De Bruyne is the worst 80M€ player out there

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Post by Gil on Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:48 pm

KDB or Pogba?

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Post by RealGunner on Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:49 pm

KDB
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Post by Valkyrja on Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:49 pm

KDB

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Post by Gil on Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:54 pm

@RealGunner wrote:KDB

@Valkyrja wrote:KDB


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Post by Curtinho on Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:55 pm

Also give me KDB over Pogba right now. We'll see if Pogba can 'fulfill his potential'.

@Curtinho wrote:Yep. That's the thing when I try to explain to others why I like KdB better than Hazard. Hazard is flashy, he is smart and he opens up a lot of space but KdB is direct, intelligent and I find makes much more of the ball when he has it and when he's involved in the play.

Look at his body of work and not one game and anyone can see in today's day and age of endless amounts of money that if you can afford to buy him, then you buy him. He would likely start in any team in the world.

:coffee:

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Post by Valkyrja on Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:39 pm

@Gil wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:KDB

@Valkyrja wrote:KDB


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Hazard is better than KDB though

Hazard > KDB > Pogboom

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Post by Curtinho on Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:40 pm

KdB has outperformed Hazard for 2 years now for club and country. Hard to say that Hazard is better at this point.

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Post by S on Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:57 pm

@Gil wrote:KDB or Pogba?


KDB

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Post by Gil on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:05 pm

Whole lot of recency bias on this forum. Pogboom will make you lot eat your words once he's finally played in his favoured position (similar to KDB's role under Pep).

Just need a Rooney injury.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:06 pm

@Curtinho wrote:KdB has outperformed Hazard for 2 years now for club and country. Hard to say that Hazard is better at this point.


I agree fully. I would add though that at the Euros this summer, De Bruyne was even more dissapointing than Hazard. Hazard did better.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:07 pm

@Curtinho wrote:KdB has outperformed Hazard for 2 years now for club and country. Hard to say that Hazard is better at this point.


Yep.

I do think Hazard is more gifted before Gil goes crazy Laughing

But as i have said many times he needs to start showing it a lot more often.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:09 pm

@Gil wrote:Whole lot of recency bias on this forum. Pogboom will make you lot eat your words once he's finally played in his favoured position (similar to KDB's role under Pep).

Just need a Rooney injury.


Do you trust Mourinho to do that though? because i don't.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:12 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Curtinho wrote:KdB has outperformed Hazard for 2 years now for club and country. Hard to say that Hazard is better at this point.


Yep.

I do think Hazard is more gifted before Gil goes crazy Laughing

But as i have said many times he needs to start showing it a lot more often.


gifted, or talented, is such a misused word tbh.

gifted for what? If we're talking about passing, scoring and assisting, De bruyne is obviously far more gifted than Hazard to do that.

The relation between 'talent' and end product in Hazard has reached truly farcical misproportions.

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Post by Gil on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:12 pm

@Curtinho wrote:KdB has outperformed Hazard for 2 years now for club and country. Hard to say that Hazard is better at this point.


No he hasn't.

Hazard was easily superior at the Euros and has been better since the World Cup ended. That's a myth.

De Bruyne was better last season of course but Hazard was better every year before that.
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Post by Gil on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:15 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Gil wrote:Whole lot of recency bias on this forum. Pogboom will make you lot eat your words once he's finally played in his favoured position (similar to KDB's role under Pep).

Just need a Rooney injury.


Do you trust Mourinho to do that though? because i don't.


Some of his former teams have been built around the likes of Lampard, Sneijder, Deco & Ozil. Only a matter of time before it's Pogba's team.

Feel like he's just biding his team with Rooney. He'll be dropped soon enough.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:16 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Curtinho wrote:KdB has outperformed Hazard for 2 years now for club and country. Hard to say that Hazard is better at this point.


Yep.

I do think Hazard is more gifted before Gil goes crazy Laughing

But as i have said many times he needs to start showing it a lot more often.


gifted, or talented, is such a misused word tbh.

gifted for what? If we're talking about passing, scoring and assisting, De bruyne is obviously far more gifted than Hazard to do that.

The relation between 'talent' and end product in Hazard has reached truly farcical misproportions.


You know what i mean Laughing

He has more offensive skills than De Bruyne has, he just doesn't show it enough where as De Bruyne is consistently effective.

Which is what matters.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:18 pm

@Gil wrote:
@Curtinho wrote:KdB has outperformed Hazard for 2 years now for club and country. Hard to say that Hazard is better at this point.


No he hasn't.

Hazard was easily superior at the Euros and has been better since the World Cup ended. That's a myth.

De Bruyne was better last season of course but Hazard was better every year before that.


de bruyne was already far superior in 14/15. Like not even close.
Just at that time the thought of De Boss being the better between the two seemed so foreign still, with all the hype arounf Hazard, with performance in Bundesliga not acknowledged either, that it fell under the radar.

But actually, not even close. Hazard's performances have been developing parallel to Götze's. At that rate they'll finish their career outside of the top 5 leagues.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:20 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:


Yep.

