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Post by LeVersacci Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:00 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Last game with Torb or wtf you spell it I got 3 golds and a silver Laughing

Gun is ace.
If you love Torb then you should have seen him pre nerf & before the 1 hero lock Laughing

Here's an example


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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:04 pm

All about when this happened.

General Games Discussion - Page 19 CiCvpj_XIAI5Cf2

Unreal banter.
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Post by LeVersacci Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:05 pm

rofl
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Post by Lord Spencer Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:18 am

#19

Game: Ecco: The Tides of Time.
Year: 1994.
Genre: Action Adventure.
Publisher: Sega.
Developer: Novotrade International.

General Games Discussion - Page 19 Gen_ecco_the_tides_of_time_p_mv67mn

First things first, I am changing my rating system to better rate different genres according to their own rules. It will still be from 50 quality points, but every title will start from 25 and earn/lose points according to criteria important to the titles and genres themselves.

The two Ecco games are probably one of the most unique games on the Genesis. Water levels in other games are usually described as the weakest parts, but here is a game about Dolphins composed entirely of water levels. It's also a game about a dolphin that looks like a dolphin, not a mascot character.

It is a testament to the skills of its development team that Ecco not only manages to be unique game, but also actually fun and worth playing.

"Now we hear songs of fear from the north"

When games starring Ninjas, Knights, and soldiers rarely got a story in the 16bit era, it is very surprising that Ecco: The Tides of Time attempts to craft an actual narrative around the game. As a sequel to the first Ecco game, The Tides of Time begins after Ecco defeated the Vortex aliens that threatened his world before.

Yet, due to some time machine mumbo jumbo, the Vortex are back with a vengeance, and Ecco will need to travel through the past and the future to face their threat.

In the course of the game, you will travel to a utopian Dolphin time, where flying Dolphins rule both sea and air, as well as into dark oceans where the Cthulhu-like aliens suck you into alternate dimensions.

One nice detail that is consistent throughout the game is its attempt to use known qualities of dolphins in its telling. For instance, all communication between Ecco and his allies is through song, which is how dolphins communicate in reality.

There is a Story: +2
Varied Locations: +2

"Return to your time and stop the Vortex before they take root upon the Earth"

In traveling through the varied locations, the entire game will depend on how you adjust to swimming your way through them. Since all levels are in water in some form, Ecco can swim in all 8 directions in 2D space.

Except, swimming is programed with inertia and position in mind. This means that abruptly changing directions will reduce your speed, but moving within a smooth curve can allow you to change directions without losing momentum.

It has a natural feeling to it, and so I got used to it fast. It might still cause you some frustration when you need to build up speed just before a sharp turn in order to jump over some obstacle in the water, but you will probably get used to it.

Other than swimming around, Ecco will have to deal with some enemies, as well as consistently look for air sources. Being Mammals, dolphins actually breathe air, and so trying to fill the air meter in-game is a constant source of positive tension.

Enemies in the other hand are more nuisance than fun to deal with. Due to the way Ecco moves, it is sometimes incredibly difficult to tackle a shark two times to defeat it. It is even worse if your double-tap didn't register, because that shark will then bounce right back.

This leads to a difficult game becoming more difficult, especially in regards to the final boss which can  almost be unbeatable if you don't figure out the only safe spot where you attack it from.

Fun Swimming Controls: +3
Managing Air Supply: +2
Weak Combat: -2

"I am from the distant future, or one possible future"

While The Tides of Time basically introduces all of its gameplay tricks in the first few levels, it manages to use them in a variety of ways in 30 levels without introducing much new.

Most levels are labyrinth of sorts, with Ecco looking for key stone to progress, or helping some sea creature who will return the favor. In the larger levels of this kind, it is sometimes difficult to get a grasp of your surroundings, or to know what you need to do to progress. Ecco can hold the sonar button to get a map of his surroundings, but the map is not detailed enough in some case.

