Next season's midfield

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Post by sportsczy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:34 am

I disagree. It's pure market economics. Supply and demand combined with competitive bidding. Sellers don't dictate the price. They can only ask a price and then the market takes over. They can ask less, but then they'd be stupid. And in any case, if they allowed all the bidding to happen even if they set a low price... It would reach the market eventually. Same concept with setting a price that is too high... If market was lower, the bids would reflect it.

Some clubs don't let the market process play out and end up selling low. Juve isn't one of those clubs. They'll let the elite teams fight it out.

Only trump cards are if the player doesn't want to go to the highest bidder OR if the asset owner wants to gamble for the market to move in the future (as long as player consents).

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Post by sportsczy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:00 am

Emanuel Petit expressed exactly what I'm talking about in regards to Pogba:

"We didn't take Paul Pogba to improve the defensive statistics," Petit told Le Parisien. "Like [Antoine] Griezmann, he has the talent necessary to help Les Bleus pass a milestone.

"At Juve, he strings together great performances but he doesn't play in the same set-up. When a player is used to having liberties and you impose strict orders and one area on him, that frustrates him and it's counterproductive.

"I'm expecting more in attack. We'll need his skills to win matches."

Petit contrasted France's midfield performance with that of Croatia, who gave Barcelona's Ivan Rakitic and Real Madrid's Luka Modric the freedom to pull the strings in their 1-0 win over Turkey.

"His preferred position is not on the right side," Petit said of Pogba. "What bothers me more than anything is that the pattern remains fixed in midfield.

"With Croatia, Rakitic and Modric spend their time at the front, at the back, to the left, to the right. There are instructions when the ball is lost but in using it there's freedom while still respecting tactical rigour."

http://www.espnfc.com/france/story/2892312/paul-pogba-should-be-given-more-freedom-by-france-emmanuel-petit

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Post by Doc on Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:05 am

Paul ain't above and beyond Kroos. Come on, that is mad people talk and Sports I feel you drank one or two or 5 glasses of wine before you made that comment. Or still in a buoyant mood from Friday gone. Both men excel at different things that make them really good footballers in their own right.

Still, as much as Hala and DoC (and Valk and Adit) would detest, I still have no issues with Paul coming. I don't say no to talented footballers in this team and the man has lots of it. I would welcome his bad hairstyle self with open arms. That being said, Kroos showed legit professionalism when he had to play a holding midfield role (I have or no one has shown this board any proof of him complaining of that role). If push come to shove and Pobga is told to do that same thing, are we gonna have that same professionalism?

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Post by sportsczy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:48 am

Tell me one team that would take Kroos over Pogba if they had the choice... that should tell you all you need to know.

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Post by shadexticos on Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:14 am

@futbol bill
I am surprised, we actually all agreed having kroos and modric was pointless. But it think its due to the improvement in Kroos' performance towards the end of the season.
We all agreed that modric and kroos are actually the same type of player. They are players that dictate the game and not exactly creators. Even when you push them higher up, they still somehow revert to their usual ways.

I think a team should have either a kroos or modric, not both of them, and its obvious if we are to choose one, we would choose the god over the human - Modric over kroos.

Some people might refer to modric's age, but you have to understand that some players peak late. His better years are ahead of him and not behind, so to me, having a 30yr old modric is as good as having a 25 year old player.

Also, comparing a 23yr old Pogba to 23yr old modric is not a good yardstick for measuring their maximum potentials.
Some players peak late, some peak early. For all we know, Pogba might never go beyond his current level, and even if he does, he might never reach the level of a 30 year old modric in relation to his position.

Bottomline is, while kroos might be a better player, what we need is a midfielder that can take matters into his own hands and produce a moment/moments of brilliance and that player is Pogba.

He wil definitely improve his consistency, skillset, reduce his error and amount of time he spends on d ball because Madrid is diff from Juventus. His ceiling is limited in Serie A, limitless in Madrid.

Its a risky decision, but a worthy one

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Post by Doc on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:51 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Tell me one team that would take Kroos over Pogba if they had the choice... that should tell you all you need to know.

When do we care what other teams would or would not choose? For that matter, when did you start caring about such things? If Paul replaces Kroos, I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep since we would be replacing one very talented midfielder with another. As long as Zidane can make it work (which I don't see why not), then I could care less.

The same would be said if nothing happens. I am just wondering in the case Paul does show up if he would show the same professional approach as Kroos did if (or when) he is played in a position not suited to his skill set.