I do think Hazard is more gifted before Gil goes crazy Laughing

But as i have said many times he needs to start showing it a lot more often.


gifted, or talented, is such a misused word tbh.

gifted for what? If we're talking about passing, scoring and assisting, De bruyne is obviously far more gifted than Hazard to do that.

The relation between 'talent' and end product in Hazard has reached truly farcical misproportions.


You know what i mean Laughing

He has more offensive skills than De Bruyne has, he just doesn't show it enough where as De Bruyne is consistently effective.

Which is what matters.


No I don't  know what you mean?

How on earth does he have more "offensive skills"?
At least if you consider scoring and assisting as 'offensive skills' asI assume one should.

Absurd statement, and typical for not seeing the forest for the trees.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:25 pm

Ok.

He's a better passer, he has better technique, he's a better dribbler, he's arguably more explosive and so on.

De Bruyne is a much better at shooting, crossing and overall just better at being effective. He's figured how to create legitimate danger consistently which is why his stats are so good.

But he doesn't have some of the talent Hazard does, Hazard just doesn't show consistently and mould it all together into an effective and dangerous performer each week so it's meaningless.

Seriously you're making too much of this Laughing The fact i repeatedly said De Bruyne is better and criticized Hazard more than most on here should tell you how i feel.
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Post by S on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:26 pm

The reason I choose KDB over Pogba is that he gives a certain level of guarantee to consistently produce goals and assists which Pogba doesn't yet.

And considering Pogba's price tag, he'll ultimately be judged on his statistics. So anyone giving excuses like ' he's a deep midfielder' or 'he's a b2b midfielder' can go *bleep* themselves tbh.
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Post by Lucifer on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:29 pm

At this point Surag, we won't be surprised if u choose a rock over Pogba.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:33 pm

@S wrote:The reason I choose KDB over Pogba is that he gives a certain level of guarantee to consistently produce goals and assists which Pogba doesn't yet.

And considering Pogba's price tag, he'll ultimately be judged on his statistics. So anyone giving excuses like ' he's a deep midfielder' or 'he's a b2b midfielder' can go *bleep* themselves tbh.


Why does that matter though? as long as he's effective and ultimately a reason for a successful Man Yoo team it won't matter.

Also it doesn't matter what the perception of him is in relation to stats, if you think he's better or worse etc etc that's all that matters really.

I personally don't hold him to that, as long as he plays to what i expect of him, is effective and makes the team successful then to me the rest doesn't matter.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:34 pm

What kind of retarded question is "KDB or Pogba" anyway? As if they were anywhere similar player? Sugar please. Pull yourself together.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:39 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Ok.

He's a better passer, he has better technique, he's a better dribbler, he's arguably more explosive and so on.

De Bruyne is a much better at shooting, crossing and overall just better at being effective. He's figured how to create legitimate danger consistently which is why his stats are so good.

But he doesn't have some of the talent Hazard does, Hazard just doesn't show consistently and mould it all together into an effective and dangerous performer each week so it's meaningless.

Seriously you're making too much of this Laughing The fact i repeatedly said De Bruyne is better and criticized Hazard more than most on here should tell you how i feel.


I'm making so much out of this because not just you, but many people constantly use the word 'talent' exclusively for a very limited area of skill - basically dribbling and close control.

Then Müller is "not that talented", De Bruyne is "not that talented" etc pp.

You have players who dribble diagonally backwards into their half, make a few stepovers and then pass into no man's land, but apparently they are hugely talented.

Why isn't having a brain considered a talent? Why isn't decision making a talent? Why isn't having a killer instinct a talent? Why isn't having tactical and positional intelligence a talent?

'Hazard has more offensive skills' Laughing

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Post by Curtinho on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:48 pm

I've said it a million times, but part of the problem is that people think that the most talented players are the ones that dribble most or are the flashiest. This isn't that surprising since most people when watching a soccer game are paying attention only to the person on the ball, and it's not like they rewind and re-watch or whatever to see how everything is moving around them. That's part of why people just see great dribblers and assume they're great players.

Most people rate Ronaldo simply for his goalscoring and think of nothing else at this point. They see the goals he scores and consider him a pure poacher. They don't look at his movement, the way he draws defenders out or consistently slips them, or his really innocuous link-up at times and think 'well he's not putting in a through ball, or dribbling 5 players, so he's one dimensional'. People don't look at space, or movement off the ball very much unless it's a blatant scoring opportunity. 'He's just good at being in the right place at the right time that's why he scores so much' -- do you know how hard it is to do that? How well you have to read the game? It's not even just knowing where the ball is going to be, but knowing what route to take, how to avoid being tracked, getting the right step or right path in on the defender, etc. etc. and then of course finishing on top of it all...

Hazard is better on the ball than KdB (better dribbler, better at protecting the ball, better acceleration), but that's about the limit of where he's more effective, IMO.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:53 pm

Why are you telling me this like i don't know Hans lol?

I'm not even saying De Bruyne isn't talented that would be ridiculous, i'm just saying Hazard has a lot of skills that De Bruyne doesn't but as of yet he hasn't figured how to hone those skills into being a consistent and effective footballer.

That's it lol, i even said De Bruyne is better lol and have been for two years.
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