Ecco is best in stages where it deviates from the maze structure. In one stage, you are swimming through a skyline while some giant squid thing chases you around. In another, you are being carried from one sky pool to another by one of those utopian dolphin creatures.

It is surprising how much mileage Novotrade International got from such a basic premise.

One reason the entire design works is because of the challenge in the game. Its not an easy game, and there is always the possibility of dying mid-course. This puts you back in the start of the stage, which is OK for most stages.

However, there are longer stages which make this infuriating. The final few stages are simply devilish to go through, especially with enemies that can easily kill you with one hit. At that point, a difficult but fair game becomes decidedly unfair. which is obvious when you learn that Novotrade International intentionally upped the difficulty of the game to decrease Trade-ins for the game.

That is not to say the difficulty is insurmountable, there is even a higher difficulty setting for the experts, but that it takes too much time to get through with no pay-off. I say no pay-off because the times I went through, it felt more like luck than skill.

Varied Levels: +4
Too Difficult in the end: -3

"When will we swim n peace again?"

When Donkey Kong Country was released on the SNES with wide praise to its graphical innovations, and Sega might have been able to fight back in that battle if Ecco was a typical game, since it employed many of the same innovations.

With sprites rendered in 3D, it allowed for a smooth swimming animation that contrasted beautifully with the colorful and varied backgrounds. Both under and above water, the level backgrounds were beautiful, with colorful coral reefs and larger-than-life moons.

In some levels though, the underwater backgrounds were nearly non-existent. That was perhaps an attempt to showcase the emptiness of deep sea. However, a whale in the distance would have made a more effective use of perspective.

That is a minor complaint regarding the graphics of the game, but I cannot have any negative comments regarding its soundtrack.

Seriously, this might be the best Genesis soundtrack.

Reportedly inspired by Pink Floyd music, the tunes in Ecco are atmospheric and convey both the oceanic and sci-fi nature of Ecco's quest. From the opening track, you will realize that Ecco is not about a happy-go-lucky dolphin, but about a much grander quest.

Energetic tunes like my favorite, The Tubes of Medusa, contrasts well with sombre and mysterious tracks like Moray Abyss.

Its a constantly good soundtrack that removes the pain of having to repeat a 15 minute level from the beginning.

Good Graphics: +4
Great Soundtrack: +5

In Conclusion:

Like dolphins, Ecco: The Tides of Time is a game that is not afraid from swimming against the current. As a result, it managed somehow to become both an iconic and forgotten game at the same time.

While it is easy to get lost, and the difficulty might not provide pay-off to everyone playing the game, it is simply worth it to play a unique game which was not imitated in any way since. It also has some pretty sick tunes.

Final: 42/50

"Tips"
1- Eat fish to restore your health.
2- Repeatedly use the Sonar skill to get a grasp of your surroundings.
3- Double tap the tackle button to permanently kill your opponents.
4- You can safely dodge enemies without having to deal with them, most of the time.
5- The Cthulhu like enemies can kill you very easily, either run away from them or immediately try and kill.
6- There is an item that upgrades your Sonar attack in almost every big level, it is worth it to find it, but don't go out of your way.

"Next Game"

At first, I was going to play the first Ecco game before The tides of Time. However, I found that game to be an unpolished mess (Enemies will respawn at your face when you use Sonar for instance), so I just went ahead with this one. Maybe its only the soundtrack, but I ended up liking it despite wanting it to finish fast.

Next game on the list is the final Shinobi game on the list, Shinobi III at #16. Since I liked the previous two Shinobi games on the list I expect to like this one.

Stay Tuned
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Post by Bellabong Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:01 am



rofl it begins
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Post by Firenze Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:18 am

Lord Spencer wrote:#19

Game: Ecco: The Tides of Time.
Year: 1994.
Genre: Action Adventure.
Publisher: Sega.
Developer: Novotrade International.

