Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

That's part of the story, but not the entirety of it.

That said, kudos for backing it up with some stats. God knows we need more fact based statements these days.

Arsenal - Liverpool 3-4
Spurs - Liverpool 1-1
Chelsea - Liverpool 1-2
Liverpool - Man United 0-0
Liverpool - Man City 1-0
Man United - Liverpool 1-1
Liverpool - Chelsea 1-1
Liverpool - Tottenham 2-0
Liverpool - Arsenal 3-1

Games played (games newly added in red)
Arsenal - Liverpool 3-4
Spurs - Liverpool 1-1
Man United - Man City 1-2
Chelsea - Liverpool 1-2
Arsenal - Chelsea 3-0
Spurs - City 2-0
Liverpool - Man United 0-0
Chelsea - Man United 4-0
Arsenal - Tottenham 1-1
Man United - Arsenal 1-1
Chelsea - Tottenham 2-1
Man City - Chelsea 1-3
Man United - Tottenham 1-0
Man City - Arsenal 2:1
Liverpool - Man City 1-0
Tottenham - Chelsea 2-0
Man United - Liverpool 1-1
Man City - Tottenham 2-2
Liverpool - Chelsea 1-1
Chelsea - Arsenal 3-1
Liverpool - Tottenham 2-0
Liverpool - Arsenal 3-1
Man City - Liverpool 1-1


Standings
Klopp 20 points 10 games
Conte 13 points 8 games
Poch 9 points 8 games
Pep 8 points 7 games
Jose 6 points 6 games
Wenger 5 points 7 games


Standings translated into a points per game table
1. Klopp   2 ppg
2. Conte  1.625 ppg
3. Pep   1.143 ppg
4. Poch 1.125 ppg
5. José 1 ppg
6. Wenger 0.714 ppg

---

Cup Matches

Liverpool vs Tottenham 2-1 (EFL cup last 16)
Man United - Man City 1-0 (" " " ")
Chelsea - Man United 1-0 (FA Cup quarter final)

Conte 1 win 1 game
Klopp 1 win 1 game
José 1 win 1 loss 2 games
Pep 0 wins 1 game
Poch 0 wins 1 game

Klopp has won this.

He's played all games and cannot get caught anymore.
He has also remained UNDEFEATED.

Hell, he hasn't lost against top 10 opposition. All his losses came against relegation fodder.
Borderline moronic if you think about it.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Klopp has won this.

He's played all games and cannot get caught anymore.
He has also remained UNDEFEATED.

Hell, he hasn't lost against top 10 opposition. All his losses came against relegation fodder.
Borderline moronic if you think about it.

and that is why I have a mini rant now and then

That isn't necessarily Klopp's fault though is it? If you want to consistently beat the weaker teams you need a strong squad which Liverpool right now doesn't have.

Klopp is the GOAT, no doubt about it.

How do you consistently beat the top opposition with a weak squad though?

It's tactics more than personnel

Its being an idiot is what it is

No amount of tactics can make Origi look good so I say personnel. And definitely a mental thing.

Doc wrote:No amount of tactics can make Origi look good so I say personnel. And definitely a mental thing.

This post makes zero sense in the context of beating shittier teams. It has nothing to do with Origi. Kid barely gets any game time

If anything our wannabe big shots like Firmino, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Lovren, Clyne, Milner, Can and Coutinho since his injury at fault for this. They shit the bed against relegation fodder. It seems it's easier for them to raise their games in bigger matches but when we need flat track bullies they all go back to being shit.  

Mane and Matip are the only two that can hold their heads up.

It's quite obvious, to be honest. There's just not enough quality in our starting XI.

We have serviceable players like Lallana, Firmino, and Wijnaldum acting like they are superstars just because they put in a performance against big teams where there is space to a land a spaceship on the pitch.  

These players are complimentary players. You need to have a team spine and key players first and then build around that with these complimentary guys like Firmino, Lallana, Wijnaldum, etc.