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Post by sportsczy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:13 pm

He never complained at Juve or NT...  When Vidal was injured, he played on the right and Marchisio played on the left.  When both Marchisio and Pirlo were injured early in his Juve career, he played the deep role of Pirlo although more as a DM then a playmaker obviously.  At NT, he's played in the double pivot in the 4231 on the right and as the RCM in a 433 now.  If he was going to complain...  he'd ask to play on the left but he never has said a word.

That's one of the issues really.  Everyone expects him to be WC at every single midfield position.  That's just completely unrealistic.  It's like asking a rightback to be just as great playing leftback.  That's what's going on at NT.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:55 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Tell me one team person that would take Kroos over Pogba if they had the choice...  that should tell you all you need to know.
I would. Toni Kroos is our excellence of execution. Kroos delivered the setpiece assist for ramos to score the cl final.

I long contemplated Pogba in our setup but if it's at the cost of Toni Kroos then I feel it is not worth it.

Pogba though physically athletic is not as good as Kroos in midfield control. When Kroos is bold, Kroos is far superior in creativity and passing. I value Kroos a very great deal. Pogba offers only a physical aspect with limited attacking capability in comparison to Toni Kroos who may lack physical impact but makes up for it in everything else. We have Casemiro who has proven himself. A physical component is no longer needed as it is fulfilled. Kroos and Modric are more than enough to control any midfield. and when Casemiro gets better with technique, pogba becomes a very expensive luxury. one which isnt worth the money.

Though if its in regard to replacing Modric longterm, I can see pogba on this team. replacing Kroos though? I can't see it. We would have to be very stupid to get rid of a proven champion like Kroos.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:53 am

It's not about who's the better player. It is about who is the better fit.

Kroos is an excellent player, we just have a very similar player in Modric. If it is between Modric and Kroos, I pick Modric any day.
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Post by Turok_TTZ on Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:42 am

Then this is where we have to disagree. Pogba costs too much money and will ask for a salary he does not deserve. I like modric but he isnt getting any younger. Though I reckon he can still be great a few more years yet. Pogba cannot displace any of the current midfield trio. Besides, like I said, there are some things kroos can do that pogba cannot match.

Not saying pogba is limited but he is an unfinished product in comparison to modric or kroos. A better fit? How so? Our midfield is as is. The KISS method would be best followed.
No need to fix what isnt broken.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:47 pm

I agree with Turok's last two posts, Pogba is simply not needed at Madrid and it would be a monumental mistake to replace Kroos with an inferior player in Pogba.

He's not worth 120m. In fact, he's not even worth 40m. Just keep that guy away from my club.

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Post by futbol_bill on Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:16 pm

When are you guys going to realize it is not "your" club! It is Flo's (and socios) club. You can give your opinions, but at end of day, it's Flo's decision and you can either jump on bandwagon or jump ship!
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Post by Doc on Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:28 pm

Yeah, that's how organisations grow by just accepting one person's point of view as the be all and end all.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:33 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:When are you guys going to realize it is not "your" club! It is Flo's (and socios) club. You can give your opinions, but at end of day, it's Flo's decision and you can either jump on bandwagon or jump ship!

When I say that I don't want bad things to happen to my country, does it mean that I own Tunisia?

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Post by vanDEEZ on Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:58 pm

@Turok_TTZ wrote:Then this is where we have to disagree. Pogba costs too much money and will ask for a salary he does not deserve. I like modric but he isnt getting any younger. Though I reckon he can still be great a few more years yet. Pogba cannot displace any of the current midfield trio. Besides, like I said, there are some things kroos can do that pogba cannot match.

Not saying pogba is limited but he is an unfinished product in comparison to modric or kroos. A better fit? How so? Our midfield is as is. The KISS method would be best followed.
No need to fix what isnt broken.


The money is not coming out of your wallet so I am not sure how that matters.

What can Kroos do that Pogba cannot match? Before you can even say anything I can promise you Modric can supply everything you were about to list.

Pogba can supply things BOTH Kroos and Modric cannot, and it is pretty plain to see. They are two different builds of players.

As for fixing something that isn't broken- I would disagree. I think our season was mostly unconvincing and a large part of that was due to a lack of diversity in the midfield.

We won the Champions League, yes, but how many stumbles did we have against very beatable teams (Roma, Wolfsburg, even City was closer than it probably should). It was lucky that we were able to progress how we did.

If I were coach, I would look at my midfield and say- this is an area where we can improve. An area where another piece of the puzzle can mean the difference between wining and losing.

I think Zidane understands the need for tactical flexibility, at this moment we have little due to our very similar midfield makeup.
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Post by futbol_bill on Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:01 pm

@Doc wrote:Yeah, that's how organisations grow by just accepting one person's point of view as the be all and end all.


