Re: General UK politics

by Unique 18/2/2019, 23:49

RealGunner wrote:
Firenze wrote:as far as I'm concerned, she was a child that made a mistake and deserves a second chance. Force her into weekly meetings with a case worker or something, but I'm not going to pretend I'm outraged in a world where murderers and pedophiles get second chances. I'd feel differently if she weren't 15 when she left.

It's a moral dilemma.

She was 15 when she was groomed and radicalised. But even at 15 you should know better than to fly away to the most dangerous place in the world and fight with the people who want to bomb your own country and did. I suppose not everyone has the same circumstances nor the mental capacity to make the best judgement calls so maybe she was very easily manipulated and impressionable.

But actions have consequences. I saw her interview with Sky and she looks absolutely remorseless and still doesn't understand what she did was wrong. Instead of telling the world how sorry she was, instead she said she wants people to sympathise with her and that she still doesn't regret her actions. And this is coming after she lost 2 of her babies.

How is she expecting any public backing? But people here are still willing to do something for her. It surprised me how so many still think bringing her back is the right thing to do. People believe just as you do that it is worth trying to help her and try and de-radicalise her.

I myself don't think it will work. She looks like she has gone way past the point of redemption. Maybe the war in Syria has mentally affected her severely and she isn't thinking right. But i don't know. It's too much of a risk to bring her back. But the problem is that she is still a British citizen so UK is her home. Not sure how laws work in this case but legally we might have to take her back in. This doesn't mean she will walk free, but rather prosecuted and jailed for life.

I don't really care about her as much as i find this case interesting tbh. I wonder what will come of it in the end.

I personally think we should bring the baby back to the UK as he is innocent in all of this. But separating him from his mother is another tricky matter.

i was not expecting that post from you tbh. but thumbs up

by Unique 18/2/2019, 23:54

i also think her family should be investigated because no 15yo muslim girl is free to think and act to anything without her family knowing or having some input on her life. she went there with her dads blessing imo.

by Firenze 18/2/2019, 23:56

Yeah like I said haven't seen her interviews etc and I do agree that most 15 year olds should know better but like you say, I've met PLENTY in my life that don't. I couldn't ever picture myself doing stuff like that, but I had a stable upbringing, saw a lot of kids go off the rails that didn't.

I've got no issue with her going to prison etc, just think that she should be afforded a chance to reintegrate under a new identity or something when she's served her time if they see fit to charge and sentence her (she should face some sort of reprimand)

for what it's worth my general stance on these people that denounce a country and go join terrorist groups etc is that they should be barred from ever returning, I just think her being a child at the time should matter.

by iftikhar 19/2/2019, 10:31

Nishankly wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncHAwux70u8

good stuff

Is it OK if I find it totally hilarious :coffee:

by iftikhar 19/2/2019, 11:48

RealGunner wrote:But even at 15 you should know better than to fly away to the most dangerous place in the world and fight with the people who want to bomb your own country and did.

Should she have known better??? True, even at 15 one is expected to show certain amount of sensibility & realism but on issues of far lesser magnitude. Kids of this age even tend to struggle with issues like drug abuse, choice of boyfriend, studies or partying late. I suppose you have state and community institutes to supplement the family effort to coach the kids on these issues. If she is not expected to choose between Labor and Tories, how can she be expected to have the sense of not taking such disastrous choice? What was the context of her choice? Caught between Islam Phobia and Militant Islam, how many saner voices did she hear?

RealGunner wrote:But actions have consequences.

Totally agree. You have correctional facilities instead of prisons and gallows for underage offenders, rehabilitation centers for drug abusers and teenage pregnancy receives social/community support to fight the stigma. Her consequence shouldn’t be dictated by her actions alone but by the general context of her action.

RealGunner wrote:I myself don't think it will work. She looks like she has gone way past the point of redemption.

She is what, 15! Apparently the society/community hasn’t paid much attention to her all these time. Whether someone is beyond redemption can only be discussed only after he/she receives that effort for redemption. She is expected to live for another 55-60 years under normal circumstances, right? Now that seems hell lot of time left for redemption. You leave her in that, or any other, hell and she will create who knows how many more antagonists like her.

by Firenze 19/2/2019, 21:34

She's been stripped of her citizenship, I think because the government say she wouldn't become Stateless as a result. She can get a Bangladeshi passport.

by RealGunner 19/2/2019, 21:46

Her family argues she has never had a Bangladeshi passport so she doesn't in fact have dual nationality.

She can apply for one through her parents but at the moment she is stateless...which is illegal according to international law.

Not sure if Javid made this decision on impulse or not but it may backfire.

by Unique 19/2/2019, 23:36

so Let me get this right. Her parents came to Britain and she was born so that makes her 100% British. She then goes to Syria shacks up with some Dutchman has a kid that people are saying is British. How the fuck does that work. If she is British because she was born here then the kid has to be Syrian yes?

by BarrileteCosmico 19/2/2019, 23:53

Being born in the UK doesn't automatically make you British. There are many requirements beyond that. And every country's laws are different, Syrian laws do not necessarily follow the same pattern than UK laws.

by rincon 20/2/2019, 00:56

Unique if you have a kid in Syria is your kid british or syrian?

by Unique 20/2/2019, 01:41

If me and my wife were to have a kid born in the USA for argument sake I would say that kid is English.

by rincon 20/2/2019, 09:19

There you go, so her kid is English.

by Unique 20/2/2019, 12:56

rincon wrote:There you go, so her kid is English.

but that would mean that she is not then.

by rincon 20/2/2019, 13:01

Unique wrote:
rincon wrote:There you go, so her kid is English.
but that would mean that she is not then.

