Thomas Müller - Top 3 striker in the world

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Post by Based Bonera on Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:27 pm

Hes just so...damn....clutch. He just has that IT factor that many players lack these days. I find him to be pretty underrated around football communities.

Whats your guys opinion on him? Is he a top 3 striker in the world? Or is he just an average player who turns it up in crucial moments?

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Post by VivaStPauli on Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:12 am

Probably not making the top 10 in terms of skill or talent, but is IMHO the worlds most definite big game player. Got the brains and mentality of the #1 of the world.

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Post by rwo power on Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:30 am

I totally agree with Viva in this.

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Post by Harmonica on Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:14 pm

Great squad player, though he's lucky to play such giants in club and national team.

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Post by rincon on Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:38 pm

Absolute top player. His positioning and reading are top notch. Haven't seen someone so clutch since Inzaghi, plus Muller can actually play football besides just poaching.

Wouldn't say top 3 striker in the world though. He doesn't really play the out and out striker so its hard to pin down.

For 3 strikers I'd say Messi, Lewandoski and Higuain right now.
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Post by Doc on Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:07 pm

Don't rate him that highly to put him in any top ten in any position he plays but when it comes to the big time, he certainly shows up. I cannot fault him for that.

And even in that category, I still would put him a distant second to Andres Iniesta.

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Post by Onyx on Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:44 pm

Muller refers to himself as a raumdeuter, someone who basically thrives on space. In the current Bayern system he mainly hovers around Lewa, so if you wanted to class him with a more familiar term, he'd be an SS, but not in the traditional sense.

He's definitely not a striker though imo. Now if you want to count all types of forwards, I'd take Suarez, Benzema, Aguero, Messi, Neymar, Ibra, Robben, Lewa, Reus and Ronaldo over him.
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Post by Harmonica on Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:58 pm

Goals Against Period Top 4

Note: Period top 4, finished positions in Argentinian, Brazilian, Dutch, French, German, English, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish national leagues)
Note: Pele's national competitions, Taca Brazil 59-66, Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa 67-70, Brasileiro Serie A 71-74
Note: Includes cup and reagional league goals against period national league top 4
Note: Official games

103 Messi (04-16, 144 games, 0,72 gpg)
96 C.Ronaldo (02-16, 179 games, 0,54 gpg)
62 Pele (59-74, 103 games, 0,60 gpg)
59 G.Müller (65-79, 114 games, 0,52 gpg)
31 T.Müller (08-16, 81 games, 0,38 gpg)

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Post by futbol on Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:02 pm

He has a huge advantage. I can't think of any other player who plays in a system with a world class striker infront of him occupying centerbacks and 2 word class wingers on each of his side stretching the play. He basically has 3 world class players infront of him doing most of the playmaking, dribbling, passing, crossing etc. while he can pounce as a shadow striker. You play him on the wing or as the main striker and he won't be anywhere near as effective. I really can't think of any other player who plays in such a dream system. Ronaldo is probably the closest with Benzema and Bale doing the donkey work in the final third but even then that's only 2, not 3 like Müller who has Ribery, Robben (+ Costa, Coman) and Lewandowski.

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Post by Doc on Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:06 pm

Neymar springs to mind as well (:

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Post by futbol on Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:18 pm

Absolutely. (: But even with Neymar that's a) only 2 players carrying him in the final third (granted, Messi and Suarez >>> Lewandowski + Robben + Ribery, but let's not get into technicalities) and b) to be fair to Neymar, he does pick up the ball from deep and drive forward with it and is involved in creating chances. Müller doesn't do much of that.

Bayern do have a very unique system. Not a lot of teams have the personnel to play with 2 wingers and 2 strikers.

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Post by footyfan01 on Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:08 am

Suarez is No.1 - Aguero is he gets his stride (not current version) is IMO No.2

After that you have Zlatan, Lewa, Muller, etc!

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Post by Clutch on Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:15 am

Never considerd him a striker but his awareness for goal is off the charts


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Post by Onyx on Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:42 pm

@futbol wrote:He has a huge advantage. I can't think of any other player who plays in a system with a world class striker infront of him occupying centerbacks and 2 word class wingers on each of his side stretching the play. He basically has 3 world class players infront of him doing most of the playmaking, dribbling, passing, crossing etc. while he can pounce as a shadow striker. You play him on the wing or as the main striker and he won't be anywhere near as effective. I really can't think of any other player who plays in such a dream system. Ronaldo is probably the closest with Benzema and Bale doing the donkey work in the final third but even then that's only 2, not 3 like Müller who has Ribery, Robben (+ Costa, Coman) and Lewandowski.