General Games Discussion - Page 19 Gen_ecco_the_tides_of_time_p_mv67mn

First things first, I am changing my rating system to better rate different genres according to their own rules. It will still be from 50 quality points, but every title will start from 25 and earn/lose points according to criteria important to the titles and genres themselves.

The two Ecco games are probably one of the most unique games on the Genesis. Water levels in other games are usually described as the weakest parts, but here is a game about Dolphins composed entirely of water levels. It's also a game about a dolphin that looks like a dolphin, not a mascot character.

It is a testament to the skills of its development team that Ecco not only manages to be unique game, but also actually fun and worth playing.

"Now we hear songs of fear from the north"

When games starring Ninjas, Knights, and soldiers rarely got a story in the 16bit era, it is very surprising that Ecco: The Tides of Time attempts to craft an actual narrative around the game. As a sequel to the first Ecco game, The Tides of Time begins after Ecco defeated the Vortex aliens that threatened his world before.

Yet, due to some time machine mumbo jumbo, the Vortex are back with a vengeance, and Ecco will need to travel through the past and the future to face their threat.

In the course of the game, you will travel to a utopian Dolphin time, where flying Dolphins rule both sea and air, as well as into dark oceans where the Cthulhu-like aliens suck you into alternate dimensions.

One nice detail that is consistent throughout the game is its attempt to use known qualities of dolphins in its telling. For instance, all communication between Ecco and his allies is through song, which is how dolphins communicate in reality.

There is a Story: +2
Varied Locations: +2

"Return to your time and stop the Vortex before they take root upon the Earth"

In traveling through the varied locations, the entire game will depend on how you adjust to swimming your way through them. Since all levels are in water in some form, Ecco can swim in all 8 directions in 2D space.

Except, swimming is programed with inertia and position in mind. This means that abruptly changing directions will reduce your speed, but moving within a smooth curve can allow you to change directions without losing momentum.

It has a natural feeling to it, and so I got used to it fast. It might still cause you some frustration when you need to build up speed just before a sharp turn in order to jump over some obstacle in the water, but you will probably get used to it.

Other than swimming around, Ecco will have to deal with some enemies, as well as consistently look for air sources. Being Mammals, dolphins actually breathe air, and so trying to fill the air meter in-game is a constant source of positive tension.

Enemies in the other hand are more nuisance than fun to deal with. Due to the way Ecco moves, it is sometimes incredibly difficult to tackle a shark two times to defeat it. It is even worse if your double-tap didn't register, because that shark will then bounce right back.

This leads to a difficult game becoming more difficult, especially in regards to the final boss which can  almost be unbeatable if you don't figure out the only safe spot where you attack it from.

Fun Swimming Controls: +3
Managing Air Supply: +2
Weak Combat: -2

"I am from the distant future, or one possible future"

While The Tides of Time basically introduces all of its gameplay tricks in the first few levels, it manages to use them in a variety of ways in 30 levels without introducing much new.

Most levels are labyrinth of sorts, with Ecco looking for key stone to progress, or helping some sea creature who will return the favor. In the larger levels of this kind, it is sometimes difficult to get a grasp of your surroundings, or to know what you need to do to progress. Ecco can hold the sonar button to get a map of his surroundings, but the map is not detailed enough in some case.

Ecco is best in stages where it deviates from the maze structure. In one stage, you are swimming through a skyline while some giant squid thing chases you around. In another, you are being carried from one sky pool to another by one of those utopian dolphin creatures.

It is surprising how much mileage Novotrade International got from such a basic premise.

One reason the entire design works is because of the challenge in the game. Its not an easy game, and there is always the possibility of dying mid-course. This puts you back in the start of the stage, which is OK for most stages.

However, there are longer stages which make this infuriating. The final few stages are simply devilish to go through, especially with enemies that can easily kill you with one hit. At that point, a difficult but fair game becomes decidedly unfair. which is obvious when you learn that Novotrade International intentionally upped the difficulty of the game to decrease Trade-ins for the game.