No. She is(was) a citizen of the UK. It's irrelevant how she became a citizen. There are not 1st class or 2nd class citizens. Once she became citizen, her (future) kid is one as well, by UK law, and by your own admission.

by Unique 20/2/2019, 13:09

rincon wrote:
Unique wrote:
rincon wrote:There you go, so her kid is English.
but that would mean that she is not then.

No. She is(was) a citizen of the UK. It's irrelevant how she became a citizen. There are not 1st class or 2nd class citizens. Once she became citizen, her (future) kid is one as well, by UK law, and by your own admission.

she didnt become a citizen. in the eyes of the british laws she was born here so that makes her british so imo the british law should see the baby as syrian. dont matter about the kid anyway i have no objections about bringing the baby to the UK to get adopted by loving parants who wont brain wash the poor kid with that backward islam shit that ruined its mothers life.

by rincon 20/2/2019, 13:26

Unique wrote:
rincon wrote:
Unique wrote: but that would mean that she is not then.

No. She is(was) a citizen of the UK. It's irrelevant how she became a citizen. There are not 1st class or 2nd class citizens. Once she became citizen, her (future) kid is one as well, by UK law, and by your own admission.
she didnt become a citizen. in the eyes of the british laws she was born here so that makes her british so imo the british law should see the baby as syrian.

and yet you said that if you had a kid in the US, it would be english. So what's the difference?

In the end that baby is definitely the innocent one, victim of his mom's madness.

by BarrileteCosmico 20/2/2019, 14:33

3 Tories join "independent group", ending the Tory majority and giving the IG as many votes as the lib dems. 6 more are rumored to follow.

by iftikhar 20/2/2019, 17:17

BarrileteCosmico wrote:3 Tories join "independent group", ending the Tory majority and giving the IG as many votes as the lib dems. 6 more are rumored to follow.

They had so few???

I wonder what's going to happen to this IG in the end. Surely not another SDP?

by RealGunner 20/2/2019, 18:50

Wow. A centrist political movement. All the Blairites are jumping for joy.

This is funny though

General UK politics - Page 9 Dz2S_p1WwAACVwF

by RealGunner 20/2/2019, 22:09

Shamima Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there is "no question" of her being allowed into the country, Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said.

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And they are absolutely right. She is not Bangladesh's problem. She is UK's problem. It was always an idiotic and a pathetic move to try and shove this matter to another country that Shamima has nothing to do with.

Most law/immigration experts have come out to say that she should indeed by handled by the UK. Revoking her citizenship is setting a dangerous precedent. Where does this end? You can't revoke someone's citizenship who was born and raised in your own country. She was radicalised and groomed in the UK, not in Bangladesh or Syria.

I think the home office will overturn that decision and bring her back to put her on trial. Seems like the most obvious move now.

by Unique 20/2/2019, 22:19

RealGunner wrote:Shamima Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there is "no question" of her being allowed into the country, Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said.

-----------

And they are absolutely right. She is not Bangladesh's problem. She is UK's problem. It was always an idiotic and a pathetic move to try and shove this matter to another country that Shamima has nothing to do with.

Most law/immigration experts have come out to say that she should indeed by handled by the UK. Revoking her citizenship is setting a dangerous precedent. Where does this end? You can't revoke someone's citizenship who was born and raised in your own country. She was radicalised and groomed in the UK, not in Bangladesh or Syria.

I think the home office will overturn that decision and bring her back to put her on trial. Seems like the most obvious move now.

if she goes on trial she will walk. this girl will be sitting pretty in a nice little house claiming benifits just in time for the summer.

by Unique 21/2/2019, 05:41

tommy gives his opinion. looks like i was right about the dad.

by Unique 16/4/2019, 03:07

IS bride Shamima Begum is appealing for legal aid to fight for her British citizenship - but Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt says he would be "very uncomfortable" if she got the support.

Her family, who had been pursuing Shamima Begum's legal action on her behalf, had previously been granted legal aid.
https://news.sky.com/story/is-bride-shamima-begum-appealing-for-legal-aid-to-fight-for-uk-citizenship-11694577

what a shit show our government and laws are in this country now. she turns her back on this country to go and fight with the enemy and loses her citizenship then the government will pay the millions of pounds in legal costs for her to fight to come back to britain. should have just taken her back and spent the money on helping homeless veterans. then we have Jeremy Corbyn. he says. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn supported Shamima Begum's bid for legal aid, adding: "Creating stateless people in the world isn't going to solve any problems. now this is a guy whos party has been outed as anti semitic and has been making friends with the finsbury park mosque where most of the hate preachers came from. in years gone by this cnut would be hung drawn and quartered for treason. there are no words to describe how much i hate this man.

by Unique 30/4/2019, 02:03

by Unique 30/4/2019, 03:26

this women has read my mind. she has hit the nail on the head.

by iftikhar 6/5/2019, 07:55

So what's odd of Liberals and Greens converting their gains in Council Elections into something more substantial?

Also, where does Labor/Corbyn go from here??

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