It can also be considered a disadvantage since he's having to play a less focal role. He's not the main striker, he's not a CAM and nor is he a winger. He just hovers around Lewa and finds space. Nothing goes through him and it's not like Lewa/Robben/Costa are strategically placed just so Muller can thrive. He's only playing where he is because Robben is at RW, Lewa is CF which then leaves his role free.

He's just a unique player, who offers something different compared to a lot of the flashy players out there. His unique ability is certainly World class and he'd comfortably score 15+ goals as a RW. He's not the greatest player or anything, but he fulfils his role every season.

Ronaldo on the other hand, well the attack plays for him, he barely tracks back and gets special privileges.
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Post by Valkyrja on Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:58 pm

@footyfan01 wrote:Suarez is No.1 - Aguero is he gets his stride (not current version) is IMO No.2

After that you have Zlatan, Lewa, Muller, etc!


Aguero is overrated as hell

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Post by futbol on Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:01 pm

@Onyx wrote:
@futbol wrote:He has a huge advantage. I can't think of any other player who plays in a system with a world class striker infront of him occupying centerbacks and 2 word class wingers on each of his side stretching the play. He basically has 3 world class players infront of him doing most of the playmaking, dribbling, passing, crossing etc. while he can pounce as a shadow striker. You play him on the wing or as the main striker and he won't be anywhere near as effective. I really can't think of any other player who plays in such a dream system. Ronaldo is probably the closest with Benzema and Bale doing the donkey work in the final third but even then that's only 2, not 3 like Müller who has Ribery, Robben (+ Costa, Coman) and Lewandowski.


It can also be considered a disadvantage since he's having to play a less focal role. He's not the main striker, he's not a CAM and nor is he a winger. He just hovers around Lewa and finds space. Nothing goes through him and it's not like Lewa/Robben/Costa are strategically placed just so Muller can thrive. He's only playing where he is because Robben is at RW, Lewa is CF which then leaves his role free.

He's just a unique player, who offers something different compared to a lot of the flashy players out there. His unique ability is certainly World class and he'd comfortably score 15+ goals as a RW. He's not the greatest player or anything, but he fulfils his role every season.

Ronaldo on the other hand, well the attack plays for him, he barely tracks back and gets special privileges.


He isn't playing a "less focal role". He is simply not a ball dominant player so the play naturally doesn't go through to him. Giving him the ball anywhere else but in shooting positions wouldn't result in much so obviously the play goes through others.

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Post by farfan on Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:10 pm

His face should exclude him from any respectable list.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:13 pm

He's another one of these players people like so much that they ignore every single negative thing he does and exaggerate every single good thing he does.
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Post by Lucifer on Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:25 pm

Bayern with Muller goes from ruthless to without Muller toothless every time. Also there is thumb rule " you don't sub Muller ". So don't think he gets anything he doesn't deserve on contrary people like to right him off due to his lack of fancy skills.
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Post by Onyx on Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:30 pm

@futbol wrote:
@Onyx wrote:
@futbol wrote:He has a huge advantage. I can't think of any other player who plays in a system with a world class striker infront of him occupying centerbacks and 2 word class wingers on each of his side stretching the play. He basically has 3 world class players infront of him doing most of the playmaking, dribbling, passing, crossing etc. while he can pounce as a shadow striker. You play him on the wing or as the main striker and he won't be anywhere near as effective. I really can't think of any other player who plays in such a dream system. Ronaldo is probably the closest with Benzema and Bale doing the donkey work in the final third but even then that's only 2, not 3 like Müller who has Ribery, Robben (+ Costa, Coman) and Lewandowski.


It can also be considered a disadvantage since he's having to play a less focal role. He's not the main striker, he's not a CAM and nor is he a winger. He just hovers around Lewa and finds space. Nothing goes through him and it's not like Lewa/Robben/Costa are strategically placed just so Muller can thrive. He's only playing where he is because Robben is at RW, Lewa is CF which then leaves his role free.

He's just a unique player, who offers something different compared to a lot of the flashy players out there. His unique ability is certainly World class and he'd comfortably score 15+ goals as a RW. He's not the greatest player or anything, but he fulfils his role every season.