Klopp is not at fault. It's the exact same squad David Brent had except for his 2 big additions in Mane and Matip who have become our key players.

This summer we will hopefully sign more quality even if it's only 2 or 3 guys. It will help significantly.

Don't call me James wrote:

Doc wrote:No amount of tactics can make Origi look good so I say personnel. And definitely a mental thing.

This post makes zero sense in the context of beating shittier teams. It has nothing to do with Origi. Kid barely gets any game time

If anything our wannabe big shots like Firmino, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Lovren, Clyne, Milner, Can and Coutinho since his injury at fault for this. They shit the bed against relegation fodder. It seems it's easier for them to raise their games in bigger matches but when we need flat track bullies they all go back to being shit.  

Mane and Matip are the only two that can hold their heads up.

It's quite obvious, to be honest. There's just not enough quality in our starting XI.

We have serviceable players like Lallana, Firmino, and Wijnaldum acting like they are superstars just because they put in a performance against big teams where there is space to a land a spaceship on the pitch.  

These players are complimentary players. You need to have a team spine and key players first and then build around that with these complimentary guys like Firmino, Lallana, Wijnaldum, etc.

Klopp is not at fault. It's the exact same squad David Brent had except for his 2 big additions in Mane and Matip who have become our key players.

This summer we will hopefully sign more quality even if it's only 2 or 3 guys. It will help significantly.

klopp is at fault for our bad defending. the shit teams all use the same tactics against us to get a result and we play into there hands time and time again. our defending from set plays is a joke tbh. the goals we give away from losing the 2nd ball is also a joke. these are things that with work on the training pitch can improve

Don't call me James wrote:

Doc wrote:No amount of tactics can make Origi look good so I say personnel. And definitely a mental thing.

A bag of long talk

You went to the same school Chad learn to read I see so allow me to break down my complex statement to you.

No amount of tactics can help Origi look good...

A dig at Origi because I can't stand his average ways. The tactics part was in response to those who say it is tactics is the reason Klopp's Liverpool keeps dropping points to mid and below mid table teams.

...so I say it is personnel...

Literally, what you wrote is just a much longer version of me saying it's the personnel of the club i.e the players.

...And definitely a mental thing

Self explanatory. Liverpool players seem to be able to rise to the bigger occasion due to, I guess, whatever. When they are playing in more humble matches, they definitely play with less confidence and conviction of their abilities.

There are any number of reasons a team might occasionally give up points to relegation fodder yet also occasionally knock off the best of the best. I've seen Spurs do it with Chelsea, and I'm sure at some point they've dropped points this season to some absolutely dire teams. That's fine, I'm alright with that.

To do it at the consistent basis that happens to Liverpool? You lot really think it's the players who can mentally perform to another level against top opposition and then lose to Sunderland? Mind, like I said, every once in a while is ok, but this is consistently.

Klopp has to take some of the blame and for sure tactics are a part of it.

To be sure, Liverpool needs better players, but if you make the case to me that Liverpool should be getting the results against the shit teams they're getting the results they are against...Nah. I don't think anyone can make that argument. Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho are good enough to put the likes of Burnley and Crystal palace to the sword and there is no excuse to be dropping as many points to the teams that they are.

CBarca wrote:There are any number of reasons a team might occasionally give up points to relegation fodder yet also occasionally knock off the best of the best. I've seen Spurs do it with Chelsea, and I'm sure at some point they've dropped points this season to some absolutely dire teams. That's fine, I'm alright with that.

To do it at the consistent basis that happens to Liverpool? You lot really think it's the players who can mentally perform to another level against top opposition and then lose to Sunderland? Mind, like I said, every once in a while is ok, but this is consistently.

Klopp has to take some of the blame and for sure tactics are a part of it.

To be sure, Liverpool needs better players, but if you make the case to me that Liverpool should be getting the results against the shit teams they're getting the results they are against...Nah. I don't think anyone can make that argument. Lallana, Firmino, Coutinho are good enough to put the likes of Burnley and Crystal palace to the sword and there is no excuse to be dropping as many points to the teams that they are.