I'm not saying Flo's is the only point of view. He obviously has people he consults with (noone on this board, but that's another story), but he gets the final say.

We seem to have two different opinions on this midfield matter, those that think current midfield is just fine, perhaps with some different backup options and those that say we have a balance problem that having both Modric and Kroos on field at same time, doesn't address, but that Pogba does. I think Deez pretty well summed it up.

That's the opinions on this board in a nutshell! Meanwhile Flo and Zidane are already into negotiations with both Juve and Pogba's agent. So as I said above, we don't own team, you can either jump on bandwagon or jump ship.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:22 pm

Those aren't the only options...  you can disagree with the club while still supporting it.  

At the end of the day, we're going to be no worse as a result of getting Pogba...  likely better.  It's not like replacing Di Maria with James, which was a massive gamble.  Pogba is much more of a proven player and Kroos was nowhere near all world like ADM was in his last season at RM.

This is more like replacing Ozil with Bale.

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Post by Valkyrja on Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:30 pm

Di Maria is so overrated is not even funny anymore

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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:50 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Tell me one team that would take Kroos over Pogba if they had the choice... that should tell you all you need to know.


Does France count? They would rather play Payet- matiudi-kante than accommodate Pogba .

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:45 pm

but Adit im sure Deschamps hasnt played organized football in his life, that's why he is benching Pogba

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Post by Adit on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:51 pm

Takes massive balls to bench big players regardless let alone in huge tournament at home.

The decision to take off Pogba to give payet central role, how many managers have the balls to do that when your team need a goal? Deschamps looks like the opposite of Laurent Blanc.

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Post by guest7 on Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:05 pm

Majority of our subs this season has been from midfield... Should tell you alot. It was never working
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Post by Eneide on Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:06 pm

There are rumours that Deschamps is fed up with Pogba attitude...he arrives late at breakfast and wearing non-uniform clothes.

He also genuinely believes that Pogba should play better.
It seems he, like many in here, also agrees that Pogba had a poor game against Romania.

The question is...if these rumours are true, does Madrid want to buy a player with attitude? We already have drama queens around.

Pogba is still young...the press overrating him was a disservice. Now he clearly thinks too much of himself.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:12 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:When are you guys going to realize it is not "your" club! It is Flo's (and socios) club. You can give your opinions, but at end of day, it's Flo's decision and you can either jump on bandwagon or jump ship!

You're not seeing the bigger picture bill.
With pogba's reported wages, he will be very hard to drop from the first team should he decide to deliver shit performances. Even harder with him being french, will get french bias by Zidane being coach. And worse should we find out he isnt fit for our tactics. We buy him for 120m for example. He ends up a bad apple and we have to sell him. How much of a loss are we to expect? Surely we canr sell nothing near 80m let alone 100m.

Pogba is a very big risk despite the talent.

Meanwhile we have the excellence that is Toni Kroos who had positive world cup and now Euro performances unlike pogba who is doing not so good in this year's EURO 2016. Kroos has been kroosing with Germany right now. Pogba has been meh all things considered so far. If florentino has keen observation, should take into consideration the performances of the EURO 2016 tournament. Not looking good for pogba right now.

Our midfield is fine as is. Hell it got us a cl title. That title alone is the only justification needed in favour of our current midfield. Our attackers plus selling off james should be the agenda of club but we will see soon enough whether flo and zidane got the right perspective.
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Post by futbol_bill on Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:34 pm

Bigger picture!!!!

You aren't even seen the past! With all the lack of balance issues we had! And you don't think we need a change??? Read Deez's post, pretty well sums it up.

You can keep your head stuck in the sand if you want with your opinion.

Meanwhile, what you say shouldn't happen, is all ready in the works. As I have said before, you can jump on the bandwagon or jump ship or as Sports said stay a disgrunted fan.

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Post by chad4401 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:56 am

So much rubbish in this thread,  pogba is overrated af he is no way better than kroos, the kroos hate on this forum is a prime example of rm fans who don't know anything about footy and only want who is hot at the moment, while rambling about how midfielder  should play yet can watch isco play like crap most games and praise him for the sake of it, I know for a fact if pogba comes is he gonna get the isco treatment,  does nothing to change the shape of the game but all the fans gonna worry about is highlight vid on youtube.

I remember before kroos joined almost all the posters on here wanted him, now everybody wants kante over him cause one good season lmao typical, I have no problem with the cl winning midfield that all the experts wrote off half way through the season.

Lol at bill talking about who runs the club sit down, you don't know more than anybody of this forum, all you is push your spanish adenga and leech off posts.


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