Ronaldo on the other hand, well the attack plays for him, he barely tracks back and gets special privileges.


He isn't playing a "less focal role". He is simply not a ball dominant player so the play naturally doesn't go through to him. Giving him the ball anywhere else but in shooting positions wouldn't result in much so obviously the play goes through others.


Thing is though he doesn't need to be a ball dominant player to play elsewhere. Being good with the ball isn't a prerequisite to being a striker, for example. Plenty of great strikers are just finishers, a poacher basically. He could also do the Pedro/inside forward role, which he's done from time to time in the past. Playing CF or RW would certainly give him more responsibility compared to his current reserved role.
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Post by futbol on Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:33 pm

@Onyx wrote:
@futbol wrote:
@Onyx wrote:


It can also be considered a disadvantage since he's having to play a less focal role. He's not the main striker, he's not a CAM and nor is he a winger. He just hovers around Lewa and finds space. Nothing goes through him and it's not like Lewa/Robben/Costa are strategically placed just so Muller can thrive. He's only playing where he is because Robben is at RW, Lewa is CF which then leaves his role free.

He's just a unique player, who offers something different compared to a lot of the flashy players out there. His unique ability is certainly World class and he'd comfortably score 15+ goals as a RW. He's not the greatest player or anything, but he fulfils his role every season.

Ronaldo on the other hand, well the attack plays for him, he barely tracks back and gets special privileges.


He isn't playing a "less focal role". He is simply not a ball dominant player so the play naturally doesn't go through to him. Giving him the ball anywhere else but in shooting positions wouldn't result in much so obviously the play goes through others.


Thing is though he doesn't need to be a ball dominant player to play elsewhere. Being good with the ball isn't a prerequisite to being a striker, for example. Plenty of great strikers are just finishers, a poacher basically. He could also do the Pedro/inside forward role, which he's done from time to time in the past. Playing CF or RW would certainly give him more responsibility compared to his current reserved role.


Yes, Pedro is a great example actually. I've always maintained Müller is a rich man's Pedro.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:01 pm

@futbol wrote:He has a huge advantage. I can't think of any other player who plays in a system with a world class striker infront of him occupying centerbacks and 2 word class wingers on each of his side stretching the play. He basically has 3 world class players infront of him doing most of the playmaking, dribbling, passing, crossing etc. while he can pounce as a shadow striker.

Awwww come on that argument doesn't work. If anything, he has 3 world class people around him who don't like to share the ball and would rather finish themselves, than pass to Müller; so if anything he's at a disadvantage compared to players like Zlatan or Messi who get, like, all the service.

You play him on the wing or as the main striker and he won't be anywhere near as effective. I really can't think of any other player who plays in such a dream system. Ronaldo is probably the closest with Benzema and Bale doing the donkey work in the final third but even then that's only 2, not 3 like Müller who has Ribery, Robben (+ Costa, Coman) and Lewandowski.


Müller plays on the wing all the time. True, he cuts inside more since Pep came along, but still plays on the wing for Germany, and often enough drifts outside even with Bayern.
Not comparable to Benzema or Bale because those get to be the focal point of the attack, Müller is the only one mentioned who is an all-round team player who's probably not a striker.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:02 pm

@Harmonica wrote:Goals Against Period Top 4

Note: Period top 4, finished positions in Argentinian, Brazilian, Dutch, French, German, English, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish national leagues)
Note: Pele's national competitions, Taca Brazil 59-66, Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa 67-70, Brasileiro Serie A 71-74
Note: Includes cup and reagional league goals against period national league top 4
Note: Official games

103 Messi (04-16, 144 games, 0,72 gpg)
96 C.Ronaldo (02-16, 179 games, 0,54 gpg)
62 Pele (59-74, 103 games, 0,60 gpg)
59 G.Müller (65-79, 114 games, 0,52 gpg)
31 T.Müller (08-16, 81 games, 0,38 gpg)


Messi - focal point of the attack.
C. Ronaldo - focal point of the attack.
Pele - actual striker
G. Müller - actual striker
T. Müller - only midfielder in the list.

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Post by Lucifer on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:06 pm

Viva Thumbs up
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Post by VivaStPauli on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:09 pm

BTW all the while keeping in mind I don't think Müller is the #1 in the world.
I just think counting goals is probably not the best method to compare strikers to midfielders/wingers.

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