That is not to say the difficulty is insurmountable, there is even a higher difficulty setting for the experts, but that it takes too much time to get through with no pay-off. I say no pay-off because the times I went through, it felt more like luck than skill.

Varied Levels: +4
Too Difficult in the end: -3

"When will we swim n peace again?"

When Donkey Kong Country was released on the SNES with wide praise to its graphical innovations, and Sega might have been able to fight back in that battle if Ecco was a typical game, since it employed many of the same innovations.

With sprites rendered in 3D, it allowed for a smooth swimming animation that contrasted beautifully with the colorful and varied backgrounds. Both under and above water, the level backgrounds were beautiful, with colorful coral reefs and larger-than-life moons.

In some levels though, the underwater backgrounds were nearly non-existent. That was perhaps an attempt to showcase the emptiness of deep sea. However, a whale in the distance would have made a more effective use of perspective.

That is a minor complaint regarding the graphics of the game, but I cannot have any negative comments regarding its soundtrack.

Seriously, this might be the best Genesis soundtrack.

Reportedly inspired by Pink Floyd music, the tunes in Ecco are atmospheric and convey both the oceanic and sci-fi nature of Ecco's quest. From the opening track, you will realize that Ecco is not about a happy-go-lucky dolphin, but about a much grander quest.

Energetic tunes like my favorite, The Tubes of Medusa, contrasts well with sombre and mysterious tracks like Moray Abyss.

Its a constantly good soundtrack that removes the pain of having to repeat a 15 minute level from the beginning.

Good Graphics: +4
Great Soundtrack: +5

In Conclusion:

Like dolphins, Ecco: The Tides of Time is a game that is not afraid from swimming against the current. As a result, it managed somehow to become both an iconic and forgotten game at the same time.

While it is easy to get lost, and the difficulty might not provide pay-off to everyone playing the game, it is simply worth it to play a unique game which was not imitated in any way since. It also has some pretty sick tunes.

Final: 42/50

"Tips"
1- Eat fish to restore your health.
2- Repeatedly use the Sonar skill to get a grasp of your surroundings.
3- Double tap the tackle button to permanently kill your opponents.
4- You can safely dodge enemies without having to deal with them, most of the time.
5- The Cthulhu like enemies can kill you very easily, either run away from them or immediately try and kill.
6- There is an item that upgrades your Sonar attack in almost every big level, it is worth it to find it, but don't go out of your way.

"Next Game"

At first, I was going to play the first Ecco game before The tides of Time. However, I found that game to be an unpolished mess (Enemies will respawn at your face when you use Sonar for instance), so I just went ahead with this one. Maybe its only the soundtrack, but I ended up liking it despite wanting it to finish fast.

Next game on the list is the final Shinobi game on the list, Shinobi III at #16. Since I liked the previous two Shinobi games on the list I expect to like this one.

Stay Tuned


I loved this game when I was a kid, was one of the first games I ever played, not sure I was old enough to actually finish it though. Nice write-up.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:47 pm

LeVersacci wrote:
Tomwin Lannister wrote:Last game with Torb or wtf you spell it I got 3 golds and a silver Laughing

Gun is ace.
If you love Torb then you should have seen him pre nerf & before the 1 hero lock Laughing

Here's an example




6 torbs lmaooooooooo
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Post by rincon Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Nioh's bosses are brutal
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Post by Firenze Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:36 pm

super cheap pos's more like

I summoned for the first, second and fourth boss lol

defeated 3 and 5 solo and most people think 5 is the hardest

mostly they're just endurance fights which is annoying, take like 10min
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Post by rincon Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:42 pm

I'm fighting the big demon inside the ship (I think that's the second, not sure). Beat me twice while I saw its moves, the the third time got him below half HP and he switched it up by throwing those giants balls at me and killed me. Beat me twice more after that and I turned the game off Evil or Very Mad
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Post by Firenze Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:46 pm

yeah that's the boss I consider the actual first one, I summoned for it but then I beat a harder version solo later in a twilight variant of that mission, has pretty telegraphed attacks but you can only hit him like 2 times every opening so it takes 5+ mins

it's a good game though, once you start getting better loot you'll enjoy it more
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Post by rincon Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:52 pm

I didn't say I don't enjoy it hmm

I'm a beast, 1v1 I dare you! (just kidding, I don't even know if there is pvp)

Its not too hard though, some annoying stuff but its easier than Demon's Souls or Dark Souls.