You mention Lallana, Firmino and Coutinho but do these players consistently play at the level that they are supposed to be? I only see it in big games where Liverpool take full advantage of the "underdog" mentality which you can't use against the Burnley's and Bournemouth's. In these games you need to show your quality because they will outfight you and it's them who are the underdogs.

An example is Wenger's Arsenal, who is a mediocre team tactically but is a well known flat track bully which is how they finish in the top 4 all the time. Arsenal at their best beat these teams with ease because it's either Alexis or Özil, or Cazorla who steps up and makes the difference individually. While Lallana, Firmino and to a lesser extent Coutinho also do it sometimes but at other times they all are unable to make difference in the same game.

FINAL UPDATE (excluding cup games)

Games played (games newly added in red)
Arsenal - Liverpool 3-4
Spurs - Liverpool 1-1
Man United - Man City 1-2
Chelsea - Liverpool 1-2
Arsenal - Chelsea 3-0
Spurs - City 2-0
Liverpool - Man United 0-0
Chelsea - Man United 4-0
Arsenal - Tottenham 1-1
Man United - Arsenal 1-1
Chelsea - Tottenham 2-1
Man City - Chelsea 1-3
Man United - Tottenham 1-0
Man City - Arsenal 2:1
Liverpool - Man City 1-0
Tottenham - Chelsea 2-0
Man United - Liverpool 1-1
Man City - Tottenham 2-2
Liverpool - Chelsea 1-1
Chelsea - Arsenal 3-1
Liverpool - Tottenham 2-0
Liverpool - Arsenal 3-1
Man City - Liverpool 1-1
Arsenal - Man City 2-2
Chelsea - Man City 2-1
Man United - Chelsea 2-0
Man City - Man United 0-0
Tottenham - Arsenal 2-0
Arsenal - Man United 2-0
Tottenham - Man United 2-1



Final Standings
Klopp 20 points 10 games
Conte 16 points 10 games
Poch 15 points 10 games
Jose 10 points 10 games
Pep 10 points 10 games
Wenger 9 points 10 games


Final points per game table
1. Klopp   2 ppg
2. Conte  1.6 ppg
3. Poch 1.5 ppg
4. José 1 ppg
    Pep   1 ppg
6. Wenger 0.9 ppg


Summary:
Klopp wins the Managerial Death Match with an amazing big game record, Conte and Poch with average to decent big game records, both Pep and José with rather poor big game records and Wenger the worst, albeit only slightly worse than Pep and José.

Bonus Update: Cup Matches


Games played (games newly added in red)
Liverpool vs Tottenham  2-1 (EFL cup last 16)
Man United - Man City  1-0  (" " " ")
Chelsea - Man United 1-0  (FA Cup quarter final)
Chelsea vs Tottenham 4:2 (FA cup semi)
Arsenal vs Man City 2-1 (" " ")
Arsenal vs Chelsea 2-1 (FA Cup Final)

Table

1. Wenger 2 wins 2 games
2. Conte 2 wins 3 games
3. Klopp 1 win 1 game
4. José  1 win 2 games
5. Pep 0 wins 2 games
   Poch 0 wins 2 games

Arsene Wenger owns the FA Cup, the oldest and most honorary club football competition in the world.

When is he finally going to be knighted?

We are going to have Rafa next season. Seven great managers slugging it out.

Conte Vs Mourinho today

No holds barred

The build up/storyline has been amazing

Will the match live up to expectations ?

S wrote:Conte Vs Mourinho today

No holds barred

The build up/storyline has been amazing

Will the match live up to expectations ?

This is last season's thread.

Final Standing: 2018-19

Pep Guardiola: 8-1-1-25
Jürgen Klopp: 5-4-1-19
Unai Emery: 3-3-4-12
Maurizio Sarri: 3-3-4-12
Mauricio Pochettino: 2-1-7-7
Ole Gunnar Solskjær: 1-3-2-6
José Mourinho: 0-1-3-1