksen is much more similar to Pogba than Pjanic.

Pjanic is 2 years older than Eriksen and while Eriksen will have 1 year left on his contract Pjanic's contract runs until 2023 and he shows no sign of being unhappy at Juve. Doesn't add up to me.

Pjanic isn't unhappy at all, the relationship is good, but he might be the one sold to fund our transfers. There are enough rumors about it and Pjanic has said he is open to a new club as long as all parties agree. The bid would be huge though.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Sun May 05, 2019 5:31 pm

@tito what is wrong with Hazard? I think I read today that he is the only player in Europe's top leagues with 15+ goals and 15+ assists. The guy is bossing and is willing to do anything to come here.
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Post by sportsczy on Sun May 05, 2019 5:53 pm

Only way Pogba would have stayed in Man U is if they made CL...  it's pretty much a done deal from reports.  Only variable is the price.  They want 190 mil we're offering 120.  My guess is that it gets done around the 150 mil range.

Before people go crazy... he's only 26.  He has resale value.  So if Pogba doesn't come good over the next 2-3 years (before he turns 30), then we'll get a good amount of our coin back by moving him.  That's why he demands such a high price.

Different thing with Hazard.  He's in his last contract year and he's 28.  So whatever we pay for him is going to be quite close to our net cost even if he doesn't meet expectations.

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Post by sportsczy on Sun May 05, 2019 5:59 pm

You put Pogba right behind Hazard (for them to combine) and play Vini on the opposite side (for Pogba to send long passes if it's crowded) + have Casemiro cover the DM spot = deadly combo.

That's what Deschamps did with him on NT.  He had Griezmann play close to him for tight space combos and Mbappe made his crazy fast runs over the top.  Kante covered defensively to give Pogba time to come back and do his job.  

My biggest concern is Vini's final product (nowhere near Mbappe's obviously).  So we do need a winger that is more of a finished product.

I'd also like a targetman CF in this scenario to hold the ball and occupy the CBs.  You don't need a CF that dezones much when you have 2 playmakers already.  Hope Benzema is up to it... but it's a risk.  Getting another CF is critical who has more of a box and scorer's mentality.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun May 05, 2019 6:11 pm

@sportsczy wrote:You put Pogba right behind Hazard (for them to combine) and play Vini on the opposite side (for Pogba to send long passes if it's crowded) + have Casemiro cover the DM spot = deadly combo.

That's what Deschamps did with him on NT.  He had Griezmann play close to him for tight space combos and Mbappe made his crazy fast runs over the top.  Kante covered defensively to give Pogba time to come back and do his job.  

My biggest concern is Vini's final product (nowhere near Mbappe's obviously).  So we do need a winger that is more of a finished product.

I'd also like a targetman CF in this scenario to hold the ball and occupy the CBs.  You don't need a CF that dezones much when you have 2 playmakers already.  Hope Benzema is up to it... but it's a risk.  Getting another CF is critical who has more of a box and scorer's mentality.
so this here is the problem of signing Pogba, asking for everyone else to make adjustements and change how they play to accomodate him. He has not earned that, he needs to come in, slot in, and adapt. This is also part of being a great player. If we are signing Pogba, and he does not grow more than he currently is, then it's a terrible mistake.

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Post by titosantill on Sun May 05, 2019 6:23 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:@tito what is wrong with Hazard? I think I read today that he is the only player in Europe's top leagues with 15+ goals and 15+ assists. The guy is bossing and is willing to do anything to come here.


nothing is wrong with him. i'll definitely welcome any help we can get. just never been a fan of his that's all. can't like everyone. however, it doesn't take much for me to become a fan; if he comes and he starts giving us crucial points with his play, i'll be a fan instantly
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Post by titosantill on Sun May 05, 2019 6:32 pm

i don't see the need for pogba to adapt to anything. if he was joining the team that won the league and ucl 2 yrs ago, then maybe. but right now anyone who comes, whoever is here, especially in that tired a** midfield we have, will have to adapt to the new talent coming in (whether or not its pogba).
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Post by sportsczy on Sun May 05, 2019 7:20 pm

I'd agree with you Nick except our midfield has been utter shit this season and Pogba would be the clear best player there.  So I'd build that zone around him for sure. I'm not saying to build the team around him (which would be stupid)... but to build each zone around the best player there (in this case midfield). Within reason of course. Every player needs to compromise. But you ask the best ones to compromise the least.

Edit:  basically what tito said lol

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Post by Cyborg on Sun May 05, 2019 7:55 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@The Madrid One wrote:You have prejudices in favor of the french Sports Laughing

This PC crap clouds the analysis as much as any prejudice. There is some truth to it but it runs the risk of being used to ignore actually valid criticism.

He has his faults. Namely, as Deschamps figured out QUICKLY, you need to make him feel important, he needs to get challenged and he won't self motivate.

In essence, he's won't give 100% to fight for a top 4 spot and play underdog in CL. He will give 100% if his team is contending for important titles.

Call it what you want... that's how he is. He's never going to take a mid table team like Man U to new heights. But he will make an elite team much better.

Oh and he also needs to respect his teammates' abilities... not personality, but footballing abilities.

Quirky guy. But immensely talented and has shown his worth on the biggest of stages numerous times.


Lol this is exactly why I don't want Pogba on any team I support.

You said he won't give 100% if it's not a big match.

Who wants that player in their team? Piss poor attitude

He is a diva. A primadonna. And that's based on what you said about him.

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Post by Freeza on Sun May 05, 2019 7:59 pm

That's not at all what Sports said lol

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Post by titosantill on Sun May 05, 2019 9:41 pm

https://www.marca.com/en/football/real-madrid/2019/05/05/5ccf1216268e3e3f188b45fd.html

as a real madrid fan, its these kind of headlines that scare me. the season's over, its villareal, who mind you are 15th on the table, and someone who's supposed to be a professional is saying we may be cool going into a 60 plus game season with valverde? fact is, we need reshuffling whether it be pogba or any other top midfielder, we cannot take unnecessary risks cos of a win against freaking villareal after the season's ended

i won't have been as pissed, considering i expect very little from the tabloids and so called "experts". but what bothers me is, this kind of mentality is extremely plausible, and we've seen it happen at madrid time and again. nothing wrong in valverde staying and showing us he can compete with whoever comes in. that should be the mindset, promoting competition
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