With the Kusarigama I've been sweeping most enemies. The regular guys don't do much if I keep them at a distance with high stance. Then the faster Samurai are cool to fight. I love the bow as well, I use it a ton to clear out the base before the boss.

Only the dead guys you summon (sometimes) and the big revenants are a challenge.
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Post by Firenze Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:57 pm

only really the bosses are hard after the first couple lvls IMO and some of the OP Yokai so far the bosses are hit and miss for me too, hated at least half of them but a couple were great

I'm using a spear though and I hear it's the easiest weapon to use (though I have seen that magic builds + Kusarigama can break the game and be OP AF with the right build)

PVP is coming for free in the near future in an update apparently

I'm only really doing the main missions and skipping all the sub missions, which may be the wrong thing to do but all of the sub missions are basically recycled from what I've seen
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Post by rincon Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:16 pm

When does magic and ninjutsu become available?
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Post by Firenze Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:22 pm

I think after the mission you're on things open up more
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Post by rincon Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:19 pm

It really picks up after beating that boss. I did the side mission in that same base after beating boss just to release some frustration after dying a bunch to the boss Laughing

Felt good to just wreck the base without dying. I'm looking into the ninjutsu now to see whats good.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:05 pm

Sniper Elite 4 getting decent reviews.

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Post by Firenze Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:19 pm

ain't nobody etc

nioh taking me a while, only been doing 1 main mission a day and those are like 60-90 mins long, might take me a month at this rate
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Post by RealGunner Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:26 pm

Can't play TLG more than 2 mins without spending 20 mins staring at Trico and petting him lmao

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Post by Firenze Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:43 pm

did you see the Zelda trailer they released while you were on holiday RG? One of the best game trailers I've ever seen, almost made me buy a Nintendo for it ffs

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Post by rincon Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:04 pm

Firenze wrote:ain't nobody etc

nioh taking me a while, only been doing 1 main mission a day and those are like 60-90 mins long, might take me a month at this rate


Man the second main mission is exponentially harder than the first one imo. On the first I beat it fairly smoothly until the boss. The second one is kicking my ass.
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Post by Firenze Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:08 pm

yeah the game got kinda easier after those two missions IMO, I got my gear up etc

the second boss is generally thought to be VERY hard, one of the hardest in the game apparently

I summoned for it lol

only knock on the game and the reason I have to take a break after every main mission is that enemy variety and locations aren't very diverse, unlike Dark SOuls where I was really into finding secrets and the story and the bosses etc so i keep making progress into new areas, here I get burnout after spending an hour on a mission, still fighting the same enemies I did lvl 1

bosses haven't been as good in Nioh
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Post by rincon Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:33 pm

You were really into the story of dark souls? hmm

Nothing happens in that game. You get told what to do at the beginning and thats it.
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Post by Thimmy Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:39 pm

You should probably take a break from gaming if you get frequently burnt out, Firenze Razz

I've already sunk 100 hours into Yakuza, and I haven't completed the game. So much content...
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:40 pm

That's good advice tbh, you are probably just playing too much.

I'm taking a break atm( well i am playing Gwent but it's a card game so i dunno if i count that lol), want to be fresh when the ridiculousness of March starts then i'll probably take another break in the summer.
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Post by Firenze Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:47 pm

rincon wrote:You were really into the story of dark souls? hmm

Nothing happens in that game. You get told what to do at the beginning and thats it.

Dark Souls and Bloodborne have very interesting lore, it's just buried. Legit read a 90 page dissertation on Bloodborne.
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